3 yr old hops

[brew703]

Looking for Amarillo hops and found some from Nikobrew for $17.50/lb. these are from 2013. According to their web site, these are stored below freezing and nitrogen flushed.

I'm just concerned how they will be since they are 3 years old and it will probably take me at least a year to use them up.

Should I take a chance or get the 2016 crop from Farmhouse ($26)?

Hops direct has Amarillo (2016 crop) for $18/lb but shipping is $12, which seems high considering most other online retailers ship for $5-$7.

 

[jimyson]

I needed some Amarillo in a pinch and got some at the LHBS for $30, so take that into perspective as well. Are you in the market for additional hops from Hops Direct to effectively level the shipping costs? That's what I did last time with them.

Looks like YVH doesn't have 2016 and I out of stock of 2015.

 

[brew703]

I needed some Amarillo in a pinch and got some at the LHBS for $30, so take that into perspective as well. Are you in the market for additional hops from Hops Direct to effectively level the shipping costs? That's what I did last time with them.

Looks like YVH doesn't have 2016 and I out of stock of 2015.

The more you order from Hops Direct the more the shipping will be. If I bought two pounds shipping would be $16. I know a flat rate box from the USPS can fit a pound and that would be approx. $6. $12 is outrageous.

Yakima says they may have some in January so I may just wait.

 

[GHBWNY]

Looking for Amarillo hops and found some from Nikobrew for $17.50/lb. these are from 2013. According to their web site, these are stored below freezing and nitrogen flushed.

I'm just concerned how they will be since they are 3 years old and it will probably take me at least a year to use them up.

Should I take a chance or get the 2016 crop from Farmhouse ($26)?

Hops direct has Amarillo (2016 crop) for $18/lb but shipping is $12, which seems high considering most other online retailers ship for $5-$7.

While fresh is always better, adequate prolonged storage of the leftovers might be chancy. My only experience with 3-year-old hops was some that came with an equipment deal on CL. They were pellets, all had been opened and clipped shut. The cheesy smell in some of them should have been the tip-off to chuck them all, but I was inexperienced and used one of the less-cheesy-smelling packs to dry hop a partial batch of 12 bottles. Every one of those ended up as a gusher or bottle bomb due to (my analysis) an infection from the hops.

In your case, sub-frozen, nitro-sealed hops are initially a good bet if you're going to use them right away. But after they are opened, unless you have a way of preserving them in the same way long-term, they might not be worth taking the chance of ruining a batch with them.

 

[BrewSomeMore]

Label Peelers has Amarillo for $19.99 and I used them in a NE IPA. Turned out fantastic. Cascade and Simcoe and pretty cheep there too. They might be year old but are Yakima nitrogen flushed.

 

[brew703]

Label Peelers has Amarillo for $19.99 and I used them in a NE IPA. Turned out fantastic. Cascade and Simcoe and pretty cheep there too. They might be year old but are Yakima nitrogen flushed.

Yakima and Farmhouse I believe are nitrogen flushed. I've ordered from them before with no issues but prefer Yakima so may just wait.

 

[brew703]

While fresh is always better, adequate prolonged storage of the leftovers might be chancy. My only experience with 3-year-old hops was some that came with an equipment deal on CL. They were pellets, all had been opened and clipped shut. The cheesy smell in some of them should have been the tip-off to chuck them all, but I was inexperienced and used one of the less-cheesy-smelling packs to dry hop a partial batch of 12 bottles. Every one of those ended up as a gusher or bottle bomb due to (my analysis) an infection from the hops.

In your case, sub-frozen, nitro-sealed hops are initially a good bet if you're going to use them right away. But after they are opened, unless you have a way of preserving them in the same way long-term, they might not be worth taking the chance of ruining a batch with them.

I do have a vac sealer but no way to nitrogen flush them so I think I will pass on the Nikobrew hops and just wait for Yakima to get some in.

 

[Homercidal]

Personally I would go for the deal if it makes financial sense. IF they had been stored in nitrogen below freezing.

You may take a year to use them, but I bet if you push out all of the air and roll up the edge and tape shut after each use, they will be fine over that time. Or find an excuse to use them up faster!

Just make sure to check for cheesy smell (yes, hops do have a cheesy smell when they go bad) before starting your brewday. Nothing worse than having a batch started and then finding out your hops are of no use.

Remember many places store hops without freezing for pretty long periods.

 

[brew703]

Personally I would go for the deal if it makes financial sense. IF they had been stored in nitrogen below freezing.

You may take a year to use them, but I bet if you push out all of the air and roll up the edge and tape shut after each use, they will be fine over that time. Or find an excuse to use them up faster!

Just make sure to check for cheesy smell (yes, hops do have a cheesy smell when they go bad) before starting your brewday. Nothing worse than having a batch started and then finding out your hops are of no use.

Remember many places store hops without freezing for pretty long periods.

I did not know bad hops smell cheesy. I store all my hops sealed in the freezer. I have not noticed any of my stored hops as being "cheesy" so I guess that's a good sign.

I would prefer to get the hops from Hops Direct as they are 2016 crop and are about the same price. I sent them an email about their shipping charges. If they can do it for $6 i'll order from them. If not then undecided what to do.

 

[Jwin]

Brewhardware has them at $25 /# with priority shipping ($5.91)
Good if you need some hardware too...

 

[seabrew8]

Looking for Amarillo hops and found some from Nikobrew for $17.50/lb. these are from 2013. According to their web site, these are stored below freezing and nitrogen flushed.

I'm just concerned how they will be since they are 3 years old and it will probably take me at least a year to use them up.

Should I take a chance or get the 2016 crop from Farmhouse ($26)?

Hops direct has Amarillo (2016 crop) for $18/lb but shipping is $12, which seems high considering most other online retailers ship for $5-$7.

Email them. Maybe even suggest if there spoiled will they refund you. My "guess" is there fine.

 

[Homercidal]

FWIW the hops I found to be "cheesy" were previously opened and probably left out for a little time before they went back in the freezer. I wasn't as concerned with oxidation and spoilage until smelling the result. I've got some Willamette that's been used here and there for a long time that smells and tastes fine.

 

[GHBWNY]

FWIW the hops I found to be "cheesy" were previously opened and probably left out for a little time before they went back in the freezer. I wasn't as concerned with oxidation and spoilage until smelling the result. I've got some Willamette that's been used here and there for a long time that smells and tastes fine.

Found this in an earlier HBT thread:

"I've heard that some Belgian beers really do well with poorly stored stale hops. ...Charlie Papazian talks about it in his 'Joy of Home Brewing' book."

So, I looked it up in my own Papazian and didn't find a direct reference to using old, stale hops in a Belgian (maybe a Lambic?). But in the process, I did find this that he said to be interesting:

"Freezing your hops in sealed packages will retain freshness for years and is the best method of storage. Hop quality will actually improve with age and the proper cold storage --- up to a certain point."

 

[IslandLizard]

The more you order from Hops Direct the more the shipping will be. If I bought two pounds shipping would be $16. I know a flat rate box from the USPS can fit a pound and that would be approx. $6. $12 is outrageous.

Yes, shipping on one pound is high, even on 2 or 3 pounds. But realize that your shipping per pound goes down with each additional pound!

Also make note that many of their hops are priced at 2/3 or less compared to elsewhere. So add the hops you're interested in to your shopping basket, calculate shipping, then compare to what a similar deal runs somewhere else.

With HopsDirect I found a sweet spot for shipping to lie around ordering 4 pounds of pellets. The next one around 8-10 pounds.

The shipping of leaf was higher, but also has a sweet spot around 3 or 4 pounds IIRC. You can mix leaf and pellets in one shipment. Just keep an eye on how the shipping calculator jumps up or down suddenly, and adjust from there.

An Excel/Google sheet on the side can keep you informed of the real per pound price for each vendor, including their multiple pound discounts, flat shipping, etc.

 

[wingnutbrew]

My personal experience I used Nikobrew once but would not use them again. I have used Hopsdirect 3 times and always very happy. I got 8lbs delivered to Nashville earlier this month for $18 which I feel was very fair. I buy hops for the whole year at once and supplement small amounts through my LHBS if needed.

 

[brew703]

Yes, shipping on one pound is high, even on 2 or 3 pounds. But realize that your shipping per pound goes down with each additional pound!

Also make note that many of their hops are priced at 2/3 or less compared to elsewhere. So add the hops you're interested in to your shopping basket, calculate shipping, then compare to what a similar deal runs somewhere else.

With HopsDirect I found a sweet spot for shipping to lie around ordering 4 pounds of pellets. The next one around 8-10 pounds.

The shipping of leaf was higher, but also has a sweet spot around 3 or 4 pounds IIRC. You can mix leaf and pellets in one shipment. Just keep an eye on how the shipping calculator jumps up or down suddenly, and adjust from there.

An Excel/Google sheet on the side can keep you informed of the real per pound price for each vendor, including their multiple pound discounts, flat shipping, etc.

Hops Direct was about $7 cheaper than Farmhouse but once shipping is factored in they were about the same.

I assume Yakima would be about the same as Farmhouse if they had any in stock.

At the moment not looking to order more than a pound and I am pretty loaded on hops at the moment.

Bottom line is I know it doesn't cost $12 to ship a pound of hops in a small flat rate box. I've shipped stuff before in one of those boxes and also received a pound of hops in a small flat rate box for $6. So I know it can be done.

I'm not in a rush to order the Amarillo hops so I'll probably just wait until Yakima gets them in.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've browsed, but not ordered from Nikobrew. Hops are his only business AFAIK, and I've not seen or heard anyone complain about him or his services. Hops should be stored deep frozen in Nitrogen flushed or vacuum sealed oxygen barrier bags, and that's what he does. Yakima Valley also sold some older hops (not Amarillo), discounted a good bit at the beginning of this month.

Are 2013 hops still good?

I have hops from the 2012 harvest and they are as good as fresh ones. They've always been sealed well --air squeezed out, flap folded over a few times, then taped shut-- and always deep frozen between -4 - 0°F.

I started to weigh out 10% extra for each year of age, to compensate, but that was way too generous. Even 5% seems a bit too much. Perhaps 2-4% is enough.

What bugs me is that hops at either of my 2 LHBS are stored in a fridge, not frozen. Also 1 oz is the going size at $2.00-3.50 a baggie...
One will sell me 2 oz or more from their own (pound) bulk bags at a small discount from the 1 oz prepackaged size. Both will sell me pounds at astonishing prices. Last Spring I was quoted $40 for a pound of Mosaic... Uh, no thanks!

 

[z-bob]

I found a small packet of Tettnanger hop pellets in my freezer last year that had been there for at least 15 years in an opened and then paper-clipped shut mylar package. Stored all this time at -5 degrees F. They still smelled amazing. (I thought they would be cheesy or smell like "freezer" by now)

I was tempted to use them, but thought that might be asking for trouble since I had new hops I could use instead.

 

[brew703]

I've browsed, but not ordered from Nikobrew. Hops are his only business AFAIK, and I've not seen or heard anyone complain about him or his services. Hops should be stored deep frozen in Nitrogen flushed or vacuum sealed oxygen barrier bags, and that's what he does. Yakima Valley also sold some older hops (not Amarillo), discounted a good bit at the beginning of this month.

Are 2013 hops still good?

I have hops from the 2012 harvest and they are as good as fresh ones. They've always been sealed well --air squeezed out, flap folded over a few times, then taped shut-- and always deep frozen between -4 - 0°F.

I started to weigh out 10% extra for each year of age, to compensate, but that was way too generous. Even 5% seems a bit too much. Perhaps 2-4% is enough.

What bugs me is that hops at either of my 2 LHBS are stored in a fridge, not frozen. Also 1 oz is the going size at $2.00-3.50 a baggie...
One will sell me 2 oz or more from their own (pound) bulk bags at a small discount from the 1 oz prepackaged size. Both will sell me pounds at astonishing prices. Last Spring I was quoted $40 for a pound of Mosaic... Uh, no thanks!

I bought some 2015 hops from Yakima when they had some on sale for black Friday but never bought hops that were 3 years old. I'm sure they are good and I too have not heard anything bad about Nikobrew.

When I first started brewing I used to buy from my LHBS but they were way over-priced. Then I started buying the 4oz packs from Farmhouse now I've upgraded to pounds of the hops I use the most.

I may just go ahead and bite the bullet and order a pound from Nikobrew.

 

[brew703]

Guess the old saying "you snooze you loose" is true LOL. Nikobrew doesnt have any 1 lb packs anymore. Someone snatched it up.

 

[Steveruch]

I've had properly stored amarillo hops still good after five years in the freezer.

 

[IslandLizard]

I found a small packet of Tettnanger hop pellets in my freezer last year that had been there for at least 15 years in an opened and then paper-clipped shut mylar package. Stored all this time at -5 degrees F. They still smelled amazing. (I thought they would be cheesy or smell like "freezer" by now)

I was tempted to use them, but thought that might be asking for trouble since I had new hops I could use instead.

That's not an excuse not to use them. We-need-to-know!

Please keep us informed, unless you're striving for the Golden 25-year mark?

 

[schatzke]

I have ordered from nikobrew several times and have been completely satisfied. The flat $5 shipping is nice too.

 

[z-bob]

That's not an excuse not to use them. We-need-to-know!

Please keep us informed, unless you're striving for the Golden 25-year mark?

Sorry, I threw them out (but not right away.)

I'm *really* trying to get rid of stuff but it's not easy. You should see my basement, my garage, and my freezer. They are better than they were a month ago; you can see the basement floor now and almost walk thru the garage.

 

[imasickboy]

I've ordered from Nikobrew several times over the past couple of years, and have purchased hops that were 3 years old a time or two. I have always been satisfied with the quality and freshness. Once I open them, I put the remainder in mason jars, vacuum seal them, and store them at 5 degrees in my freezer. I have had no issues whatsoever with spoilage, and have no reason not to purchase from Nikobrew whenever I need to. He does his part right, and if you do your part right, you will have no issues. If they arrive fresh, but don't stay that way, it's certainly not the vendor's fault.

TL;DR:

@Nikobrew = recommended vendor

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry, I threw them out (but not right away.)

I'm *really* trying to get rid of stuff but it's not easy. You should see my basement, my garage, and my freezer. They are better than they were a month ago; you can see the basement floor now and almost walk thru the garage.

Damn! 12 years of research lost, out with the garbage... tsk, tsk, tsk.

But glad to hear you can see the floor again and almost walk through the garage. That's worth something! Should keep the other household members happier too.

Thanks for sharing the findings on the aroma, though. There's still hope for those old frozen hops!