Poindexter
Well-Known Member
That would be me. I have been a Registered Nurse for going on eleven years now. When I say a room is clean enough to perform an appendectomy I do mean it. My brew room is not that clean. I don't intend for this post to be about products. I am starting this thread to get people thinking about process.
I have seen a couple threads lately that are clearly sanitation problems.
Here is the Cliffs version of the Cliff's version:
1. sanitizers don't clean and cleaners do not sanitize.
Here is the Cliff's version: No sanitizer can sanitize under dirt that was supposed to be scrubbed off in the previous step.
So I got that off my chest.
Autoclave:
EDIT: This item is under review. Under discussion my dated information about bleach contact time has proven to be incorrect, so while I am researching that i am reviewing this too.
Lots of you have autoclaves at home. Just push the 'hot dry' button on your dishwasher. When the cycle is complete the interior of your dishwasher might be surgically sterile, unless you got some odd shaped something with standing water. If the stuff in the dishwasher is arranged so water can drain, and everything is dry, then everything is sterile when you reach for the door latch.
The moment you open the door to the dishwasher, it isn't sterile in there anymore. Are you hands surgically scrubbed? Are you wearing a mask? Is there a nearby UV light bulb to kill off airborne bacteria? Are you wearing a sterile gown?
The good news is whatever may have contaminated your last batch is dead now, assuming everything can drain and is dry.
The final solution:
EDIT: under dicussion this proves to be dated information. Most things will die instantly. The toxic protein that causes botulism will survive up to 15 minutes in conatct with 10% bleach.
I mentioned above I don't mean for this to be about products. If you are going along brewing good beer batch after batch you are obviously doing fine. For the folks struggling with off flavors and the like, there is one product you can buy without a prescription that will kill any and every micro-organism, instantly. On contact. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Bang, bang, you are dead.
It is a ten percent solution of household bleach in water. Not 12%, not 15%, not 8%, 10.00%. Actually, 9.9 to 10.1% is OK. Gram negative rods become protein scum on contact. Gram positive cocci become protein scum on contact. Mycobacterium sp., like tuberculosis and aviary influenza, dead on contact. HIV, Hepatitis A, B, C, E, and etc; non-viable protein scum, instantly, on contact. Prions like CJD or mad cow disease, non-viable instantly on contact. Whatever terrestrial microbug you care to name, instantly dead on contact. Bacterial spores from outer space - probably dead on contact.
So if you had an off flavor, and ran everything either through the DW on hot dry or sanitized the clean item in 10% bleach, and you still have an off flavor, one of three things happened:
1. you might have missed a spot.
2. there might be an infecting agent in your rinse water (you do have to rinse)
3. you might have re-introduced the contaminant through a process error
But it was one of those three things. Remember we don't need sterile equipment. All we need is equipment clean enough for the yeast we pitch to win the race for the food.
HTH somebody,
P
I have seen a couple threads lately that are clearly sanitation problems.
Here is the Cliffs version of the Cliff's version:
1. sanitizers don't clean and cleaners do not sanitize.
Here is the Cliff's version: No sanitizer can sanitize under dirt that was supposed to be scrubbed off in the previous step.
So I got that off my chest.
Autoclave:
EDIT: This item is under review. Under discussion my dated information about bleach contact time has proven to be incorrect, so while I am researching that i am reviewing this too.
Lots of you have autoclaves at home. Just push the 'hot dry' button on your dishwasher. When the cycle is complete the interior of your dishwasher might be surgically sterile, unless you got some odd shaped something with standing water. If the stuff in the dishwasher is arranged so water can drain, and everything is dry, then everything is sterile when you reach for the door latch.
The moment you open the door to the dishwasher, it isn't sterile in there anymore. Are you hands surgically scrubbed? Are you wearing a mask? Is there a nearby UV light bulb to kill off airborne bacteria? Are you wearing a sterile gown?
The good news is whatever may have contaminated your last batch is dead now, assuming everything can drain and is dry.
The final solution:
EDIT: under dicussion this proves to be dated information. Most things will die instantly. The toxic protein that causes botulism will survive up to 15 minutes in conatct with 10% bleach.
I mentioned above I don't mean for this to be about products. If you are going along brewing good beer batch after batch you are obviously doing fine. For the folks struggling with off flavors and the like, there is one product you can buy without a prescription that will kill any and every micro-organism, instantly. On contact. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Bang, bang, you are dead.
It is a ten percent solution of household bleach in water. Not 12%, not 15%, not 8%, 10.00%. Actually, 9.9 to 10.1% is OK. Gram negative rods become protein scum on contact. Gram positive cocci become protein scum on contact. Mycobacterium sp., like tuberculosis and aviary influenza, dead on contact. HIV, Hepatitis A, B, C, E, and etc; non-viable protein scum, instantly, on contact. Prions like CJD or mad cow disease, non-viable instantly on contact. Whatever terrestrial microbug you care to name, instantly dead on contact. Bacterial spores from outer space - probably dead on contact.
So if you had an off flavor, and ran everything either through the DW on hot dry or sanitized the clean item in 10% bleach, and you still have an off flavor, one of three things happened:
1. you might have missed a spot.
2. there might be an infecting agent in your rinse water (you do have to rinse)
3. you might have re-introduced the contaminant through a process error
But it was one of those three things. Remember we don't need sterile equipment. All we need is equipment clean enough for the yeast we pitch to win the race for the food.
HTH somebody,
P