☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[pshankstar]

perfect timing. was hoping you picked the kenyan bc ive been really wanting to roast that one.

speaking of kenyan coffee... stopped by my fav shop today and had a shot of Kenyan (roast by Verve) that was AMAZING! Kenyan is traditionally the least likely coffee for espresso but damn does it ever make a nice shot if roasted & pulled correctly! If i can ever crack that code at home it will surely lead to a caffeine induced coma

Any updates on the Kenya roast? I’ll probably place an order this weekend with Sweet Maria’s but now they have released more beans that look interesting. I guess my cart just got a little bigger. Haha

 

[jammin]

I’ve been formulating my thoughts on it and I’d say it’s good. Worth getting considering the options but as inidicated it barely scrapes in to its 90 rating. I’m happy with it and look forward to roasting it again. I’ve been cupping it against a 94 rated Kenyan PB from earlier this year that’s just insane so it’s tough to get excited about this one. Good coffee though - you’ll be happy with it. Nice lingering sweetness and tempered acidity for a good Kenyan.
One note - it’s a AA for sure. Big beans - hit em’ hard to start and use caution when approaching 1C as they carry a lot of momentum.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Glad I got your feedback on the Kenyan when I did. It was on my list, and I decided against it. Went with these four instead.

 

[jammin]

Do you not like Kenyan coffee? A good Kenyan is better than a great central 9/10 times for drip. A great Kenyan can’t be beat (imo of course).

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Love Kenyan, but disappointed in what they were offering now compared to what was being offered a couple months back. There were quite a few 92-94 point Kenyans from this past season so to see anything rated lower than those is...less appealing to me.

I sell 90% of the coffee I roast and just about everyone prefers the Centrals over Africans for some reason. I'm exactly the opposite, but this was a case of me stocking up on Centrals for what people buy. I haven't seen many good ones the last month and I've been waiting on SM's to upload a few new ones, so I jumped on these.

I'm hoping to come across a few more of those 92+++ Kenyans in the near future though, so if you see any I am all ears.

 

[jammin]

^that makes sense! Pretty cool you’ve got a little clientele going
Kind of wish I had that and kinda glad I don’t. That was a firestorm of Kenyan offerings this year. I don’t suspect to see anything like that again for a while. Here’s to hoping though

 

[pshankstar]

I’ve been formulating my thoughts on it and I’d say it’s good. Worth getting considering the options but as inidicated it barely scrapes in to its 90 rating. I’m happy with it and look forward to roasting it again. I’ve been cupping it against a 94 rated Kenyan PB from earlier this year that’s just insane so it’s tough to get excited about this one. Good coffee though - you’ll be happy with it. Nice lingering sweetness and tempered acidity for a good Kenyan.
One note - it’s a AA for sure. Big beans - hit em’ hard to start and use caution when approaching 1C as they carry a lot of momentum.

Thanks for the feedback @jammin! Now here's a newbie question or two... What is "AA" when it comes to coffee beans? Also, what do you mean by:

"hit em’ hard to start and use caution when approaching 1C as they carry a lot of momentum"

Start off with a lot of heat but when 1C occurs or is close, turn the heat down? Otherwise what happens? Still learning and working with my FreshRoast SR500. When I roast I usually do 3-4 100g batches of a bean, so about a half pound. That gets my wife and I through a week. I may start doubling that and do two beans so we have choices for a week or two.

Thanks again!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

^that makes sense! Pretty cool you’ve got a little clientele going
Kind of wish I had that and kinda glad I don’t. That was a firestorm of Kenyan offerings this year. I don’t suspect to see anything like that again for a while. Here’s to hoping though

It's fun to me. There's not much money in it, but it finances the coffee upgrades I'll be making this year (such as a new roaster and grinder). I'm all about the side-hustle.

Yeah this was a particularly unique year for Kenyans. I wish I had grabbed some, but I was up to my ears in coffee at the time. Still, I should have just done it.

 

[jammin]

@pshankstar - you have the meaning dialed. I have some experience using an air roaster but with a heat gun/bread machine.

You shouldn’t have any trouble roasting fast, even from the start. Anticipating first crack will be the challenge. These beans are dense & have a decent amount of water activity. This means 1C will probaly come on a little earlier than most beans and will be tougher to slow the roast. The good news is these beans should be able to handle some serious abuse without getting scorched. I’m sure you’ll be able to make good adjustments after cupping your first attempt. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it if you end up grabbing any. Since it’s not a super acidic Kenyan I think the short roast times of your air roaster might make for some great coffee on your end.

 

[Inkleg]

It's fun to me. There's not much money in it, but it finances the coffee upgrades I'll be making this year (such as a new roaster and grinder). I'm all about the side-hustle.

I guess I need to work on my side-hustle as I've just been giving it away. Maybe I have them hooked on the freebies and I can start charging now.

 

[Inkleg]

@jammin , I blame you for everything, but in a good way. Thanks brother!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I reached out to baratza to ask them if they really thought the Sette could handle pour over through the BG Burr (Burr Grinder Burr).

While the answer is not at all what I wanted to hear, I REALLY appreciate the honesty. This is why I'm struggling to buy another brand too.

Here's what they had to say:

Thanks for your patronage, kind words, and interest.

I understand the Sette’s design has caught your eye but I think you are onto the right trek in asking about whether the intended function of the Sette series is for you.

The Short answer is, this is an espresso grinder and even with the BG burr the Encore and Virtuoso will out perform it for drip, chemex, and press brewing. I don’t think you should buy a Sette unless you are going to be brewing mostly espresso.

The BG burr helps espresso brewers get better tastes results on their occasional pour over but the Sette creates too many fine particles to be as good as it is for espresso for any other method like drip.

We are looking into the possibility of a brew grinder with Sette features but it is likely years out and I wouldn’t recommend basing your purchase on this.

Thanks again and I hope that was helpful.

 

[jammin]

^whole-heartedly agree with you sentiment towards Baratza! Like you, I’m very much looking forward to pour over focused Sette 30.

I had a Virtuoso for a year and agree that it’s an outstanding drip grinder. Kinda wish I wouldn’t have sold it to my buddy. You can dock it on their Esatto attachment & turn it into a weight based grinder for dosing! It’s the main reason I keep my Vario-W

 

[applescrap]

I ordered 4lbs of the bl sale this week Nicaraguan limoncillo. It was the less expensive version of the limoncillo that I had from the christmas sale. The more expensive javanica was splendid in an impressive way, although ultimately upon comparison it was really just like a decent ethiopian, but in a Nicaraguan way. Man I thought it was that good. The website said they were farm of the year in 2009 so I thought I would try the pacamara version from them. I have to switch up the konga so it will last and so I dont get to spoiled. I have been drinking the konga all week and remain amazed at its quality as always. You guys are so much harder working and nicer than me. My buddy has been desperate for some konga, and finally he ripped 20$ dollars out of his wallet for a pound (yeah, its that good). I felt bad I havent roasted him much but he gets a couple cups at work everyday. Roasted him some tonight[emoji106] .

Also roasted the infamous nitsu ruz from bl. At 8.24 a pound it remains a pricey fail for me. I struggle roasting it everytime and kick myself for not roasting it a little slower everytime. I dont mind a light roast but if I taste some green left in there I dont like it. How long 1c will last, what it sounds like in its entirety, how quickly and when it will go into 2c, are still hard for me to judge. Roasting only by sight and smell and around 10 minutes for a pound has been tricky for me. Need to use the homemade tryer more, but its tricky to get past the hg. As always its time to get a thermometer to help, but I cant help but feel the real power comes from knowing how each bean roasts and what is best for each bean.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

Went to a small local roaster today. Was able to talk to the owner a little about his equipment and offerings. He will sell me green coffee for around $7.50-$8.50/lb so I plan to start buying a few from him to see what the quality is like. Seems like a really nice guy and is always super busy. Someone that would be good to have on my side as I look to pursue this venture more.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I've been meaning to reach out to Metropolis about buying their beans. I understand you can get Blackcat blend green if you order it in advance.

This morning I made coffee for the family and I was upstairs when I heard my mom suddenly say "oh my goodness!" later I came down and realized it was when she tried the coffee. Funny how you get sort of used to it, but someone else tries it and they are blown away. It's a real treat for me.

 

[TallDan]

I've been meaning to reach out to Metropolis about buying their beans. I understand you can get Blackcat blend green if you order it in advance.

This morning I made coffee for the family and I was upstairs when I heard my mom suddenly say "oh my goodness!" later I came down and realized it was when she tried the coffee. Funny how you get sort of used to it, but someone else tries it and they are blown away. It's a real treat for me.

You mean red line's blend, which is sold as green line unroasted. Pretty sure you can order it right on their website.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Oh that's right. Blackcat is Intelli. Love blackcat... Not sure I've actually had red line.

 

[TallDan]

Oh that's right. Blackcat is Intelli. Love blackcat... Not sure I've actually had red line.

I've had it, but it's been years. May not even be the same blend anymore. I should get some green line though. Metropolis has a special place in my coffee loving heart.

 

[passedpawn]

Drinking starbucks medium roast pre-ground (daughter bought a bag). It's just awful. Awful awful awful. So overroasted, grounds are nearly black, burnt flavor in my cup. I imagine some people like their coffee this way, but I'm not one of them. I guess I'm just surprised what I get from a bag labeled "medium roast". Haha.

 

[pshankstar]

I’ve been formulating my thoughts on it and I’d say it’s good. Worth getting considering the options but as inidicated it barely scrapes in to its 90 rating. I’m happy with it and look forward to roasting it again. I’ve been cupping it against a 94 rated Kenyan PB from earlier this year that’s just insane so it’s tough to get excited about this one. Good coffee though - you’ll be happy with it. Nice lingering sweetness and tempered acidity for a good Kenyan.
One note - it’s a AA for sure. Big beans - hit em’ hard to start and use caution when approaching 1C as they carry a lot of momentum.

Thanks @jammin, I decided to give it a try based on your feedback. Being new to roasting I do not have much to compare it to. I placed the following order over the weekend.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

There are a few roasting forums I follow on facebook. Usually they are very helpful and there is no negativity but things blew up recently on one of them. It's not worth getting into any details, but I did have a realization:

A lot of people start out roasting on popcorn poppers and similar types of equipment which are relatively easy to roast on, right? By no means am I taking away anything from anyone, and I know for a fact the quality of the roast can be very good.

When people decide to step up their roasting game, many look to and get the Behmor (exactly what I did as well, coming from a Whirlypop). The Behmor has some simple auto settings, but to really get a good roast from this type of roaster (a roaster which that holds a lot of heat within it) you have got to be fiddling around with power settings at various stages to really bring the most out of the roaster.

What I have noticed is a lot of people come from machines or methods which just plug in and have 100% power the whole time and get decent or good coffee, then they get a Behmor and think you can do the same thing or follow one of the presets to get better quality coffee. It doesn't really work like that (just like it wouldn't work like that if you roasted on a Diedrich). Sure, Behmor comes with some simple pre-programming so you can get roasted coffee out of it by letting it run the Auto course, but that's not going to give you a huge upgrade from whatever roaster you came from before.

Ultimately what I'm saying is, I've noticed people are funny. They think they can upgrade and things should be simple, and that since the roaster cost 3x+ what their previous roaster cost, the coffee should be just as much better. But what I think is missing is the fact that you can have ANY roaster out there, but if you don't understand how to roast coffee, the product is simply going to be sub-par. Plus it takes more than 10 roasts to determine if a machine allows for a good roast. Practice practice practice.

 

[applescrap]

Lots to think about and I would like to add that every bean is different and every roaster is different. You alluded to that very well with the Diedrich comment. So not only do you have to know how to roast, one needs to know they're set up very intimately and also know the bean very deeply as well. watching the how to roast videos with Joe Morocco, that's his name just thought of it, he is hard-pressed to say exactly how people should roast. Because of the difference in machines and coffee there are too many variables. Throw in size of batch and each situation becomes very unique.

@passedpawn yeah one sniff of a brewed cup of coffee tells me everything I need to know any more. Usually its that burnt smell that is a turn off.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

So not only do you have to know how to roast, one needs to know they're set up very intimately and also know the bean very deeply as well. watching the how to roast videos with Joe Morocco, that's his name just thought of it, he is hard-pressed to say exactly how people should roast. Because of the difference in machines and coffee there are too many variables. Throw in size of batch and each situation becomes very unique.

Yes, exactly. I don't know if people are lazy, unrealistic, or if they don't truly understand how freaking complex roasting can be.

Maybe around here we appreciate it more and have more patience because we are homebrewers. We know how many variables go into something and how many vastly different things you have to focus on to get a quality beverage.

I do carpentry as a side job; I was reading on a carpentry forum one day where a guy (with no carpentry experience) needed new trim in his house and was asking for advice on how much it should cost to have someone professionally install it. Someone gave advice that he could buy a $300 saw, look at videos on Youtube, and do it himself. Fortunately a few others jumped in and told him that's the sort of thing that takes A LOT of practice and he'd not be satisfied with the result.

It's the same sort of thing - just because you can do it doesn't mean you can do it well without practice. Especially with these specialized things.

 

[TallDan]

I do carpentry as a side job; I was reading on a carpentry forum one day where a guy (with no carpentry experience) needed new trim in his house and was asking for advice on how much it should cost to have someone professionally install it. Someone gave advice that he could buy a $300 saw, look at videos on Youtube, and do it himself. Fortunately a few others jumped in and told him that's the sort of thing that takes A LOT of practice and he'd not be satisfied with the result.

It's the same sort of thing - just because you can do it doesn't mean you can do it well without practice. Especially with these specialized things.

But carpentry, like coffee roasting and beer brewing isn't some sort of black magic. You absolutely can spend a few bucks, do a little reading and get started. Telling him to buy the saw and DIY is good advice to someone who has the inclination to learn some basic carpentry skills.

Your first beer probably isn't going win any awards, and the first window you replace the trim on might need to be redone (a few times) to get it right, but it's certainly not out of reach for someone with the desire to learn it.

(Says the guy who is closing tomorrow on a house that needs a bunch of updates and work and is getting quotes from people to replace trim.)

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Yep, all about practice. And reasonable expectations.

Congrats on the new house! If it's near the north-side...."I know a guy...."

 

[TallDan]

Yep, all about practice. And reasonable expectations.

Congrats on the new house! If it's near the north-side...."I know a guy...."

Northbrook. A lot near-er than I am now.

I think most of my trim work is going to be handled by the person refinishing floors, but I'm not committed to anything yet. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I've been hee'in and haw'in (I don't know how to spell that emotion but it's the only appropriate) on this grinder issue for a while. I decided I'm going to get the Sette 30 with the BG burrs.

They don't advise it for French Press, and there are mixed reviews for Chemex, but it seems it can do it with a little dialing in and going with a slightly finer grind (when grinding more coarse, the beans tend to break apart into fines rather than grinding to the proper size, so they recommend going slightly finer with your grind to reduce the number of broken beans). Besides, I've lately used the Able Kone filter 75% of the time, so my grind is more like a grind for a V60 instead of a coarse Chemex paper filter type grind.

If anyone thinks I'm a moron, please let me know asap otherwise I'm going to order it this afternoon. Usually my wife would do me that honor but she doesn't know anything about grinders so she's keeping quiet...

 

[jammin]

What are you grinding with now? I really like the idea of the Sette but it seems those BG burrs really have a bad rep. I think the 30 steps are a great range for brew grinding. Surely Baratza will release an updated set in the next year you can swap in for better performance. Knowing them, they might even ship you a set free.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Currently using an Encore that I've tweaked to grind a reasonably good espresso.

The thing I dislike about the Encore (and presumably the Virtuoso) is I don't get crisp, defined flavors unless I remove the hopper and outer burr and brush out the burr and inner burr. Then I hit it a few times to knock out the loose grinds stuck in the chute. THEN I can make coffee. When I don't do that, the flavors are very subdued. It took me about 3 months to figure this out when I first got the grinder. I was a little unimpressed at first but once I started cleaning it out each time I used it there was a significant improvement.

That's why I really like the Sette - no grind retention.

Speaking of Baratza working on new burrs, they said they may but they haven't begun working on it yet. It seems to me there is definitely a market for it so the demand is there but I don't know if they'll do it.

The Vario sounds nice, but I don't really want to spend the extra money. I'm also not sure it would give me both a good espresso and brew grind.

So, those are some of my thoughts but I'm interested to hear anyone's input.