1.144: is this just a bad idea?

[AlexKay]

I just brewed a ryewine (think wheatwine, but with rye.) It's cooling the last 10 degrees to pitching temperature now. OG is 1.144. Here's what I know to do (or think I know):

1) Pitch lots of yeast. I'm planning a pack of Nottingham for a gallon batch. Nottingham lists a 14% alcohol tolerance, btw.
2) Oxygenate a whole lot. I'm not sold on oxygenating a second time (should I be?), but I'm definitely going to gas it up good at the beginning.
3) Rehydrate the yeast, then slowly add wort into it to avoid a sudden jump in osmotic pressure.
4) Use a yeast nutrient. (Servomyces, check.)
5) Ferment for as long as it takes.

What am I missing, or do I have wrong?

 

[MaxStout]

Looks like you have the right steps set out. Make sure your yeast strain has sufficient alcohol tolerance to handle it.

 

[AlexKay]

Looks like you have the right steps set out. Make sure your yeast strain has sufficient alcohol tolerance to handle it.

If the Notty craps out at 14%, I can theoretically still get 72% attenuation.

 

[MaxStout]

If the Notty craps out at 14%, I can theoretically still get 72% attenuation.

By my math, 72% attenuation means FG of about 1.040. It'll be sweet, if that's what you're aiming for. Monitor your final gravity, in case the Notty poops out early. If it stalls out too high, you can repitch with some neutral yeast that has higher alcohol tolerance. IIRC, CBC-1 can go to 18%.

 

[Dland]

I agree not to oxygenate after initial shot. That would be too sweet for me, but I'd like to here how it turns out, big fan of rye in beer.

 

[AlexKay]

I've got about 60 IBUs in there, and hopefully that'll counter some of the sweetness. Then again, the plan is to let it sit for a long time, so final bitterness may be a bit less than that.

FWIW, the recipe (about a one-gallon batch) was:
2.5 lbs. rye malt
1.5 lbs. Vienna
0.5 lbs. Munich
0.25 lb crystal rye
0.25 lb. DRC

4 g Magnum @ 60 min.
8 g Willamette @ 15 min.
8 g Willamette @ 0 min.

11 g (1 pack) Lallemand Nottingham

 

[MaxStout]

It doesn't hurt to overshoot IBUs a little, as aging the beer will diminish bitterness some. 60 IBU sounds good for your recipe.

 

[madscientist451]

Thanks for posting, looking forward to an update.

 

[hotbeer]

Put a CCTV cam on it. Might be interesting if this is just a carboy and airlock. Or are you a little more sophisticated with your fermenter?

 

[jwelch1103]

At that OG I would oxygenate at least a second smaller dose at about 12 hours after pitching and more likely a 3rd small dose at about 24 hours after pitch. The yeast will use it up.

 

[AlexKay]

Put a CCTV cam on it. Might be interesting if this is just a carboy and airlock. Or are you a little more sophisticated with your fermenter?

Nope, just a LBMB and a 3-piece airlock. There's a good amount of headspace. And I have a Tilt floating in it at the moment.

 

[AlexKay]

I should add, the Tilt is practically sideways at this gravity.

 

[JimRausch]

Yeah, I'm going to be THAT guy. While one pack of Notty should be able to ferment a one G batch without any problem, I would be worried about the osmotic pressure that an OG of 1.144 would have. The yeast may not like it and never start. If it were me, I would start with a lower OG in the neighborhood of 1.090, and step feed it as fermentation proceeds. But, I hope you prove me wrong!

 

[jwelch1103]

Yeah, I'm going to be THAT guy. While one pack of Notty should be able to ferment a one G batch without any problem, I would be worried about the osmotic pressure that an OG of 1.144 would have. The yeast may not like it and never start. If it were me, I would start with a lower OG in the neighborhood of 1.090, and step feed it as fermentation proceeds. But, I hope you prove me wrong!

I agree, step feeding would be a good approach for that gravity.

 

[jerrylotto]

I keep some Chardonnay yeast around to finish off big beers that stall too early. I pitch it after fermentation slows or stops with my primary ale yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

Most of the wine, champagne and bottling yeasts do not ferment longer sugars. This means it's not going to lower the attenuation, once the shorter sugars are gone. The shorter sugars are usually gone first so these yeasts won't help in a stucked fermentation beer scenario. Cbc1 also does not ferment longer sugars.

 

[emptygrowler]

There is such a thing as osmotic pressure. While I can’t explain it well, I understand the concept. There is so much sugar that the yeast can’t survive and therefore it never even starts to ferment. here is a great podcast explaining high gravity beers and some explanation of osmotic pressure. I have listened to it a dozen times as each time i get more info that i missed the previous time. ‎The Brewing Network Presents | The Jamil Show: Brewing Big Beers - Brewing With Style 02-23-17 on Apple Podcasts

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What am I missing, or do I have wrong?

Not sure if you came across these ideas before you started brewing:

• There are liquid strains (like WLP099) are designed to ferment super high gravity wort.
• There are strains of yeast (like CBC-1) that are "killer yeast"
• As mentioned earlier, "step feeding" is a solid approach.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

‎The Brewing Network Presents | The Jamil Show: Brewing Big Beers - Brewing With Style 02-23-17 on Apple Podcasts

For those that have problems with Apple Podcasts, here's a direct link to the "Brewing Big Beers" podcast Brewing With Style: Brewing Big Beers | The Brewing Network

 

[AlexKay]

I'm happy to report that gravity is dropping about two points an hour right now, and has made it down to 1.132. So -- fingers crossed -- we've at least started fermentation adequately.

 

[hottpeper13]

I think Notty is a solid choice,I've used it many times in my 14% RIS. I first make a small beer, 5 gal at 1.044,mostly blonde ales.
The one I did at 1.134 I took some of the wort out of the boil after 10 min(about a qt) chilled and pitched onto the cake. When the wort was at pitching temp of 58*(Notty will ferment well at 55*) the vitality starter is pitched. There's about a 4-6 hr lag then you better have a blow off. When it slows (3-5 days) I bump the temp to 64* to finish,always between 1.019- 1.024.

 

[AlexKay]

Gotta love the Tilt. Gravity went down to 1.132, back up (over a few hours) to 1.137, then down (overnight) to 1.095, back up to 1.119, and now seems to be going back down. Airlock is bubbling, temperature has gone up (62 F in 60 F ambient) and there's krausen (though not too much yet), so ... gotta love the Tilt.

 

[MaxStout]

Gotta love the Tilt. Gravity went down to 1.132, back up (over a few hours) to 1.137, then down (overnight) to 1.095, back up to 1.119, and now seems to be going back down. Airlock is bubbling, temperature has gone up (62 F in 60 F ambient) and there's krausen (though not too much yet), so ... gotta love the Tilt.

You have anti-yeast in there, converting alcohol and CO2 back to sugar?

That doesn't bode well for Tilt reliability.

One more reason I'll hold off on getting one. (The other reason is that I ferment in stainless, set inside a ferm chamber converted from a freezer. Too many layers of Faraday shielding there--I doubt I'd get a good signal from it.)

 

[AlexKay]

I've got the same with respect to stainless and the freezer. I hung a Pi right over the freezer and had no trouble with signals until I started getting (many) more Tilts.

 

[TestTickle]

You have anti-yeast in there, converting alcohol and CO2 back to sugar?

That doesn't bode well for Tilt reliability.

One more reason I'll hold off on getting one. (The other reason is that I ferment in stainless, set inside a ferm chamber converted from a freezer. Too many layers of Faraday shielding there--I doubt I'd get a good signal from it.)

During active and especially aggressive fermentation, the Tilt is simply a victim of its environment. In my mind, it doesn't make it unreliable, you just have to take into account the environment. The more data points you have, the more "unreliable" it'll seem because of krausen and the storm that the yeast creates in the fermenter. With some yeast and also with higher gravity brews, if you watch the live data, you will literally watch the gravity bounce up and down until fermentation starts slowing down. If getting readings from Google Sheets, Brewfather, Brewer's Friend, etc., having the Tilt report every 30 or 60 minutes vs every 15 minutes will make the readings appear to be more reliable.

I currently have a beer finishing up with Wyeast 1968, and if anyone has used that stuff, it's a bizarre yeast. The readings were all over the place after the first 12-24 hours from the chunks that fly around with that stuff. Now accuracy on the other hand...I don't own Tilts because they are accurate, lol. But as a fermentation monitoring tool, they have been fantastic for me. They are like a window into your fermenter.

But yes, you may have issues with the signal if you use stainless AND have it inside of a freezer. I also use stainless (although the Anvils are not all that thick) and ferment inside a mini fridge. I have a RaspberryPi on the side of the fridge and the signal is great. Prior to that, I used an old iPhone that was several feet away and had only occasional and brief losses of signal.

 

[hotbeer]

My biggest beef with Tilt's are that I have to constantly have them monitored. I shouldn't have to geek out with raspberry pi's or use old cellphones to monitor them.

They'll be useful to me when I can just show up with my phone and poll them for stored data. Slightly more useful would be to also have them on wifi instead of bluetooth.

I don't guess I-spindles store data either, but I think they are on wi-fi which I suppose I could write my own program and run it on one of my servers that stay on all the time.

 

[MaxStout]

My biggest beef with Tilt's are that I have to constantly have them monitored. I shouldn't have to geek out with raspberry pi's or use old cellphones to monitor them.

They'll be useful to me when I can just show up with my phone and poll them for stored data. Slightly more useful would be to also have them on wifi instead of bluetooth.

I don't guess I-spindles store data either, but I think they are on wi-fi which I suppose I could write my own program and run it on one of my servers that stay on all the time.

If a product like that can't be fully functional plug & play right out of the box, they have missed a big chunk of marketing potential. No one should have to hack it with a raspberry pi or some such, just to operate a friggin' hydrometer.

 

[hotbeer]

If a product like that can't be fully functional plug & play right out of the box, they have missed a big chunk of marketing potential. No one should have to hack it with a raspberry pi or some such, just to operate a friggin' hydrometer.

That sums up my thinking on them.

Just to be clear, I don't have one. I really thought they'd be the thing to have until I realized that I have to constantly monitor it. So I've not looked at them since.

 

[MaxStout]

That sums up my thinking on them.

Just to be clear, I don't have one. I really thought they'd be the thing to have until I realized that I have to constantly monitor it. So I've not looked at them since.

It's kind of a neat bling thing for those who want to hack some gear, and many brewers swear by them. But for the reasons I mentioned, it's not practical for me--I can't justify dropping $130 for it. I have Brew Buckets, so I can always pour some beer to check with a regular hydrometer. I want one data point at a certain time, not have to monitor it over time to smooth the curve.

 

[TestTickle]

RaspberryPi integration is only one option. There are Android and iOS Tilt apps that offer quick monitoring of SG and temp right out of the box….literally no “hacking” or tweaking.

It’s more than bling if you have a use for it…just like anything else. For me, it’s been very useful over the few years that I have used them. For others, perhaps not so much.