☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[TrickyDick]

I'm not on FB. Honestly, the fact that the bullet community seems to be centered there goes solidly in the negative column for me. I don't see a lot of good conversation about the bullet outside of there, but a monoculture of people who roast on the bullet (while useful to current owners) isn't likely to provide the kind of balanced discussion I'm looking for right now anyway. I saw that there is an aillio forum as well, have you joined that? Is there much useful discussion/information there?

I am really considering the bullet though. It checks a lot of boxes for a roaster for me, and the super small batches aren't a deal breaker, just a consideration. It seems to me that any roaster is going to have a sweet spot and a range for batch size, I'm just trying to get an idea if the sweet spot and range of the bullet is a good match for me.

If I got an email notification from SM right now that they were in stock, I'd give myself 50% odds of ordering before they sell out. There's also another roaster for sale locally that is awfully tempting, if the seller decides that they're a little flexible on price, I could easily go in that direction instead, and even if they stay firm I may go for it. It's a rough life for my bank account these days...

The bullet also has a user pseudo forum, called roast world if you want to explore that without using “Facebook” (I hear you about FB)

 

[TrickyDick]

While I'm inclined to agree with you on this point, I'm not entirely convinced. I don't think you can directly compare the bullet to a Mill City, Sonofresco, or Diedrich. While home roasters may comparison shop those, home roasting is not the target market for them. They are sample roasters that behave similarly to their bigger brothers. In fact, I don't think any of those three (or SF, Probat or the others) really want any part of the home/hobbiest roasting market unless it's a gateway to starting a business and moving up to a bigger roaster. Just a quick look at their websites makes that pretty clear to me. The bullet doesn't have a production roasting big brother, so sampling in it with the intent to scale up to a production batch is not as useful to a pro.

So, that leaves you with competition from the quest m3, huky, hot top, etc. All of which are significantly less expensive than the bullet. The bullet easily has them beat on features, so that justifies the price jump. So far, Aillio has proven that there is enough room at the high end of home roaster market for them to play, and right now they can't keep up with demand, so resale value of a bullet is effectively the same as new due to limited supply. But what happens in a year when they meet demand and SM can easily keep them in stock? How many home roasters really want to pay $2500 for a roaster when they know they can get great results with a whirlypop or a popcorn popper? Could we see the price of used bullets take a dive once aillio can keep up with demand and hobbyists either lose interest or go pro and and no longer have a use for the bullet?

Like I said, I'm inclined to agree with you, and I think Aillio could increase their prices right now. However, they need to be careful, they don't know how big their market really is, and it would be easy to overestimate that, then boom and bust. If they do that, home roasters lose.

They have planned a larger roaster called the bullseye. I forget but could be 2-3 kg I want to say?

 

[TallDan]

They have planned a larger roaster called the bullseye. I forget but could be 2-3 kg I want to say?

Hot Top has had a bigger roaster planned for years. Same with Behmor. I have more confidence in Aillio right now then the two of them, but the track record for home roaster makers scaling up their products is not good.

And the only reason why I brought that up is to put the price of Mill City, Probat and similar sample roasters into the perspective of their real target markets. I would actually prefer it if Aillio came out with a smaller roaster. Call it the BB and eat Hot Top's lunch. 1lb max batch size and $1800. I don't think I could resist a pre-order for that.

 

[Inkleg]

if you wouldn't mind a tall muppet from the internet showing up at your house.

Why do we always come here
I guess we'll never know
It's like a kind of torture
To have to watch the show

Loved Statler and Waldorf

 

[TallDan]

Why do we always come here
I guess we'll never know
It's like a kind of torture
To have to watch the show

Loved Statler and Waldorf

That line there is why I chose this avatar picture.

Not in reference to this thread though.

 

[applescrap]

I like the sax player with gold teeth and the long haired hippy. I hope to score a commercial roaster some day on craigslist for a deal, dunno how realistic that is or of if I would even like it. If you can afford it you will probably like it.

 

[TrickyDick]

Hot Top has had a bigger roaster planned for years. Same with Behmor. I have more confidence in Aillio right now then the two of them, but the track record for home roaster makers scaling up their products is not good.

And the only reason why I brought that up is to put the price of Mill City, Probat and similar sample roasters into the perspective of their real target markets. I would actually prefer it if Aillio came out with a smaller roaster. Call it the BB and eat Hot Top's lunch. 1lb max batch size and $1800. I don't think I could resist a pre-order for that.

I couldn't agree more! That would be impressive! I will say I was skeptical, but it CAN do 1kg. Probably not doing the best job at it, but its got the power. From what I've read they have a new induction power board coming out to retrofit the 1st gen boards that will improve the function even more. I have the 220V version because why not - more power. They've specifically neutered the 220V output so it roasts the same as the 120V. Someday I predict a hack or unlock to give true control to roaster to use unfettered power. I don't need a 1kg roaster, but a 1lb roaster or 1/2 kilo is perfect for home user. It seems I've been struggling because I been using subprime beans that are old and not well stored - can't wait to see how I do once I purge the stash and roast only fresh crop.

The LHBS owner recently installed a Mill City machine in his shop. very impressive. he selling more coffee than homebrew supplies I think. Its a nice looking machine. He previously ran two Behmor roasters, so its a huge upgrade for him. I've not tried any of his stuff yet.

TD

 

[MaxStout]

I like the sax player with gold teeth and the long haired hippy. I hope to score a commercial roaster some day on craigslist for a deal, dunno how realistic that is or of if I would even like it. If you can afford it you will probably like it.

A cursory CL search in my area turned up this beauty. Primo unit with a 25 lb. drum. Only 18K if you have a truck and you're up for a road trip.

 

[TallDan]

I like the sax player with gold teeth and the long haired hippy. I hope to score a commercial roaster some day on craigslist for a deal, dunno how realistic that is or of if I would even like it. If you can afford it you will probably like it.

I'm not sure. Take a look at higher end espresso machines. Entry level commercial machines are priced similarly to high end home machines, but the feature sets are completely different. I initially assumed that commercial machines would just be better than home machines all around, but that's just not the case.

A cursory CL search in my area turned up this beauty. Primo unit with a 25 lb. drum. Only 18K if you have a truck and you're up for a road trip.

This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!

 

[MaxStout]

I'm not sure. Take a look at higher end espresso machines. Entry level commercial machines are priced similarly to high end home machines, but the feature sets are completely different. I initially assumed that commercial machines would just be better than home machines all around, but that's just not the case.


This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!

I noticed the seller has a step-up transformer to run it on 120V. Don't know the amperage at 240 but it's got to be a lot. Double that for 120, bet it will trip some breakers.

Had to look up Mill City. Noticed that it's local for me, and they sell a few green coffees in 10lb lots. Might have to check that out further.

 

[TallDan]

I noticed the seller has a step-up transformer to run it on 120V. Don't know the amperage at 240 but it's got to be a lot. Double that for 120, bet it will trip some breakers.

Had to look up Mill City. Noticed that it's local for me, and they sell a few green coffees in 10lb lots. Might have to check that out further.

Actually, it's only 1024w with the heat, drum motor and fans all running full tilt, so 8.5A on 120v or 4.65A on 220v. Even with some added overhead for the step up transformer, it would still safely run on a standard household 120v 15a circuit, which is how the seller said he's been using it.

They are actually made for 208v power. North Roasters is the manufacturer in China, and i guess that's the standard there.

 

[applescrap]

A cursory CL search in my area turned up this beauty. Primo unit with a 25 lb. drum. Only 18K if you have a truck and you're up for a road trip.

Haha, front me, I'll be by to pick it up in a couple hours. But yeah kind of like that. I have dreams and visions. But ultimately I am way too lazy and I prefer golf over work and of course would not be a very good production roaster.

 

[applescrap]

I'm not sure. Take a look at higher end espresso machines. Entry level commercial machines are priced similarly to high end home machines, but the feature sets are completely different. I initially assumed that commercial machines would just be better than home machines all around, but that's just not the case.


This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!

I meant you would like the bullet. That mill city roaster is nice too. Asking new price for used? I don't want commercial for quality as much quantity. Yes Im lazy. It would be sweet to roast 5 pounds at a time. Roast less, age a little, experiment, work, home, sell a little. I can roast 3 pounds an hour easily with hg. But with four of them going that's 12 pounds an hour. I have seen videos. Way to lazy for that.

 

[jammin]

They are actually made for 208v power. North Roasters is the manufacturer in China, and i guess that's the standard there.

Which should be noted is not like standard US 220v which has two 110v hot legs. Theirs is a single 208v line running at 50hz.

 

[TallDan]

Which should be noted is not like standard US 220v which has two 110v hot legs. Theirs is a single 208v line running at 50hz.

The gas Mill City roasters are the same, right? Are you running yours at 220v/60hz?

 

[jammin]

Step-up transformer which was included with the roaster. Draw for the gas model is very low.

 

[TrickyDick]

HotTop auction is almost ended if anyone wants to bid up the price!

 

[TrickyDick]

HotTop auction is almost ended if anyone wants to bid up the price!

Sold with only one bid.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!

Assuming you didn't get this - looks like it's now posted as "Expired".

I couldn't see it but if the price was similar to the Bullet I absolutely would not have gotten the Mill City one. I can't imagine the power is as responsive as the Bullet's induction system, plus the capacity is half the size.

On the other hand, if you DID get it...congrats! Hahahaha.

 

[TrickyDick]

Yemen coffee rested for 10 days. Nice flavor, unique, hard to describe. Probably be great blended with some Kenyan or Central American sweet coffee.
Anyone try that microlot Columbian for GCBC yet??

 

[TallDan]

Assuming you didn't get this - looks like it's now posted as "Expired".

I couldn't see it but if the price was similar to the Bullet I absolutely would not have gotten the Mill City one. I can't imagine the power is as responsive as the Bullet's induction system, plus the capacity is half the size.

On the other hand, if you DID get it...congrats! Hahahaha.

I still see it on CL. Asking price is $2500. Mill City had new ones on ebay for $2550 in 2013, but they're not common enough to easily determine a fair price. I've looked all over and just can't find evidence of any transactions of them in the last 5 years to compare. I think I'm a buyer more around $1900, assuming that it's in lightly used, exceptional condition as the seller has described.

Batch size is a non-issue for me with the ability to do a few batches back to back in a timely fashion. It has less power and would be less responsive than the bullet. However, it is FAR more robust. I don't think I can expect any support or parts from Mill City or North, but I would bet that I could use that roaster for the next 25 years and if anything breaks, be able to get it fixed with generally available parts. The bullet hardware is too specialized for that. I can't help but say that it's like a Kal clone electric homebrew system compared to a picobrew z4.

Anyone try that microlot Columbian for GCBC yet??

Yep, two batches. First batch was too dark, didn't get much origin flavor out of it. Second batch was much nicer. Wasn't crazy about it as a SO espresso though.

 

[jammin]

MCR is extremely supportive with parts. Price for them is on the high but tech support is built into it for that reason. You can buy parts on the web from multiple sources for low prices. That roaster won’t lose a dime if you buy it. You could sell it 5 or 10 years from now for the same price paid.

 

[TallDan]

MCR is extremely supportive with parts. Price for them is on the high but tech support is built into it for that reason. You can buy parts on the web from multiple sources for low prices. That roaster won’t lose a dime if you buy it. You could sell it 5 or 10 years from now for the same price paid.

I suspect that you're right, but finding a buyer might not be real easy. Then again, who knows what the market for roasters will look like then.

I've also got this idea in the back of my mind that I could convert it to full artisan control as some people have done with the quest m3. Maybe even replace the heating element with something a little more powerful.

I'm going to wind up talking myself into it...

 

[applescrap]

When I buy things on craigslist that nobody is seemingly pecking at I will wait and wait and wait watching the price come down lower and lower and then l lowball. By the time shipping and eBay and pay pal get in your pocket you don't really get that much for selling it more on a world market. I would wait till he came down and then offer him a 1000 hoping to buy it at 1300. Seems a little unrealistic I know but you would be surprised. It never hurts to ask. I try to not make it Personal. It's just business. I try to not sell things to high spreading the good karma for later. I think a lot of the good deals I get are 2nd or 3rd owners. Ime Everything is easy buy hard sell.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

When I buy things on craigslist that nobody is seemingly pecking at I will wait and wait and wait watching the price come down lower and lower and then l lowball. By the time shipping and eBay and pay pal get in your pocket you don't really get that much for selling it more on a world market. I would wait till he came down and then offer him a 1000 hoping to buy it at 1300. Seems a little unrealistic I know but you would be surprised. It never hurts to ask. I try to not make it Personal. It's just business. I try to not sell things to high spreading the good karma for later. I think a lot of the good deals I get are 2nd or 3rd owners. Ime Everything is easy buy hard sell.

So your the guy who keeps low balling me on the utility sink I'm selling...mmhmm.

Nothing cures a pesky Friday morning hangover like a cup of Colombian. Cheers all.

 

[TrickyDick]

Blended the Yemen with keynan and turns out is a great combo! Good way to start another ****** work day, but at least it’s a Friday.

 

[TrickyDick]

Blended the Yemen with keynan and turns out is a great combo! Good way to start another poopyty work day, but at least it’s a Friday.

I think something or someone edited my profanity!
Other thing about that Yemen coffee, looks like garbage, all small a varied shape beans and seems roast wasn’t very even, but I think it’s the beans themselves. Very odd stuff.

 

[passedpawn]

I think something or someone edited my profanity!
Other thing about that Yemen coffee, looks like garbage, all small a varied shape beans and seems roast wasn’t very even, but I think it’s the beans themselves. Very odd stuff.

Forum autocorrect automatically replaces sh!t inside any word with poop. I added that feature myself I like poopty though, has a novel ring to it.

 

[TrickyDick]

Seriously debating throwing out my stockpile of old crop beans. Has been confirmed that poor storage has led to deterioration. Flavor wise, all has been subdued in flavor intensity. Roasting wise, is damn near impossible to hear 1C on most of the beans, making them difficult to roast to my desired degree. In spite of that, some of the coffee comes out decent. But, if wanted to drink decent coffee I wouldn’t have gotten into this in the first place!

I think I’m going to freeze the 2017 beans in vac sealed bags and pitch the rest. So sad.

I bought some new crop, but it hasn’t arrived yet.
So far my new stock pile is quite small, and this weekend is going to be portioned and frozen in vac seal bags to prevent future disaster.

I have four pounds of Peru fto decaf, 3 of the columbian microlot, and I just bought three other coffees, which I wanted to ask if anyone else had tried yet.

Kenya Nyeri gichichi AA from Sweet Maria’s
Eth dry process guji dambi uddo from Sweet Marias
hambela guji guracho sundried natural from GCBC

This brings my stockpile to 12 pounds of current crop plus 4 pounds of decafe.

In my Internet searches, I found that some shops individually freeze roasted decafe coffee per single serving. I’m thinking I might do the same. I also read discussion about how grinding frozen coffee reduces the particle size dispersion to you get more uniform extraction, which is interesting.

 

[TallDan]

I think I’m going to freeze the 2017 beans in vac sealed bags and pitch the rest. So sad.

I'd probably keep some and play around with your roaster. Test the upper and lower limit of your batch size and stuff like that. Could be useful for someone that is just getting a new roaster if you're willing to ship.

In my Internet searches, I found that some shops individually freeze roasted decafe coffee per single serving. I’m thinking I might do the same. I also read discussion about how grinding frozen coffee reduces the particle size dispersion to you get more uniform extraction, which is interesting.

You know, that's an interesting thought. I've generally dismissed freezing coffee since the whole idea of home roasting for me is always having freshly roasted coffee in the quantities that I need. However, my wife prefers decaf most of the time, and it's usually only 1-2 americanos per weekend. So I roast 4oz in the behmor, keep it in an airscape container but that still ends up sitting around for a month. I might try splitting that up, put half in a bag in the freezer. Maybe switch to 8oz batches and put it into a few bags.