☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[banesong]

I don't know about it being a stale taste, but I definitely noticed an odd taste when I made coffee with beans that had about 18 hours rest. I think you'll find it's much better tomorrow.

Taste has improved a bit, but still has a 'stale' undercurrent'. Will roast again and try to go a bit longer.

 

[roastquake]

It's best to let coffees rest 24-48 hours before drinking, the reason is because fresh roasted coffee degasses in that time frame. The whole time coffee is roasting it is letting out various gasses and that process continues for up to two days. That is why when you put fresh roasted coffee in a sealed bag, that bag will fill with air and plump up like a balloon. Flavors also continue to develop during the degassing period. I've found that if you brew coffee too early, it will be weak in flavor unless you increase the coffee-to-water ratio

 

[passedpawn]

I've found that if you brew coffee too early, it will be weak in flavor unless you increase the coffee-to-water ratio

I found this to be very true. My first roast I had to double the amount of coffee to get a pot. Now that I let the roasted beans sit a week, I'm back to normal amount of coffee per pot.

 

[banesong]

Hehe. Makes me think of the beginners brew kits that say bottle after 7 days.

I will keep notes on the flavor over the coming week. Thanks.

 

[passedpawn]

well damn, I roasted about 3# of Yirga Cheffe in my Whirley Popper, on the coals tonight. My Whirley decided to give up the ghost. The handle axle just spun in the plastic gear that turns the plastic gear that turns the spindle that stirs the coffee. Just damned.

So, I roasted anyway. I tossed the entire top of the assembly and stirred the bunch of coffee seeds with a steel spoon. Had to hold the pot with my silicone gloves, but it all was not a really big deal. Unfortunatley, I went too far with the roast and ended up between a French roast and charcoal. Yikes. I meant to roast a little longer, as an experiment, but went too long.

 

[blizzard]

So you had the whirley pop with the plastic gears? I heard you should get the one with the metal gears, but they are quite a bit more money. I also considered just getting an old pot at Goodwill and using a wooden spoon. I suppose if I get the whirley pop I'll get the metal one, but now I'm curious about your pot & spoon experience.

 

[passedpawn]

So you had the whirley pop with the plastic gears? I heard you should get the one with the metal gears, but they are quite a bit more money. I also considered just getting an old pot at Goodwill and using a wooden spoon. I suppose if I get the whirley pop I'll get the metal one, but now I'm curious about your pot & spoon experience.

OK, the pot and spoon worked OK. I used a large metal spoon, about 3 ft long ( I used to stir my mash with it). But I roasted over hot coals, in my grill, and since I had to hold the pot I had to wear silicone gloves. The flames were licking up around the pot and the whole scene was pretty hairy. Worked out OK, but not great. I was doing about 2.5#, I wonder if the whirley pop would have turned over that quantity good enough to get an even roast.

I didn't do it on my stove because the glasstop can get scratched from all the pot movement. At least that is a concern of mine, not sure if it could really happen.

I'm going to replace the Whirley Pop, probably with the better one that you mentioned. It works very very well.

 

[passedpawn]

Here's a picture of the resulting coffee. It's not as bad as I originally thought. In fact, might work out perfectly since I intended to go for a slightly darker roast than what I've been doing.

 

[Chuginator]

Been using a Bonavita 1800 coffee maker, which delivers water at 200F and makes all the difference in the world. I know they're expensive, but it's something I decided to treat myself to and I've never looked back.

Is an experiment, this morning I fired up the old Mr. Coffee and used the same beans I've been consuming all week.

Two words: Muted. Lifeless.

If you love your coffee and you think you're worth it and you can muster to save the pennies, I strongly recommend it (or a Bunn, or whatever- 200F water is the key).

Not convinced? Find someone that has a decent maker and give it a try with your beans and see what you think.

 

[geoffm33]

Been using a Bonavita 1800 coffee maker, which delivers water at 200F and makes all the difference in the world. I know they're expensive, but it's something I decided to treat myself to and I've never looked back.

Is an experiment, this morning I fired up the old Mr. Coffee and used the same beans I've been consuming all week.

Two words: Muted. Lifeless.

If you love your coffee and you think you're worth it and you can muster to save the pennies, I strongly recommend it (or a Bunn, or whatever- 200F water is the key).

Not convinced? Find someone that has a decent maker and give it a try with your beans and see what you think.

I agree, I use a chemex and pour 200° water over. It's a world of difference when you use the right temperature.

 

[jammin]

^agreed about brewing water temp.

Grinder is key though as well. If you don't have a solid burr grinder - you have no idea what you're missing. I cant emphasize that enough. Baratza is guaranteed quality grinds and breville makes one called the smart grinder that is solid.

If you're not grinding the coffee properly and brewing at the proper temps; i hate to say it, your coffee sucks.

 

[roastquake]

Here's a picture of the resulting coffee. It's not as bad as I originally thought. In fact, might work out perfectly since I intended to go for a slightly darker roast than what I've been doing.

Looks great! Yirgacheffe is usually the exception but with most Ethiopians you can expect an uneven roast, especially the natural (dry) processed ones. The reason is they don't typically screen for size, except Yirga, which is generally the only wet processed coffee which is screened for size. To me the different size beans just gives the coffee more character.

About the whirly, that's exactly what happened to mine and that's why I just use a spoon now

 

[Chuginator]

^agreed about brewing water temp.

Grinder is key though as well. If you don't have a solid burr grinder - you have no idea what you're missing. I cant emphasize that enough. Baratza is guaranteed quality grinds and breville makes one called the smart grinder that is solid.

If you're not grinding the coffee properly and brewing at the proper temps; i hate to say it, your coffee sucks.

LOL! We need to talk!

I've also read on the CoffeeGeeks forum - some were saying that the grinder makes the most impact. However, I just can't quite wrap my head around that, unless they're referring to espresso? Does it really have that huge of an impact with drip?

I even remember Michael Symon being quizzed about coffee once, and he was saying that consistent grinds are key to a good cup. I dismissed it as a reference to espresso grinds, where I thought it'd be more critical.

When I considered a burr grinder I was also looking at the Baratza, but just haven't pulled the trigger on it - because it is expensive, and if it doesn't make a real big difference for drip compared to a whirly grinder, then I'm probably going to drag my feet. However, if you tell me that it makes a noticeable improvement (again, for drip), then I'm going to get serious about it, buy one, compare, and report.

As a side question, which model of Baratza do you have?

 

[jammin]

^ive literally spent thousands on coffee equipment over the years from espresso to drip.

The grinder is the key piece of equipment no matter the preparation (spro/drip). I've used almost all the baratza grinders and the Virtuoso is about the best for drip. I'm currently using a Vario-W with upgraded Ditting burrs. I pair that with a digital kettle for very consistent results.

Check with Kyle at baratza for a refurb Virtuoso - it will be the best money you've ever spent. If you get one - Id be happ to send you some home roast

 

[TallDan]

The consistent grind that you get from a good burr grinder is important regardless of how you brew the coffee. Of course, some brewing methods are more sensitive to the grind consistency than others, but it affects all kinds. Your brew temperature and time are a constant with a drip brewer, but that temperature and time may be overextracting or underextracting the coffee during brewing depending on the grind of the coffee. If the grind is inconsistent, you can overextract the finer ground coffee while underextracting the coarser ground coffee. When you use a burr grinder, you first get a consistent grind and second can adjust it for optimum extraction.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I don't have much experience with grinding. I get my coffee espresso ground when I buy it. this last batch I got I used the grinder in the grocery store, which I have never done before. my espresso machine hardly pushes through it. I tested with coarser ground coffee and that extracts fine (as well as one could possibly expect anyway). could the espresso ground be too fine? there was one setting on the grinder past espresso, but I'm damn sure I didn't set it there since I have a setting OCD issue.

 

[Chuginator]

^ive literally spent thousands on coffee equipment over the years from espresso to drip.

The grinder is the key piece of equipment no matter the preparation (spro/drip). I've used almost all the baratza grinders and the Virtuoso is about the best for drip. I'm currently using a Vario-W with upgraded Ditting burrs. I pair that with a digital kettle for very consistent results.

Check with Kyle at baratza for a refurb Virtuoso - it will be the best money you've ever spent. If you get one - Id be happ to send you some home roast

Thank you for the input. I think you have me convinced. I'll keep my eyes open for a Virtuoso refurb. As for the home roast - I've got that covered, but thank you very much for the offer!

 

[TallDan]

I don't have much experience with grinding. I get my coffee espresso ground when I buy it. this last batch I got I used the grinder in the grocery store, which I have never done before. my espresso machine hardly pushes through it. I tested with coarser ground coffee and that extracts fine (as well as one could possibly expect anyway). could the espresso ground be too fine? there was one setting on the grinder past espresso, but I'm damn sure I didn't set it there since I have a setting OCD issue.

It should take something around 25 seconds to make shots of espresso. The grind is key, but not the only factor in how long it takes to brew. I adjust the grinder from one shot to the next depending on how it's brewing, it will depends on the roast level, freshness, and type of coffee.

I'd strongly advise you to get a burr grinder. It's going to be very difficult to consistently get good espresso without it, ground coffee does not say fresh very long at all.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

It should take something around 25 seconds to make shots of espresso. The grind is key, but not the only factor in how long it takes to brew. I adjust the grinder from one shot to the next depending on how it's brewing, it will depends on the roast level, freshness, and type of coffee.

I'd strongly advise you to get a burr grinder. It's going to be very difficult to consistently get good espresso without it, ground coffee does not say fresh very long at all.

that in no way answered my question of the possibility of the coffee being too finely ground from the grocery stores grinder. thanks for the other info though!

 

[jammin]

that in no way answered my question of the possibility of the coffee being too finely ground from the grocery stores grinder. thanks for the other info though!

what he was trying to say was, there is no way to know. flow rate can be affected by the type of coffee and the amount dosed. it can also be influenced by how old the coffee is (how long ago it was roasted). pre-ground is also a complete "no-no" for coffee, especially espresso.

in any case - it is entirely possible that your coffee is ground "too fine". it is also hard to say, as we do not know what kind of machine you're using.

1 helpful question you can answer: are you using a pressurized porta-filter? these are characterized by a flow restrictor which causes pressure to build in the filter basket and assist with building crema. In a "real" espresso machine, the porta-filter is non-pressurized and allows the user to select their preferred filter basket.

If you have a cheap espresso machine, these normally have pressurized filter baskets. These type of filter baskets do not need a fine, traditional espresso range grind range due to the nature of the basket.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

what he was trying to say was, there is no way to know. flow rate can be affected by the type of coffee and the amount dosed. it can also be influenced by how old the coffee is (how long ago it was roasted). pre-ground is also a complete "no-no" for coffee, especially espresso.

in any case - it is entirely possible that your coffee is ground "too fine". it is also hard to say, as we do not know what kind of machine you're using.

1 helpful question you can answer: are you using a pressurized porta-filter? these are characterized by a flow restrictor which causes pressure to build in the filter basket and assist with building crema. In a "real" espresso machine, the porta-filter is non-pressurized and allows the user to select their preferred filter basket.

If you have a cheap espresso machine, these normally have pressurized filter baskets. These type of filter baskets do not need a fine, traditional espresso range grind range due to the nature of the basket.

I'm a weekend warrior with espresso. thought that was quite obvious with what I was saying & asking. but again, thanks for the info. I'll go back to what I was getting before the issue began. I'd learn more about all the intricacies of coffee, but my brain is full of beer & welding.

 

[HoppyDaze]

that in no way answered my question of the possibility of the coffee being too finely ground from the grocery stores grinder. thanks for the other info though!

Love this response

 

[Chuginator]

Well, I picked up a Baratza Virtuoso, and have been tinkering with it. I tried both extremes of the recommended range for drip (16 - 32). 32 was way too coarse and the body suffered badly. 16 was definitely the better option! Tried the 18-22 ranges too, but am favoring the finer grind. 14 was approaching the area where the water wasn't filtering through the paper filter well.

Gotta say though - I still think the coffee maker itself made much more of an impact on flavor than the grinder, and the coffee didn't suck making it with a whirly; but it is improved with a burr grinder.

 

[banesong]

Is there anyone in the DC area on this thread? I am uncertain on the quality of my roast and would love some feedback.

 

[ajrunningbiking]

Well, I picked up a Baratza Virtuoso, and have been tinkering with it. I tried both extremes of the recommended range for drip (16 - 32). 32 was way too coarse and the body suffered badly. 16 was definitely the better option! Tried the 18-22 ranges too, but am favoring the finer grind. 14 was approaching the area where the water wasn't filtering through the paper filter well.

Gotta say though - I still think the coffee maker itself made much more of an impact on flavor than the grinder, and the coffee didn't suck making it with a whirly; but it is improved with a burr grinder.

The key to the coffee maker is water temp, too low, not enough extraction. I don't own any fancy drip coffee maker. I will say having gone through a few in my day. Having a good grinder helps to dial in the grind to your coffee maker. A technivorm brewer is on my wish list one of these days!!

 

[TallDan]

The key to the coffee maker is water temp, too low, not enough extraction. I don't own any fancy drip coffee maker. I will say having gone through a few in my day. Having a good grinder helps to dial in the grind to your coffee maker. A technivorm brewer is on my wish list one of these days!!

For anyone on the fence, it seems to me that a technivorm is a "buy once, cry once" type of purchase. A couple years ago when my wife and I were registering for our wedding, we were given the advice to register for a coffee maker because "they only last about 5 years, and that way you'll have a backup". Well, the only coffee maker we registered for was a chemex pourover because I've had my Technivorm for over 10 years now and it has never had any issue whatsoever. It's also fairly simply built so that the few parts that may wear can be simply replaced. The carafe in mine may be replaced soon as it's starting to show some wear.

 

[EddieB_LTB]

I'm considering it quality control to pick out a couple beans that look a little underroasted while cooling and eat them.

Some of the light colored beans are called stink beans/Quakers. These should be taken out before brewing because they can in part off flavors. Often times you will find these little buggers in coffees that have gone through the natural process of drying which produces some of the more interesting characteristics to be found in coffee but tends to contain more defects. In small home roasting batches it is easy enough to pick them out. Hope this helps...

 

[FloridaMarine]

New to home brewing but I have been roasting for 8 years. Glad to answer anyone's questions. I roast with a SC/TO. Have built a few poppery roasters also.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I stumbled across this thread by complete accident last week. Got crazy enough to buy some green beans on my way home from work and roasted them up in a whirly pop I had laying around. Delicious.

Question though: I was cranking the whirly pop the whole time, and I didn't really hear much of a "first crack" sound. Maybe I heard some popping very faintly around 7 or 8 mins in. When I lifted the lid and looked at 10 mins, they were darker than I had hoped to get. They probably turned out more like a Vienna roast, while I wanted something lighter, like a City roast.

So, the question is, how loud is the cracking we are to be listening for?

Thanks everyone for posting thus far - it was encouragement for me to get into it.

 

[passedpawn]

I stumbled across this thread by complete accident last week. Got crazy enough to buy some green beans on my way home from work and roasted them up in a whirly pop I had laying around. Delicious.

Question though: I was cranking the whirly pop the whole time, and I didn't really hear much of a "first crack" sound. Maybe I heard some popping very faintly around 7 or 8 mins in. When I lifted the lid and looked at 10 mins, they were darker than I had hoped to get. They probably turned out more like a Vienna roast, while I wanted something lighter, like a City roast.

So, the question is, how loud is the cracking we are to be listening for?

Thanks everyone for posting thus far - it was encouragement for me to get into it.

The cracking is pretty loud to me. Sounds a lot like popcorn. I can't really discern the 1st crack from the second, so I go by color and time.

It's better to pull it a little early. The beans keep cooking and darkening for a minute or two after you pull it off the heat. If you see oils coming out of the beans, you went too far. The oils do seem to leak out after a few days, but if you see them during cooking it's gone past vienna in my experience.