A pressing matter

[MajorDisaster]

Im new to homebrew and am suprised to see that all the recipes i see for country wine involve soaking instead of pressing/juicing whereas cider tends to rely on pure juice.
What im wondering is will i be missing out if i dont press but soak?

 

[MajorDisaster]

Also why do you only need a third of the ammount of dried vs fresh fruit?

 

[schoch79]

So glad you brought this up since I am new a wonder the same. I see a lot of fruit flavored wines...blackberry, kiwi, banana, strawberry, etc...that aren't 100% juice from those fruits. I mean if that is the standard why not just juice some apples and only use, lets say, 1 gallon of apple juice for a 5 gallon batch? I'm not saying that one way is better than the other but is the main reason just cost and the amount of fruit you would need? I cant imagine getting enough blackberries to make 5 gallons worth of juice.

 

[WVMJ]

Differences in the traditional way to handle each fruit. Apples dont like to give up their juice so you have to press them to be effecient though some people crush up crabs and make crabapple wine from them, thats because crabs have so much flavor and acid you can do that, but normal apples you got to crush and press. As for berries, who said you cant use 100% juice, if you can find a way to handle the acid levels nothing is stopping you from using 100% berry juice. It also depends on flavor intensity, 1 gal of apple juice in 5 gal of cider is lost, you wont ever taste it, but 100% elderberry juice is a bit much for most people. With berries they are usually frozen as they are picked until you get enough for a batch, then thawed and I think the best way is to them smush them up, not breaking up the seeds, adding pectinase and let it set overnight and you can either strain out the seeds and pulp being careful to not squeeze the bag to hard that lets more sediment out or you can ferment on the pulp depending on how long you want, like 3 days or longer than a week. You guys are searching for one way to process all fruit, there isnt one, you have to adapt to each fruit.

WVMJ

 

[schoch79]

Thanks, I guess that's where the experience of others comes into play. I don't mind going by someone elses recipe but for me being a beginner, and wine being a relatively concept, I would like to be able to experiment with something new if I wanted to and not have to think too much about how much fruit is actually needed to properly flavor the wine. I never really considered the acid content and things like that when it comes to the procedures of processing one fruit or the other for wine.

 

[Yooper]

You get great things from the whole fruit that you don't get with just juice. For example, with chokecherries, you get some tannin and complex flavors from fermenting on the skins a few days.

Just like with wine grapes- red wines are fermented simply by crushing them. After a few days, THEN they are pressed. You want the juice out of the fruit, of course, but you also get other good things out of the entire fruit.

 

[MajorDisaster]

Thanks guys you people are great!

 

[MajorDisaster]

Can I have my fruit already in a straining bag then in primary or will it bother the yeast?

 

[Yooper]

Can I have my fruit already in a straining bag then in primary or will it bother the yeast?

I'm not sure what you asking. You can use straining bags for your fruit in primary- that is the point of using them.

 

[MajorDisaster]

Ah I see. Sorry, I'm a bit slow and misunderstand things a lot lol.

 

[jensmith]

General rule of thumb. 3-4 pounds of fruit per galleon of wine. Except apples and pears. Use as many as you can fit! Also except elderberries, Use less!
Dried fruit has its water removed. By weight use less then fresh, due to watter content.
Use the basic country fruit wines handbook of recipies or jackkellers web site for recipies.

I made two batches of rubarb wine side by side. One fermented on whole fruit one, one juiced after two days of thawing and peptic enzyme. The whole fruit wine was more rounded, mellower, and drinkable sooner then the juiced wine. The juiced wine eventually aged to almost perfection. It just took several months longer and never reached the compexity of the whole fruit wine.
Juices are easier and less messy, but whole fruit is my prefured wine. This is why the high end kits have a grape pack added. Or people add raisons.


Sent from my iPod touch using Home Brew

 

[bernardsmith]

Recipes are just someone's rules of thumb. My own rule of thumb is if I am happy drinking the juice at the concentration it is in my glass then I will be happy fermenting the juice at that concentration. If I wouldn't drink the juice at the dilution the recipe calls for then I am not interested in fermenting the juice at that dilution. So I very much agree with WVMJ. There is no simple rule about whether it is better to dilute or even concentrate the juice (I am currently making a hard cider after concentrating the juice by freezing it and allowing it to thaw and measuring the specific gravity of the juice as it slowly thawed and was allowed to collect in a carboy. The apple juice itself had a gravity of close to 1.045 when it was pressed but was almost 1.090 after about 1/3 of the frozen juice when I collected it after freezing.)

 

[WVMJ]

Yeast are itty bitty, they swim thru the holes in the bag unles you are using a plastic baggie to hold your fruit WVMJ

Ah I see. Sorry, I'm a bit slow and misunderstand things a lot lol.

 

[WVMJ]

Bernie, Drop that rule if you want to experiment with some good winemaking, pure elderberry is a bit tough to drink but make a mead from it and its wonderful, how about no rules, just some very flexible guidelines is a better rule Crabapple juice can be wicked, make a cider from it, add some MLF, wonderfull stuff you wouldnt think just by trying the juice. WVMJ

Recipes are just someone's rules of thumb. My own rule of thumb is if I am happy drinking the juice at the concentration it is in my glass then I will be happy fermenting the juice at that concentration. If I wouldn't drink the juice at the dilution the recipe calls for then I am not interested in fermenting the juice at that dilution. So I very much agree with WVMJ. There is no simple rule about whether it is better to dilute or even concentrate the juice (I am currently making a hard cider after concentrating the juice by freezing it and allowing it to thaw and measuring the specific gravity of the juice as it slowly thawed and was allowed to collect in a carboy. The apple juice itself had a gravity of close to 1.045 when it was pressed but was almost 1.090 after about 1/3 of the frozen juice when I collected it after freezing.)

 

[MajorDisaster]

Awesome. So Im going to use a combination of frozen cherries/berries/ currants (about 2kg) and 250g each of dried sloes and elderberries. Firstly, will that make 3 gallons? Secondly, can i stick it all in the same big straining bag, mash it, soak it, ferment, strain or do i need to prepare some stuff differently?

 

[WVMJ]

Are you in the UK? Where do you get dried sloes? So you have a little over 4 pounds of fleshy fruit, and a little over a pound of dried fruit which is at least 5 pounds worth of fresh fruit equivalent, so you are about at the 3lb/gallon starting point. Sounds like a good mix. You may need to soak and simmer the dried stuff in like a gallon of water and then you could add it to the bad with the other stuff. One thing about people using fermentation bags, when they take out the bag we like to sqeeze out the juice in the bag, if you squeeze like King Kong you are going to defeat the purpose of the bag and introduce a lot more sediment, so a moderate squeeze is best leaving a little juice in the bag will actually save some wine from when you rack and dont have 4 inches of muck at the bottom of your carboy. WVMJ

 

[MajorDisaster]

I am in the UK yes. Several online retailers stock them, sporadicly, but hopshopuk.com is my latest source.
Ok cool well perhaps I will add an extra pound or two of fresh something for good luck.
Il make sure im gentle with the bag.
I think il simmer slightly the dried first and add the rest later.