3 Gallons Fresh Cider from a Local Farm

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Tobor_8thMan

Tobor_8thMan

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Purchased 3 gallons of fresh cider from a local farm today. Want to make homemade hard cider. First time making hard cider using fresh cider.

I'll add enough water and 2 pounds of corn sugar to get 6 gallons.

My question. Do I stir in 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of apple cider (in this case 3/4 teaspoon) of sodium (or potassium) metabisulfite to prevent wild yeast growth. Or, do I use 1/4 * 6 (1.5 teaspoons) (since I'm making 6 gallons) of sodium (or potassium) metabisulfite to prevent wild yeast growth?

Wait at least 48 hours and then pitch my cider yeast?

Thanks.
 
I would just pitch your yeast and let it go. That's what I've done several times without issue. You could break a Campden tablet (Potassium Metabisulfite) up and throw that in if you're worried.
 
Most apple juice sits between 1.035-1.055. I only ferment 100% juice.
Cider kits usually use Concentrate and advice topping up. With juice that isn't concentrated, there is no need to dilute.

If you already diluted by 1/2, you may need to add fajc to bring it up. Adding corn sugar will only "thin" out the flavor.
 
Why would you dilute that much? At least at some concentrate if you do. There's no reason to dilute the juice, it'll ferment just fine the way it is.
 
Yeah, (if it's not too late) just make 3 gallons or go back and get 3 more gallons of juice if you want 6. I guarantee you won't like the result if you dilute it 50% with sugar water.

I also suggest to skip the pre-fermentation sulfite. People don't use it correctly and it causes more grief than it solves.
The anti-microbial action is pH-dependent, so you'd need to measure pH, calculate the proper amount to hit your target molecular SO2, add that, let it sit, and then aerate like crazy before pitching your yeast.
It's no wonder people treat it like witchcraft and there's hardly any info online about the proper usage.
 
Yes, agreed! don't water down your nice fresh cider! You'll make a very watered down cider with little flavor.
Also, check the label to make sure no sorbate on benzoate is added. It's unusual to find fresh cider that hasn't had something added to it, depending on what state you are in.
 
+1 to all those who recommended fermenting the 3 gallons with no dilution. If i could easily go get a carboy of fresh pressed cider, id be super duper stoked. Dont ruin that lovely juice with water and sugar.
Is it because u happen to have a 6 gallon carboy or brew bucket that you want to make it a 6 gallon batch? Maybe go get a 3 gallon at the LHBS if thats the case.
Do you know what apples were used in the cider you bought? Just curious
 
Did as suggested on Sunday. 3 gallons of only cider fresh, unpasteurized, no chemicals from the orchard.
OG: 1.050

Stirred to introduce oxygen. Stirred in 0.3 ounces acid blend, 0.6 teaspoons peptic enzyme and 0.75 teaspoons DAP.

Thanks for all the input.

I'm unsure about the apple variety used for the cider. However, we were told people use the cider to make hard cider. The gallons of cider sold quickly.
 
Tobor_8thMan said:
Did as suggested on Sunday. 3 gallons of only cider fresh, unpasteurized, no chemicals from the orchard.
OG: 1.050

Stirred to introduce oxygen. Stirred in 0.3 ounces acid blend, 0.6 teaspoons peptic enzyme and 0.75 teaspoons DAP.

Thanks for all the input.

I'm unsure about the apple variety used for the cider. However, we were told people use the cider to make hard cider. The gallons of cider sold quickly.
Click to expand...

I bet they did sell fast. How much does a gallon go for out there? And, I am wondering how much it costs per pound to pick the apples yourself? I think the gallons here are $12+, and apples are $2/pound, and apparently it takes roughly 40 pounds to make 3 gallons; seems kind of crazy and doesn't make any sense at $26 a gallon. I mean, I am picking them and juicing them for crying out loud. Maybe they use the "ugly" fruit to make the juice, and leave the pretty fruit for the weekend picking crowd...?
At any rate, you have me inspired to think of calling in sick tomorrow to drive up north to Sebastopol (highly unlikely) to get some fresh pressed juice while its still available. I could go pick apples but renting an apple press costs something around $100 a day, so that ain't happening. But, I am hoping to get at least a carboy worth of fresh juice sooner than later. Maybe two: Do one all natty, and the other with a Kveik yeast strain. Keep us posted on your cider, I'm sure it will be delicious (definitely better than the store bought juice I use :)

PS: Bet its nice right now in VA...I bet you get a lot of beautiful autumn color unlike California, which is either hot or not, and brown or green. But its always hot lately here in the Bay Area. I miss the seasonal changes of the Midwest...
 
$10.00 and the cider was put into the gallon jug minutes before we purchased it.

They had peaches, Asian pear and several different varieties of apples. Was hoping to purchase Asian pear cider to ferment, but no such luck.

Prices went down the more pounds purchased. Believe began at $1.99 a pound. Over a certain amount $1.49 a pound and finally around $1.25 a pound.

Your plans for Monday sound good.

Unfortunately here in NOVA it has gotten very hot and humid again. A/C back on. Last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday were cool and very nice.
 
Tobor_8thMan said:
$10.00 and the cider was put into the gallon jug minutes before we purchased it.

They had peaches, Asian pear and several different varieties of apples. Was hoping to purchase Asian pear cider to ferment, but no such luck.

Prices went down the more pounds purchased. Believe began at $1.99 a pound. Over a certain amount $1.49 a pound and finally around $1.25 a pound.

Your plans for Monday sound good.

Unfortunately here in NOVA it has gotten very hot and humid again. A/C back on. Last Wednesday, Thursday and Friday were cool and very nice.
Click to expand...

$10 a gallon seems pretty reasonable to me. With artisanal ciders priced upwards to $25 for 750ml, and being maybe kind of special, Home Brewed cider at $30 and some change for 3 gallons with whatever else goes into it, like yeast, nutes, tannin, etc (not factoring the cost of carboys, fridges, and such, you know, the one time purchases), makes a lot of sense to me! Plus, its a lot of fun too. Ain't nothing like something you make with your own two hands (3, if you're from Arkasas, jk)

Gotta love the weather these days... I'm originally from Detroit, but I hear the weather is all messed up there too.
 
I guess I'm lucky I get fresh unpasteurized juice at about $6/gal at a local cider mill. My local homebrew club also does a bulk purchase for about $4-5/gal but that's less convenient.

For my faux ice cider I've used store-bought FAJC, which is dirt cheap.

I currently have 3 gal fresh unpasteurized juice with the natural wild yeast and I added a few drops from a couple of my mixed Brett cultures. Also added a little pectinase, French toasted oak, some FT Blanc Soft tannin for body, and Booster Blanc to preserve the flavors during MLF. The apples were a nice blend of Gala, Honeycrisp, Ruby Mac, and Sunrise. It tasted great and OG was 1.053.

I had it at 70F for a couple days to let the alcohol-sensitive yeast and bacteria contribute flavors first and now I'm lowering it to preserve esters (both the yeast esters and apple aromatics).

Cheers
 
RPh_Guy said:
I guess I'm lucky I get fresh unpasteurized juice at about $6/gal at a local cider mill. My local homebrew club also does a bulk purchase for about $4-5/gal but that's less convenient.

For my faux ice cider I've used store-bought FAJC, which is dirt cheap.

I currently have 3 gal fresh unpasteurized juice with the natural wild yeast and I added a few drops from a couple of my mixed Brett cultures. Also added a little pectinase, French toasted oak, some FT Blanc Soft tannin for body, and Booster Blanc to preserve the flavors during MLF. The apples were a nice blend of Gala, Honeycrisp, Ruby Mac, and Sunrise. It tasted great and OG was 1.053.

I had it at 70F for a couple days to let the alcohol-sensitive yeast and bacteria contribute flavors first and now I'm lowering it to preserve esters (both the yeast esters and apple aromatics).

Cheers
Click to expand...
Theres a recipe in there ;)
So, im wondering 1) what FT Blanc soft tannin is 2) booster blanc 3) tell me about the mixed brett cultures if u dont mind, im a curious fellow, and this seems intriguing 4) do all of the listed things get added right at the start, or at different phases of fermentation? 5) "for a couple days", is that at the beginning of primary?
6) the french oak goes in at secondary or is in primary (contemplating adding oak to a batch soon) 7) id ask about MLF, but i can research that later perhaps. Theres a lot of info in your post, and im sure to unpack it will take some effort that i do not expect, however, if you feel like indulging, im all ears :)

Lots of questions, but man it seems interesting (sorry if i am derailing the thread in some way that goes against HBT protocol)< so much to learn and experience, its a tad overwhelming as i delve into the questions i posed above...
 
Last edited:
RPh_Guy said:
I guess I'm lucky I get fresh unpasteurized juice at about $6/gal at a local cider mill. My local homebrew club also does a bulk purchase for about $4-5/gal but that's less convenient.

For my faux ice cider I've used store-bought FAJC, which is dirt cheap.

I currently have 3 gal fresh unpasteurized juice with the natural wild yeast and I added a few drops from a couple of my mixed Brett cultures. Also added a little pectinase, French toasted oak, some FT Blanc Soft tannin for body, and Booster Blanc to preserve the flavors during MLF. The apples were a nice blend of Gala, Honeycrisp, Ruby Mac, and Sunrise. It tasted great and OG was 1.053.

I had it at 70F for a couple days to let the alcohol-sensitive yeast and bacteria contribute flavors first and now I'm lowering it to preserve esters (both the yeast esters and apple aromatics).

Cheers
Click to expand...
Its interesting that blanc booster deals with oxygen among other things (i already started looking at answering my own questions)
 
https://www.morebeer.com/products/tannin-ft-blanc-soft.html
This tannin adds body and a touch of sweetness. Very smooth. It also reduces the effects of oxidation.
I used 0.33g/gal. In the pilot batch last year I used 0.5g/gal and that was a little too much for my taste, in combination with the oak that also adds tannins. So, I'm still fine-tuning these levels.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/booster-blanc.html
I'm using this to preserve the fruit flavors during MLF. It generally improves wine flavor and also helps reduce formation of sulfur compounds.

Besides the natural yeast and bacteria, I added a few drops of WY5526 and a few drops of cultured dregs from Three Floyds Deesko. It has a really tasty Brett strain; I'm not sure if it's commercial or how they got it.
Brett contributes wonderful fruity flavors and also eats any undesirable flavors that may have been produced by the wild microbes.
Also, I bottle carbonate. Brett eats autolysis flavors (awesome, right?), so the cider I bottle will be good indefinitely.

Pectinase I used 0.33g/gal. Lower than suggested. I don't want it impacting flavor.

I added all that stuff at the start. I will likely want to adjust (increase) acidity when it's ready to package, a few months probably.

The oak I added at the beginning. 0.17 oz/gal cubes. That's on the low side, I want just a hint of it .. smoke, wood, and vanilla.

MLF is Malolactic Fermentation. Wild bacteria use malic acid (the main organic acid in apples) as a food source, and turn it into lactic acid, reducing the sour taste. This biological process is known to remove some of the fruity flavor from wine for whatever reason.

The previous batch (from last year) was very close to the ideal cider for my taste.
Don't forget the process and not just the ingredients also has a huge impact on the final product.
Cheers
 
Last edited:
blasterooni said:
I bet they did sell fast. How much does a gallon go for out there? And, I am wondering how much it costs per pound to pick the apples yourself? I think the gallons here are $12+, and apples are $2/pound, and apparently it takes roughly 40 pounds to make 3 gallons; seems kind of crazy and doesn't make any sense at $26 a gallon.

PS: Bet its nice right now in VA...
Click to expand...
Just got back from a 3 day music festival along the banks of the Shenandoah river in Virginia. Great swimming and very pleasant weather.
Anyway, back here in PA, I can get get "seconds" for $6-7 a bushel. Some seconds are better for cider than others. Some have defects and are in the seconds bin, some are just small, unripe apples. But I can press my own juice for about $2-3 a gallon.
U-pick operations have the highest prices. Look for producers who will sell by the bushel.
I can buy #1 grade for about $15/bushel or less which is like $.30-$.35 a pound.
The two biggest issues for me is getting tree ripened fruit, which I think makes a better cider and the varieties I want. Not all eating apples make the best hard cider.
I have a couple of old apple trees on my property and when I get apples (don't get a crop every year) I try to scrounge up some more from roadside trees and make a wild fermented cider.
Renting a press for $100 seems pricey unless you are going to go all day and make a large amount. Look on you tube for cheapo cider presses using a bucket and a car jack.
For a small batch, smash up the apples using a 6' length of 4x4 wood and a plastic bucket.
To the OP: Cider will make itself, you don't have to add anything. Juice made from eating apples is usually highly acidic, so acid blend isn't needed.
You can add sulfites or not. I usually just go with some beer/cider yeast and let go with minimal intervention.
 
RPh_Guy said:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/tannin-ft-blanc-soft.html
This tannin adds body and a touch of sweetness. Very smooth. It also reduces the effects of oxidation.
I used 0.33g/gal. In the pilot batch last year I used 0.5g/gal and that was a little too much for my taste, in combination with the oak that also adds tannins. So, I'm still fine-tuning these levels.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/booster-blanc.html
I'm using this to preserve the fruit flavors during MLF. It generally improves wine flavor and also helps reduce formation of sulfur compounds.

Besides the natural yeast and bacteria, I added a few drops of WY5526 and a few drops of cultured dregs from Three Floyds Deesko. It has a really tasty Brett strain; I'm not sure if it's commercial or how they got it.
Brett contributes wonderful fruity flavors and also eats any undesirable flavors that may have been produced by the wild microbes.
Also, I bottle carbonate. Brett eats autolysis flavors (awesome, right?), so the cider I bottle will be good indefinitely.

Pectinase I used 0.33g/gal. Lower than suggested. I don't want it impacting flavor.

I added all that stuff at the start. I will likely want to adjust (increase) acidity when it's ready to package, a few months probably.

The oak I added at the beginning. 0.17 oz/gal cubes. That's on the low side, I want just a hint of it .. smoke, wood, and vanilla.

MLF is Malolactic Fermentation. Wild bacteria use malic acid (the main organic acid in apples) as a food source, and turn it into lactic acid, reducing the sour taste. This biological process is known to remove some of the fruity flavor from wine for whatever reason.

The previous batch (from last year) was very close to the ideal cider for my taste.
Don't forget the process and not just the ingredients also has a huge impact on the final product.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that up, and sharing! That's a lot of great info right there. Yes, the process. In bodybuilding we say the process is the goal, and the goal is the process. You can have all the supplements and "super"-supps, the perfect training routine, a diet that includes nutrient timing and all that, and goal in mind. But, the goal and everything that goes with it changes, so its the process that remains the constant. Looks like that is the same thing with cider making, or crafting in your case. It's more about the "how and how much, when and why", and not so much the "what" that goes into creating a great cider. I have a lot more to research and to try out, but keeping it simple may be the bet idea for now, for me at least. Just adding one new ingredient at a time so I can experience what that ingredient does, how it affects the cider that I made in comparison to a past batch. I can also see the benefit of using just one strain of yeast during the learning processes as well since each yeast may have a different outcome than another thus affecting the process.

That being said, I am going to give a little thought to which yeast strain I want to use to get to know the different ingredients and their specific effect(s) on a cider. There are a few that I would put on the list of possibilities: Voss Kveik, 1118, S-04, US-05, or Nottingham, in that order (VK being my first choice/consideration etc). I know how the first 3 behave, and the last two are brewing as I write (both about a week out to secondary).

Time to go get ready for work...
 
madscientist451 said:
Just got back from a 3 day music festival along the banks of the Shenandoah river in Virginia. Great swimming and very pleasant weather.
Anyway, back here in PA, I can get get "seconds" for $6-7 a bushel. Some seconds are better for cider than others. Some have defects and are in the seconds bin, some are just small, unripe apples. But I can press my own juice for about $2-3 a gallon.
U-pick operations have the highest prices. Look for producers who will sell by the bushel.
I can buy #1 grade for about $15/bushel or less which is like $.30-$.35 a pound.
The two biggest issues for me is getting tree ripened fruit, which I think makes a better cider and the varieties I want. Not all eating apples make the best hard cider.
I have a couple of old apple trees on my property and when I get apples (don't get a crop every year) I try to scrounge up some more from roadside trees and make a wild fermented cider.
Renting a press for $100 seems pricey unless you are going to go all day and make a large amount. Look on you tube for cheapo cider presses using a bucket and a car jack.
For a small batch, smash up the apples using a 6' length of 4x4 wood and a plastic bucket.
To the OP: Cider will make itself, you don't have to add anything. Juice made from eating apples is usually highly acidic, so acid blend isn't needed.
You can add sulfites or not. I usually just go with some beer/cider yeast and let go with minimal intervention.
Click to expand...
I like that car jack/bucket idea. I dont need anything fancy, and there are trees around town choked with apples that free for the takin'. It'd be cool to do a cider with the neighborhood apples :)
 
Wow. My local grocery sells "organic" gallons for $11. And that's not from what you guys call cider apples.
Sometimes it sucks to live in paradise..
 
Blacksmith1 said:
Wow. My local grocery sells "organic" gallons for $11. And that's not from what you guys call cider apples.
Sometimes it sucks to live in paradise..
Click to expand...
Have you used it?
The organic juice I've used made some very delicious cider. It was about about $10/gal and definitely worth the price.
 
I get a decent one at a yoga/heathy market place downtown for like $8-9 but I hate making that drive. But I'll make it before I pay for the other...
Still not what you guys in apple areas describe.
 
Blacksmith1 said:
I get a decent one at a yoga/heathy market place downtown for like $8-9 but I hate making that drive. But I'll make it before I pay for the other...
Still not what you guys in apple areas describe.
Click to expand...

The "apple" areas round here seem to all be catering to the U-pick crowd (you pay just to get in, and some require a $40 annual membership, but you get a little, and I mean LITtLE discount, or tourists because its in wine country probably. It's not like when I lived in Michigan as a kid going to the orchards and picking tons for next to nothing, or it at least it seemed that way given my grandmother was probably even more frugal than me.
 
RPh_Guy said:
Have you used it?
The organic juice I've used made some very delicious cider. It was about about $10/gal and definitely worth the price.
Click to expand...
I use the organic and conventional juice, seems good to me, but I havent had the opportunity to use farm fresh pressed cider apple varieties. Someday tho. My wife and I are going out of town this weekend, and there are some orchards out past sacramento. I am hoping we can go to one along the way. Might even bring a 3 gallon carboy just in case :)
 
Fermenting away...
Cider-1b.jpg
Cider-2b.jpg
Cider-3b.jpg
 
Tobor_8thMan said:
Fermenting away...
View attachment 645868 View attachment 645869 View attachment 645870
Click to expand...

Beautiful!
X2 on the smaller container at secondary. Oh, and keep it out of direct sunlight if possible, or wrap it in some opaque cloth or mylar. I use the mylar bubble wrap bags that come with Amazon fresh order. Cut a slit in the bottom and slip it over your carboy. Fits like a glove on a 5 gal

Btw, Which yeast strain did you pitch? I only recall talk of using campden tabs so im assuming youre not using the wild yeast...
 
blasterooni said:
Beautiful!
X2 on the smaller container at secondary. Oh, and keep it out of direct sunlight if possible, or wrap it in some opaque cloth or mylar. I use the mylar bubble wrap bags that come with Amazon fresh order. Cut a slit in the bottom and slip it over your carboy. Fits like a glove on a 5 gal

Btw, Which yeast strain did you pitch? I only recall talk of using campden tabs so im assuming youre not using the wild yeast...
Click to expand...

Nope, I never wrote anything about campden tablets. Repitching Brewer's Best cider kit yeast.

Fermenting in my brewery as this is where I do all my fermenting (have a British pub ale fermenting nearby). I will move the cider into a dark area near my bar when I brew an American Wheat ale on October 5th.
 
Last edited:
Tobor_8thMan said:
Nope, I never wrote anything about campden tablets. Repitching Brewer's Best cider kit yeast.

Fermenting in my brewery as this is where I do all my fermenting (have a British pub ale fermenting nearby). I will move the cider into a dark area near my bar when I brew an American ale on October 5th.
Click to expand...
Oops my bad, someone else mentioned it
 
Tobor_8thMan said:
had to use a 5L flask for one of the gallons (too much for a 2L flask) until I source another 1 gallon glass jug
Click to expand...
Get a bunch of sizes to catch your over runs. I start my batches oversized so that at the end I have at least the batch size I wanted when I bottle. I have gallon, 3L, Half gallon, 1.75L, 1.5L, .750L, and two old style bottles that my sister had which I do not know the size of but are great for small amounts. This way I can top up with the same batch and add back any extras at bottling.
 

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