AB acquired Wicked Weed

[rodwha]

And I'm sure that Sierra Nevada moving to Ashville had no impact on Wicked Weed's market share potential at all. I mean, they're craft...

Fair competition is not even remotely the same thing. You're kidding, right?

 

[bob1852]

Fair competition is not even remotely the same thing. You're kidding, right?

Were the tax breaks that NC gave to Sierra Nevada fair?

 

[rodwha]

I don't know anything about that.

For the local businesses they no doubt feel it unfair. For the state of NC bringing in that much revinue and business seemed worth it I suppose.

But tax breaks aren't even remotely similar to the crap that AB/InBev does, including the illegal things.

 

[bob1852]

I don't know anything about that.

For the local businesses they no doubt feel it unfair. For the state of NC bringing in that much revinue and business seemed worth it I suppose.

But tax breaks aren't even remotely similar to the crap that AB/InBev does, including the illegal things.

It's all the same. It's busine$$....

 

[applescrap]

Ab hop farm. Guess you can do a tour. Considering the mass production they do a pretty good job, really. I mean better than McDonalds.

http://brewpublic.com/beer-education/a-visit-to-elk-mountain-farms-the-worlds-largest-hop-farm/

 

[bob1852]

Ab hop farm. Guess you can do a tour. Considering the mass production they do a pretty good job, really. I mean better than McDonalds.

http://brewpublic.com/beer-education/a-visit-to-elk-mountain-farms-the-worlds-largest-hop-farm/

Just think about how much revenue and how many jobs that farm brings to the local community.

Nevermind, it's a bad thing because it's owned by InBev....

 

[applescrap]

This article exemplifies that. Ab saved that farm, brought it to life and gave the capital that goose needed for improvements according to quotes from the Brewers and the farmers. But what would they know. The only thing that matters is some hipster blog.

The 200,000 people that ab employs arent "locals" anywhere? If some of you are lucky they might all lose their jobs. Then they could go volunteer for the brewmaster/owner down the street.


http://goodbeerhunting.com/blog/201...nd-goose-island-bring-a-hop-farm-back-to-life

 

[bob1852]

Is it okay to own Sam Adams stock since they're "craft" but not InBev stock?

 

[rodwha]

It's all the same. It's busine$$....

It's not even remotely similar whatsoever actually, especially when you throw in the illegal crap they pull. The other thing is a business who decidedly chose to work a certain way whereas in the other example it's a government agency dropping a carrot in front of them. Not even remotely similar...

 

[rodwha]

Is it okay to own Sam Adams stock since they're "craft" but not InBev stock?

Not because they are craft but because they don't have the same despicable business practices. And more so if you know anything about Mr Koch. But these things are obviously lost on the likes of you two.

As I've said several times now, though it doesn't seem to sink in, it's not about craft, local, or small business for me. It's the BUSINESS PRACTICES.

 

[rodwha]

Duplicate

 

[bob1852]

And more so if you know anything about Mr Koch.

You mean this guy?

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/restaurants/article/2015/01/05/jim-koch-sam-adams-beer/

Staring at the beer menu, Koch began to criticize the selection. More than half of it, he said, wasn’t worthy of being served—inadvertently insulting the establishment’s owner, who unbeknownst to Koch was sitting next to him. Then Koch interrogated the beer manager about the offerings. Unsatisfied with the answers, Koch complained about the beers so intensely that an employee at the bar teared up. Koch rose from his seat and walked into the keg room, where he started checking freshness dates on his competitors’ kegs.

Sounds like a really friendly guy...

 

[RevKev]

You mean this guy?

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/restaurants/article/2015/01/05/jim-koch-sam-adams-beer/

Sounds like a really friendly guy...

Also uses artificial flavors in his beers. Disgusting. But yeah I don't know if he ever responded to that article did he?

 

[rodwha]

You mean this guy?

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/restaurants/article/2015/01/05/jim-koch-sam-adams-beer/



Sounds like a really friendly guy...

That's the one it would seem.

This article certainly shows, taking it at face value which I am, that he can be a ****** apparently. However we don't know what beers he was talking about. He certainly knows beer and if his issue was that the beer was old he may know what he's talking about.

However it's what he's done for his fellow craft beer brewers when they couldn't get hops that I was mostly speaking of. Unlike what many would have done he sold his excess at cost so they could make a product to sell.

I only read maybe half of the article and will finish it, but I'd certainly like to know the particulars. I must say I have a hard time believing an employee teared up. But then I wasn't there and have no idea who it was they are talking about.

 

[rodwha]

I find most of their beer a bit mediocre myself and don't buy it very often at all. Their Boston Lager is good for what it is but I prefer other things usually.

Their Rebel IPA was a joke as it didn't hardly resemble a west coast IPA whatsoever, though they've fixed it. I still don't rate it that highly though. It's not bad but it's not as good as some others who, to me, just put more character into it.

Their Winter Lager was excellent many years back. But it dropped and wasn't all that for a few years and I've yet to try it again.

Maybe I should buy a sampler to see what I think these days.

 

[bob1852]

I find most of their beer a bit mediocre myself and don't buy it very often at all. Their Boston Lager is good for what it is but I prefer other things usually.

Their Rebel IPA was a joke as it didn't hardly resemble a west coast IPA whatsoever, though they've fixed it. I still don't rate it that highly though. It's not bad but it's not as good as some others who, to me, just put more character into it.

Their Winter Lager was excellent many years back. But it dropped and wasn't all that for a few years and I've yet to try it again.

Maybe I should buy a sampler to see what I think these days.

I'd rather drink 10 Barrel and Elysian than Sam Adams.

 

[rodwha]

I'd rather drink 10 Barrel and Elysian than Sam Adams.

I'd drink water before I gave AB/InBev a dime. And Sam Adams has something to offer that's better than just water.

I noticed this article at the end of the one you posted a link for:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/resta...assachusetts-abcc-anheuser-busch-pay-to-play/

Seems AB/InBev was found guilty for illegal practices. I don't support that sort of thing. It's unethical. Maybe some people don't have an issue with that. Maybe it's just day to day stuff for them. Not me. I hope they are prosecuted to the fullest extreme myself.

*EDIT*
I misspoke. They haven't been found guilty yet. If they are I hope they are prosecuted. Seeing what they've done in the past I highly doubt they are innocent.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I'm not remotely some industry expert but I have been "in the industry" for a few years now and can tell you that the ENTIRE industry (just like almost every other industry) is shady as fcku. InBev is looked at as the shadiest, simply because they're the biggest. Personally, I think they deserve the title but you can bet your house every single move they make (like the pay-to-play stuff mentioned in that article) is thought out, analyzed and ultimately done to help the company.

This notion that "independent craft brewers" are somehow above doing anything like what InBev does is brutally naive.

For WW specifically... and I was saying this before... I wish breweries would just call it like it is. "They backed massive dumptrucks of cash up and buried us in $100 bills!!!" And then anyone (ok, 99.99999% of the population), who criticizes THAT is a huge freakin hypocrite.

If people want to be bummed out that WW might lose some of it's "local feel"... i think that's valid. Revenue and profits are now going to foreign shareholders opposed to "back into the community"... and that's a real thing. If people want to be be bummed out that the beer might change... that's valid. I don't know that these takeovers have a good track record for the beer staying true to its original form.

But that said, I don't get the massive backlash and hate for "selling out".

 

[jmark]

The guys from 'The Full Pint' said it best on their podcast... WW was still one of the "cool kids" when it was acquired so now the hipsters (my words) are all up in arms. I get the ABI position and I understand the WW owners doing what they did. That being said, I don't buy ABI products due to their shady business practices, but at the same time I'm not going to lose a wink of sleep over it all (and nor will ABI!)

 

[h22lude]

Ab hop farm. Guess you can do a tour. Considering the mass production they do a pretty good job, really. I mean better than McDonalds.

http://brewpublic.com/beer-education/a-visit-to-elk-mountain-farms-the-worlds-largest-hop-farm/

It is good they saved a hop farm but they also bought another on that has rights to South African hops and stopped selling those hops to distributors. That means small local breweries can no longer get those hops. Some may think it is good for inbev to buy these small farms but it does really hurt the small guy. They buy some of the bigger farms, no all of a sudden breweries can't get the hops they want.

 

[bleme]

I think all the outrage over the SA hops is pretty silly. If I crossbred hops till I got one I liked, I could sell that to whomever I wanted. SABMiller chose to sell it to ABI because they offered the most. If you don't like it, go cross-breed your own hops. ABI can't stop you.

People who think they have a right to tell ABI what they should do with their own hops are communists, in the strictest since of the word. I would rather not live in a place where the crowd with pitchforks gets to bully their way to whatever they want.

 

[h22lude]

I think all the outrage over the SA hops is pretty silly. If I crossbred hops till I got one I liked, I could sell that to whomever I wanted. SABMiller chose to sell it to ABI because they offered the most. If you don't like it, go cross-breed your own hops. ABI can't stop you.

People who think they have a right to tell ABI what they should do with their own hops are communists, in the strictest since of the word. I would rather not live in a place where the crowd with pitchforks gets to bully their way to whatever they want.

Read your last sentence. Now change "the crowd with pitchforks" to Inbev. If you don't see how this is a problem, you have no idea the power Inbev has.

Not one person is telling Inbev what to do. These breweries had access to a unique hop that they liked to use. InBev comes in, buys the farm and stops distribution. Now these breweries can't brew that beer unless they find a very similar hop. It was very easy for inbev to stop distribution of these hops. If you think that is the only ingredient this will happen to, you are crazy. InBev can limit the ingredients small breweries use by buying farms and stopping distribution or raise the price on the ingredients making it more expensive for small breweries to brew beer.

 

[bleme]

Read your last sentence. Now change "the crowd with pitchforks" to Inbev. If you don't see how this is a problem, you have no idea the power Inbev has.

Not one person is telling Inbev what to do. These breweries had access to a unique hop that they liked to use. InBev comes in, buys the farm and stops distribution. Now these breweries can't brew that beer unless they find a very similar hop. It was very easy for inbev to stop distribution of these hops. If you think that is the only ingredient this will happen to, you are crazy. InBev can limit the ingredients small breweries use by buying farms and stopping distribution or raise the price on the ingredients making it more expensive for small breweries to brew beer.

A local brewpub has a homebrew contest every year. The winner gets to brew their beer on the brewpub's system and get it on tap. A few years ago an IPA won but the brewpub's owner couldn't make it because he couldn't get that much Citra. That's life. Suck it up and move on. Boycotting Hops breeding Company because they won't sell you rhizomes is silly.

BTW, the breweries that used SA hops knew the risk. They were buying hops from *gasp* SABMiller and nobody boycotted them. They make a new beer every week so not making THAT beer means nothing.

 

[rodwha]

I'm not remotely some industry expert but I have been "in the industry" for a few years now and can tell you that the ENTIRE industry (just like almost every other industry) is shady as fcku. InBev is looked at as the shadiest, simply because they're the biggest. Personally, I think they deserve the title but you can bet your house every single move they make (like the pay-to-play stuff mentioned in that article) is thought out, analyzed and ultimately done to help the company.

This notion that "independent craft brewers" are somehow above doing anything like what InBev does is brutally naive.

For WW specifically... and I was saying this before... I wish breweries would just call it like it is. "They backed massive dumptrucks of cash up and buried us in $100 bills!!!" And then anyone (ok, 99.99999% of the population), who criticizes THAT is a huge freakin hypocrite.

If people want to be bummed out that WW might lose some of it's "local feel"... i think that's valid. Revenue and profits are now going to foreign shareholders opposed to "back into the community"... and that's a real thing. If people want to be be bummed out that the beer might change... that's valid. I don't know that these takeovers have a good track record for the beer staying true to its original form.

But that said, I don't get the massive backlash and hate for "selling out".

It wouldn't surprise me much if some of the little guys, especially just getting started where they have to begin creating some revinue to pay for that shiny equipment and building or else close the doors and accept a huge debt have given favors or whatnot, though I doubt they'd have the funds available for the type of pay-to-play mentioned.

And the only people they really compete with is other small breweries. It's not as though they've gone in and "bought" the taps to keep AB/InBev out. The ones doing that see what they do and don't want their beer to begin with or are catering to those who only want craft like our fine younger Americans (and me in my mid 40's).

But to say they are all crooked and no different than AB/InBev is quite a stretch. SABMiller and MolsenCoors sure haven't been mentioned in the same light. In fact no one else has. Not like them.

 

[rodwha]

A local brewpub has a homebrew contest every year. The winner gets to brew their beer on the brewpub's system and get it on tap. A few years ago an IPA won but the brewpub's owner couldn't make it because he couldn't get that much Citra. That's life. Suck it up and move on. Boycotting Hops breeding Company because they won't sell you rhizomes is silly.

BTW, the breweries that used SA hops knew the risk. They were buying hops from *gasp* SABMiller and nobody boycotted them. They make a new beer every week so not making THAT beer means nothing.

Look at the difference in business practice between SABMiller and AB/InBev...

 

[rodwha]

SABMiller was making money on those excess hops doing what any business would do. AB/InBev bought it and is keeping it from those who used it keeping them from being able to brew those beers. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[Cape Brewing]

It wouldn't surprise me much if some of the little guys, especially just getting started where they have to begin creating some revinue to pay for that shiny equipment and building or else close the doors and accept a huge debt have given favors or whatnot, though I doubt they'd have the funds available for the type of pay-to-play mentioned.



And the only people they really compete with is other small breweries. It's not as though they've gone in and "bought" the taps to keep AB/InBev out. The ones doing that see what they do and don't want their beer to begin with or are catering to those who only want craft like our fine younger Americans (and me in my mid 40's).



But to say they are all crooked and no different than AB/InBev is quite a stretch. SABMiller and MolsenCoors sure haven't been mentioned in the same light. In fact no one else has. Not like them.

There are a lot more ways to be shady than just pay to play.

And no, not ALL breweries do shady things (that's not what I said) but the industry as a whole, top to bottom, is no where near this angelic altruistic bullshti image that people are painting it with.

 

[jmark]

SABMiller was making money on those excess hops doing what any business would do. AB/InBev bought it and is keeping it from those who used it keeping them from being able to brew those beers. BIG DIFFERENCE.

While I wouldn't buy an ABI product based on their lousy business practices, I fail to see that's an issue here. In prior years, SAB kept what they needed and sold the EXCESS hops it had to other breweries. This year, apparently the crop was poor, so there were no excess hops to sell - and like SAB before them, they're keeping what they do have for themselves. That sounds like a pretty normal business decision.

Now start talking about all the 'pay-to-play' crap that ABI does and that's a real issue to worry about.

 

[Jim311]

Cool we're at 30 pages. If this puts Pernicious in every gas station in the US then I'm on board.



Anyway, this sucks but you guys know you can always patronize another brewery right? There will always be a microbrewer in Asheville who isn't owned by AB.

 

[rodwha]

There are a lot more ways to be shady than just pay to play.

And no, not ALL breweries do shady things (that's not what I said) but the industry as a whole, top to bottom, is no where near this angelic altruistic bullshti image that people are painting it with.

I'm not sure anyone is painting them as angelic. However it seems pretty clear that AB/InBev is at the tip top by a large margin into what's shady for the business.