1469 top cropped weird result

[thegoat506]

I top cropped some 1469 2 weeks ago. I discarded the first krausen and then harvested the second into a mason jar, topped it off with distilled water and threw it in the fridge. The attached photos are what it looks like two weeks later. I have a layer floating on the top of the jar and then another layer than is nicely compacted on the bottom. My question is if the top layer is still residual proteins or if it is really stubborn yeast that refuses to go dormant? Should I skim it or leave it in for pitching into my next batch?

 

[giraffe]

Weird. While ive topcropped 1469 many times before, Ive always topcropped directly into a new batch, ive never stored it.

The top looks like yeast though, and 1469 is notorious for having a krausen that refuses to fall. My instinct would be to pitch all of it, but thats just a guess.

 

[thegoat506]

Yeah that was my instinct. I think it looks a whole lot like yeast other than it is floating at the top and refusing to go dormat under cold temperatures and a lack of nutrients. I am kind of curious if it is mutated and going to affect flavor. The other thing I am wondering about is if I am ever going to get it to drop out of my next batch.

I am brewing a Timothy Taylor clone this weekend so I guess I am going to find out.

 

[giraffe]

Fresh 1469 sometimes never falls for me, and I have to siphon out from underneath the krausen. Its just the strain. The beer will clear, it just sits on top.

 

[schokie]

I've had that before, even with other yeast. I don't top crop though, I harvest the slurry from the bottom.

Don't know what is, but I skim it off and just pitch the thick stuff on the bottom of the jar.

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

I do not recommend top cropping into water; however, then again, I do not recommend rinsing yeast with and storing it under water because the practice does not do what home brewers have been led to believe. The reason why we especially do not want to store top-cropped yeast under water is that top-cropped yeast has not undergone the morphological changes that occur at the end of fermentation.

At the end of fermentation (i.e., when carbon becomes limiting), yeast cells store trehalose and glycogen. Their cell walls also thicken before entering a state known as quiescence. These cellular changes are a survival mechanism that allows yeast cells to withstand periods of starvation. Cellular activity does not stop during quiescence. It merely slows down like that of a hibernating animal.

The standard practice of a taking a top-crop when the gravity reaches 50% of original gravity results in the healthiest yeast crop for re-pitching, but the crop is very fragile from a storage point of view. What I do when I top crop is to feed the cropped yeast green beer from the fermentation at a rate of roughly two to three parts green beer to one part yeast. That way, we store the yeast in a low-pH solution that gives the cells an opportunity to enter quiescence. While carbon will become limiting fairly quickly, it is not like the shock experienced when the carbon source is removed abruptly.

 

[ba-brewer]

Your yeast looks just like some 1968 london ESB yeast I harvested from the bottom of the fermentor. I collected the yeast and some beer in a jar and all was good for a day or so, nice thick layer of slurry with beer on top. Then one day I look in the fridge and find a mess and the jar separated into three layers like yours.

Was your yeast separated in the beginning?

 

[thegoat506]

Was your yeast separated in the beginning?

It was not seperated when I started.

As an FYI this stuff was really active. I shook up the jar and pitched into my landlord clone wort this weekend. Within 2 hours I had rapid airlock activity and the begnning of a krausen forming. At 24 hours I skimmed the first krausen and plan on top cropping the 2nd krausen at 72 hours. I will report back on if I am getting any weird flavors from a possible infection or mutation, but so far so good.

 

[thegoat506]

I do not recommend top cropping into water; however, then again, I do not recommend rinsing yeast with and storing it under water because the practice does not do what home brewers have been led to believe. The reason why we especially do not want to store top-cropped yeast under water is that top-cropped yeast has not undergone the morphological changes that occur at the end of fermentation.

At the end of fermentation (i.e., when carbon becomes limiting), yeast cells store trehalose and glycogen. Their cell walls also thicken before entering a state known as quiescence. These cellular changes are a survival mechanism that allows yeast cells to withstand periods of starvation. Cellular activity does not stop during quiescence. It merely slows down like that of a hibernating animal.

The standard practice of a taking a top-crop when the gravity reaches 50% of original gravity results in the healthiest yeast crop for re-pitching, but the crop is very fragile from a storage point of view. What I do when I top crop is to feed the cropped yeast green beer from the fermentation at a rate of roughly two to three parts green beer to one part yeast. That way, we store the yeast in a low-pH solution that gives the cells an opportunity to enter quiescence. While carbon will become limiting fairly quickly, it is not like the shock experienced when the carbon source is removed abruptly.

Thanks for the information. It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. I will try using the green beer instead this time around and see how it turns out.

 

[rhys333]

It was not seperated when I started.

As an FYI this stuff was really active. I shook up the jar and pitched into my landlord clone wort this weekend. Within 2 hours I had rapid airlock activity and the begnning of a krausen forming. At 24 hours I skimmed the first krausen and plan on top cropping the 2nd krausen at 72 hours. I will report back on if I am getting any weird flavors from a possible infection or mutation, but so far so good.

I top-crop 1469 and have experienced the same as you. Basically its a beast, and as others say that krausen doesn't want to drop. Once I cracked open a month old mason jar of 1469 to have the yeast billow out like expanding foam. It was stored under boiled/cooled RO water, shaken up at collection to put the yeast in solution. I think a few things happened: 1) I pulled a small amount of unfermented wort along with the yeast allowing fermentation to continue; 2) I shook the bejeezers out of the yeast/water solution reintroducing O2, and 3) I refrigerated and tightened down the lid too soon. Results were similar to your experience. Avoiding shaking and leaving the jar at room temp for a day or so with the lid loose solved the problem. Anyway, long story short, your yeast is probably just fine... 1469 is just a little hyperactive on sugar.

 

[ba-brewer]

Glad to hear this is sort of normal behavior, I was worried I might have gotten some other yeast mixed in somehow. It is kind of funny though how the yeast keeps working at lager temps.

I looked at my 1968 and the top layer has fallen again, so it was like that for almost 3 weeks.

 

[rjs3273]

This sounds a lot like what I am seeing in primary at the moment. The fermentation has long ago finished and the beer tastes good but there is a solid crust of 1469 on the surface. It is like the krausen flocculated in situ at the top and formed quite a thick, solid cake there. Most of the yeast is of course in the normal cake at the bottom.

Since this thread is so old, is there any way to recover the missing images from the first post?