☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

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I made an Excel doc where I keep notes on each roast (and roaster cleaning), documenting weight, preheat, 1C, 1C End, 2C (if aplicable), etc. I then note the changes I made during the roast (Button P5, then button P3 @10:00 and 270 degrees, etc...). I also note chamber wall temps for 30 second intervals after about 6:00 of roasting, which helps me when I'm trying to replicate roasts (and my voltage can very from 115 - 120 at my place, so this is pretty important for me). Finally, I take notes from each of my brewing/tasting methods.

I have a tab where I keep my favorite profiles for various beans I've roasted. I also have a tab where I note how long of a rest tasted best for my favorite profiles.

Sounds complicated. And I guess it kind of is, but it's been a work in progress and has helped me improve.
 
Chuginator said:
That said, interestingly enough, I use a hand-written brew log for beer. LOL!
Click to expand...

I know what you mean...I had a handwritten log for about 20 batches, because I thought it was nifty. Well guess what, it sucked. So I'm now in the process of transcribing everything to Google Sheets, which is taking a loooong time.
 
jammin said:
If you have instrumentation or a new Hottop, Artisan is an amazing tool for monitoring and logging roasts

https://github.com/MAKOMO/artisan/blob/master/README.md
Click to expand...

I remember you mentioning that before, and it looks like something I could have fun with, but the problem at this stage is that I'm just not aware of what an "acceptable" time to hit 1C for a 1lb. batch is. In other words, for me at this stage, any data is useless because it means nothing to me (I don't know what to compare it against). I remember you mentioning before that X amount of time was "baked" instead of roasted, so I'm wanting to make sure that isn't an issue with my Behmor and 1lb batches. I might have to do some research on coffeegeek or some such.
 
Oh crap!
Not ANOTHER project! LOL!
In the midst of an Arduino UNO based dry cure chamber and its not going very well. Plus about 4 other projects in various stages of completion. This is on my list too...

TD
 
jammin said:
If you have instrumentation or a new Hottop, Artisan is an amazing tool for monitoring and logging roasts

https://github.com/MAKOMO/artisan/blob/master/README.md
Click to expand...

I actually downloaded that last night after posting and doing some google searches. I don't have any instrumentation though, and as a roast log it didn't look very useful. Maybe i was missing something?

I kind of figure that I'll just go with a spreadsheet like others have mentioned. Basically use the SM roast notebook fields and what i wrote down for previous batches as a starting point.

I need to roast some decaf for my wife today, so I think i'll start putting the spreadsheet together.
 
^not very useful for "note taking" at all.

My advice to novice roasters looking for useful notes: don't get too caught up in the minutiae. Log warm up times, roaster settings prior to charge. Time to 1C and time from there to finish. Then overall perceived roast level/cupping notes. I've done the paper/pen thing and it can get distracting quickly.
 
Hand ground some coffee from @harbortownbrewing on the Lido 2 this morning.

The aroma has tea and dark berries in the background. HUGE body. Thanks for sharing, HTB!

294hzs3.jpg
 
Reading the book by Scott Rao "The Coffee Roaster's Companion" 2014.
Pretty good stuff! Offers a bit of scientific perspective, which I enjoy. It's a short book, but so far I'm enjoying!

Anybody have suggestions on sourcing some green Kona beans during a summer vacation to Hawaii?

TD
 
TrickyDick said:
I assume that this would be grown in Maui? I've no interest in buying roasted coffee beans. Need to investigate and research....

TD
Click to expand...

yes. a "cultivar" nearly lost which has gained some fan fair over the last few years. very small beans that boast a reported lovely milk chocolate flavor. i understand they make a KILLER shot of espresso. never roasted them myself.

i'll never pay geisha/90+ prices for over-hyped, low grown Hawaiian coffee. Jamaican Blue Bottle is in the same boat.

These coffee were originally prized waaayyyy back in the day when people wanted "boring" coffee. Due to their non-existent acidity and lack of bold flavors, they got a lot of hype. Marketing had a lot to do with it as well.
 
Thanks for the info on that coffee! I'll try to see what I can find out.

So read most of the book tonight. Some really interesting stuff!
I think this book really tries to apply some science, albeit the recommendations come at the subjective though respected opinion of the author, as to what is best, coupled with non-referenced data about the "best" roasts he's ever tasted.... Well that part was sort of hokey. However, since I'm a noob and he is a professional, I'm going to assume that I'll like the coffee that is made by following his recommendations or commandments as he calls them. There are only three. The downside, is that what seems to be one of the most important commandments, will likely require an electronic and possibly realtime graph of the ROR....
Looks like that artisan mod is coming sooner than I'd wanted. It would seem that making a graph in real time would not be possible otherwise, but I suppose you would be able to set a video camera to record the temp probe readout, and a timer, and then manually enter data points to construct a graph. That's too much work for me though... Seems that you can roughly predict the ROR graph from the bean temp graphs. Seem that mods are inevitable....

The book is not aimed at home roasters, though the concepts mostly translate. The biggest thing I struggle with is the fan speed for controlling airflow. I don't think the advice given translates to home half pound roasters.

TD
 
jammin said:
Artisan show RoR for bean and MET. It was too much for my eyes and mind at first. Now I can't live without it
Click to expand...

I don't see what MET stands for (mean environmental temp?)

I think I am starting to see some logic in the methods to the madness of roasting: learning how a bean behaves to your input to try and control the ROR and achieve the roast color/weight loss you want. With the graphs, you can easily see how the bean reacts, but you would need to add annotations to it, order to see what you were changing on the roaster to achieve that graph.

So how difficult is it to run artisan on a hottop?
What additional temp probes need to be installed and how?

TD
 
MET = max enviro temp. It can be different things in different systems but it all measures the hottest air the beans can be subject to. My roaster has a probe in the shell where the elements are located. This helps me understand what is being vented to the beans. VERY helpful late in the roast. Can be the difference between a stalled roast and a delicate stretch

Doesn't your HT have a USB port?
https://www.hottopusa.com/news.html

You could probably upgrade if it doesn't.
If not, the rear wall is easily accessible and is a great location to add probes.
 
That's not what my unit looks like. I don't know if it has a USB or not, I suspect not. At least not in the manual.

Edit - I emailed Randy at hottop about this, upgrading...

Edit 2- $460 upgrade kit....

So would that let you directly interface with artisan (running on a ?)
TD

edit 1-well, seems that Artisan can run on a PC/Mac/Linux or some Arduino devices with appropriate hardware. If I get the expensive kit I can natively interface with the HotTop with appropriate software installed. That is pretty cool.

edit 2-So is there a spreadsheet that lets me input time and temp data from a roast to display a ROR graph??
 
So I was told that if I buy the upgrade, that I could sell my take off parts as an upgrade kit, valued at $230 new for at least half that price on certain forums. Anybody know which ones??

I did a manual ROR calculation using temp readings taken at 30 second intervals. Not the best resolution I know. There were two spots where the resolution is probably too low, and shows a rise in ROR, at about 320°, and immediately after 1C begins, which I think is probably bogus. Some flat areas too despite, 100% power, from 3-5.5 minutes. I had bumped fan here due to increasing smoke. Hit 1C just past 7 minute mark. According to book, I should've ejected before 10 minute mark, and would've been better to hit 1C at 8:15 with an 11:00 min dump at 393°. Seems I should've eased a bit off heat sooner. I dropped to 70% at 6 minutes (343°).
Worst was the bump in ROR after then ten minute mark when beans were only at 383.

At least it seems I have an idea what to do to fix....
Trying to do in reverse by analyzing my data is different than on the fly adjustments during roast. I assume that comes with either experience, or using artisan!!
TD
 
Coffeegeek has the largest BST forum for you TD. I'm a long standing member there and would be happy to vouch for you.

Home Barista has a BST forum as well with a more "high end customer base" with less site traffic.

Not sure if you still had a question about RoR, but this is displayed in real time with Artisan.
 
jammin said:
Coffeegeek has the largest BST forum for you TD. I'm a long standing member there and would be happy to vouch for you.

Home Barista has a BST forum as well with a more "high end customer base" with less site traffic.

Not sure if you still had a question about RoR, but this is displayed in real time with Artisan.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I will check out those forums. I'm thinking about getting the hottop kit. It might be costly, but it'll be easier to install with less fear of ruining it. Plus it'll be plug and play with a laptop where I can easily save and display all the graphs rather than try to interface a DIY rig with a computer. Will have to sell the "kit" takeoff parts after.

Seems my pen and paper is showing me I'm making some errors, but too late to notice or adjust. I'd like to see about coming up with a calculator that'll let me put in when 1C begins to advise when to end the roast (book says 75-80% done when you hit 1C, but hints at an even more precise sweet spot within that range). I think even with real time ROR data, once you stall or rise, it's too late already. But at least it would be easier to learn how to correct rather than post roast analysis and review, then try again next time, so I think there is real value to the artisan in getting the most from the beans. It's sort of like learning to photograph on film vs digital in some ways.

TD
 
Oh you're gonna love this then....

Artisan allows you to enter project 1C temp as a setting(same with drying and 2C). Artisan will then give you real time estimates of when this will occur as the roast develops.
 
jammin said:
Oh you're gonna love this then....

Artisan allows you to enter project 1C temp as a setting(same with drying and 2C). Artisan will then give you real time estimates of when this will occur as the roast develops.
Click to expand...

Crap. Spending too much $$ lately. Swmbo will not be happy....
I'll probably need to wait BUT, the kit is ready to ship NOW.
Also Randy says the new heating element is more powerful and he was for instance able to roast 360g to FC in 14 minutes, claimed a high Charge temp (400-425) would scorch beans. This after I asked if the CT can be set to avoid the nagging beeps... The book says that you will apply enough heat early on to get good inner bean development. Too low a CT seems to be a potential big problem in that respect.
I sure do want to pull the trigger....but...I probably need to wait at least a month.


Edit- Yeah um.. I couldn't resist.
 
Mashing a Saison this morning, and enjoying a few cups of Gedeo Worka, compliments of @jammin. It's a lighter roast than I normally drink, just because I never have had good luck with the light roasts maybe I just never gave them enough rest time. When I got this one it didn't smell much like a coffee, but when I got to it today it smelled amazing as soon as I opened the bag. The bloom provided a heavy blueberry scent, and in the cup im getting blueberry with a subtle hint of citrus, just a little spice as well.

Very nicely done, sir. I was disappointed I didn't get to try it the last week, but it was well worth the wait.

View attachment 1432999246261.jpg
 
Downloaded and installed Artisan on MacBook. The upgrade kit arrives Thursday. Hope its not too hard to operate the Artisan application.
So does it just monitor what the Hottop is doing, or does it assume full control over the hottop?
I'll probably be doing several roasts on Thursday to try it out. Can always give some beans to the mother in law (only other coffee drinker in the family).

TD
 
ICYMI: Sweet Maria's dropped 10 new coffees yesterday.

I don't always go for gauts as they can be kinda boring IMHO. HueHue's are usually a solid pick though, esp when you can find them in a Pacamara varietal. This one right here sounds like a really fine selection and probably the most appealing of all the new offerings - im getting 5lbs:
https://www.sweetmarias.com/store/guatemala-huehuetenango-hoja-blanca.html

If you missed the last Colombian(like i somehow did), this one looks pretty solid. Im leary of the notes claiming "deep sweetness" with a rating of only 8.6 on the cupping chart. Im getting 2lbs anyways after missing the last boat
https://www.sweetmarias.com/store/colombia-herrera-finca-las-florestales.html


If you've never had a Yemeni coffee before, you really ought to consider trying one. They are unique to say the least and becomming more and more scarce (due to conflict in the country). Most of the coffees are dried on roof tops and patios. The beans often look like they are swept up off the floor (b/c they probably are) and you'll wonder what in the actual heck you just bought. Let me tell though, this coffee must be tasted in order to understand. The flavors are like no other origin and can do well into darker roasts if you're into that. KILLER for an addition to an espresso blend (pair it with an ethiopian). They almost always prefer a good rest too. If you're used to drinking your coffee the day of or after - roast this early and camp on it for 4 or 5 days.
this was my selection of the two, although both looked fantastic (i got 2lbs)
https://www.sweetmarias.com/store/yemen-mokha-bani-haraz.html
 
Thanks for the heads up! I nabbed some of the Yemeni beans on your recommendation. Looking out for some Kenyan and Ethiopian beans soon. Let me know when you spot a great bean from these spots, as you've not steered me wrong yet!!
 
Thanks for the heads up, @jammin. I ordered all three along with some ethiopain to blend. Thinking about it, should have thrown in some decaf for the wife as well, she's been drinking more coffee lately...
 
jammin said:
Oh you're gonna love this then....

Artisan allows you to enter project 1C temp as a setting(same with drying and 2C). Artisan will then give you real time estimates of when this will occur as the roast develops.
Click to expand...

Seems about 354-356 1C usually begins or about to begin.

I took decent temp and time records and used that on the second half pound of Ethiopian beans I had. Tweaked it a bit for the second roast to get the 1C at about the 75-80% of total roast time. Worked pretty good. Had a couple flat spots on the manual ROR graphs with 30 sec resolution, and had a slight rise too, which I'm hoping I can learn to eliminate with the artisan to help me.


Finished the Rao book. It was short. Also read his Ebook about espresso extraction, which was filled with interesting information. It's making me want to buy a coffee %TDS meter now though. Must... Resist.....
Instead I bought another of his books: everything but espresso.

TD
 
those TDS meters look pretty cool. it would be very useful for grinder calibration. i *think* you can actually rent one from espressoparts.com. i know they used to rent out scace devices as well.
 
jammin said:
those TDS meters look pretty cool. it would be very useful for grinder calibration. i *think* you can actually rent one from espressoparts.com. i know they used to rent out scace devices as well.
Click to expand...

I found a cheap TDS meter on Amazon for $9.99

The Hottop USB upgrade kit was delivered. It also permits more precise control of the heating element in 1% increments instead of 10%, and of the fan in 10% increments instead of 25%. I am told also it is a more powerful heating element.

TD
 
^thats huge. Looking forward to hearing your progress w/the roaster upgrade.

Really interested to hear how the TDS meter works out. The original coffee specific meters were very spendy
 
Swapping out the new parts took SIGNIFICANTLY longer than I expected....

Seems to be working. Doing the dry roast now to burn off any oils, etc.

Hope that the digital connection stuff works after putting it all back together..

Even in manual mode, the display and controls are better IMHO than the previous. Dials to adjust each parameter vs a select button and up/down adjust buttons.

TD
 
I had been working on a Nicaragua from Theta Ridge. The Roast #1 I screwed up completely, Roast #2 came out pretty well. So on my third/fourth attempts I went with a ~FC roast, and a City roast to see how they compare.

I was going to rest the City roast (Roast #4) for about a week or more before trying it, and drink the FC (Roast #3) until it was time to move on. So, I'm excited to see how this one comes out and I go to use the Chemex and of course, I ran out of filters. 100 filters used since Christmas, so that's a pretty decent pace.

Anyways, I tried #3 (FC) in the Press and wow it was much different than the other attempts. Very sweet and creamy, with a little caramel. I checked Theta Ridge's description and bingo that is actually exactly what they described. It was definitely missing the citrus and acidic flavors I had gotten out of it when I tried the previous roasts in the Chemex.

I forgot how much a difference there is between the Press and the Chemex. I've defaulted to the Chemex as my every-day coffee maker since it's easy to clean and I like the flavors it gives for Ethiopians/Kenyans (which I've been drinking a lot of the last 2 months), but I need to make a point to try each roast in both brewing methods.

Heck, it'd be interesting to blend a pot of press and chemex coffees into a single cup to see how the result.
 
Was thinking that it might be cool if we could get a post that summarizes specific varietal suggested roast profiles so it's easy to find (for noobs like me) when we get a new bean to work with. I have forgotten quite a bit of the suggestions posted on working the various beans.

Dunno if a moderator could help us with that or make a new thread for it or a sticky....

TD
 
my SM order showed up today; just in time i might add.

i roasted 2 batches of the guat. 1st one went really well and i got totally side tracked on the 2nd. nearly got away from me so we'll see how it cups. I blended them both post roast and saved enough for 1 cup of each to compare. similar curves, but roast 2 hit all marks slightly quicker and finished 2 degrees higher.

f36c8l.jpg


2z829nt.jpg
 
Looking better than my roasts!


Might need some help in figuring out how to use Artisan to help me roast better coffee. I'm not sure I totally understand all that's going on.

Ran three batches of the peaberries through tonight.
New hardware is impressive. The heating coil is DEFINITELY more powerful. Significantly more smoke going on, and the roast aroma is also more intense. Need to dial back. Roasted my first two batches too dark. Botched the curve/graph save on the first two. Saved it on the last one. Might need help on how to save the curves for comparison.

One thing is for sure.... this bumps it to a whole new level. I think it is hard to interpret the data while you are actually roasting until you get the smoothed curve when you click the END button, its hard for me to figure out whats happening...

edit-

what's the display you have there Jammin' ? I dont' have the red line like that on my graph. Need some education on the Artisan app!!





TD
 
^TD - Artisan is a BLUR for your first few roasts. My brain was scrambled when I first tried it out.

Give it time. You will get used to it
 
Good to know!
What I am really after is predictive ROR data, so I can try to control the ROR curve in real time. I don't think it projects this, but I wasn't expecting that. It seems that will come with experience. I think that's probably the most difficult thing to do and will require lots of time and many many roasts to gain insight into. I can't imagine trying it without the Artisan software though. Using the new hardware with supercharged heating element it seems, combined with the Artisan software was indeed like a mind wipe.

One thing I REALLY like is overriding control and eliminating the annoying beeps. To charge the roaster to higher charge temps required three annoying series of beeps, and two button presses with countdowns to avoid an automatic safety dump and then a long cool down period. Now I can remove that entirely. Plus I can do an immediate back-to-back roast eliminating a cool down if I desire. You can also run the cool down period longer if you wish, which I find helpful in the Florida temps since I roast in my outdoor kitchen.

I think the finer control of the new hardware is a huge plus. Can control the heater to 1% increments, and fan to 10% natively and also through Artisan. I think this will be a huge help in getting the ROR curves under control for a steady decline. It is still strange to see the effect of running the fan on the Bean Temp curve. Learning to use the fan seems to be the oddest part about roasting to me.

TD
 
So, based on reading at SM and other places, i had thought the P1 program on the Behmor was 100% power to the heating elements the whole time. I had noticed in the past that they seem to cycle off some several minutes into the roast, much like the on/off cycle that it does when on a lower power setting. So, on this roast, when i noticed that happen, i hit the P5 button to switch to manual mode and set to 100% power. This roast went from yellow to brown more quickly, and got to 1c before any other 1/2lb batch that I've done in manual mode (switching to P4 around the browning stage on each roast).

So, fellow behmor users, is this a fluke, or is the P1 setting not really going at 100% the entire time? It took about 9:25 to get to 1c on this batch, all others took at 10:30 or more (except one decaf batch that took 10:00).
 

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