Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

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taylorb817 said:
I think there is a lot of value is making an exact clone of a beer, not necessarily from a drinking standpoint, but in an education standpoint. If a true (or indistinguishable) Julius clone were to be uncovered in this thread, it could guide my brewing so I could be one step closer to that ultimate beer for me. Like you said, there is no mystery on how to make a delicious "Northeast IPA," but the value of a clone recipe goes beyond just brewing a generally delicious beer.
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Well Said. Its one step closer to helping others hit a home run for their tastes since no two people can taste identically alike. What may be amazing for some, may not be for others.

Ideally I'd like to get a base clone to be very close and then experiment with the hops. The possibilities would be endless.
 
cpapallo said:
I don't think you can get an exact hop schedule per se (unless Nate decides to give it to us). It's really all trial and error until you get close. My suggestion would be to do a ton (3-6oz) of late addition Citra (<5 min through WP). Possibly some Amarillo involved in that 3-6oz.

Assuming you all saw this link?

https://beerandbrewing.com/VUKlMSgAABcrKfnm/article/hoppy-thing-recipe
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What exactly does "Add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to taste depending on your local water source" mean? How does water taste with/without gypsum?

No, I have never tried adding gypsum to water ...

How would one know that enough, too little, or to much gypsum by taste?
 
ultravista said:
What exactly does "Add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to taste depending on your local water source" mean? How does water taste with/without gypsum?

No, I have never tried adding gypsum to water ...

How would one know that enough, too little, or to much gypsum by taste?
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So I know NOTHING about water chemistry , but I can make a good ipa.

From what I understand gypsum helps the hops be more prominent. I add 1-2 tsp in the mash for all my ipas. You can try a side by side test with the same beer with and without and equivalent amount of gypsum. My amounts are for a 5gal batch

Of course, it's largely dependant on you water profile. Mine is mostly neutral or average. You may need more or less
 
Salt additions should be measured, its not a "kick it up a notch with a dash of this" type ingredient. Bare minimum, throw your recipe into the water profile calculator at brewers friend and start adjusting the gypsum additions to get the correct sulfate levels you want and a mash pH within range.

I use pilsen-like spring water that is pretty soft. I need anywhere from 10-15 grams of gypsum to get to a nice target water profile and mash pH.
 
ultravista said:
What exactly does "Add gypsum (calcium sulfate) to taste depending on your local water source" mean? How does water taste with/without gypsum?

No, I have never tried adding gypsum to water ...

How would one know that enough, too little, or to much gypsum by taste?
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Most west coast IPAs use somewhere in the range of 200-300 ppm of sulfate, this gives it a dry, biting and slightly mineral note but makes the hops shine.
If you want less of that character (to taste) you could shoot for maybe 150 instead. Higher than 300 is probably going to be kinda harsh.

For my water, this meant adding 6g to the mash and an additional 8g to the boil to hit 250 for a 11g batch of IPA. I used Bru'n water to help me split it up so that I'm hitting my target pH in the mash but hitting my target sulfate level for the overall beer. As opposed to just dumping all 14g into the mash which would throw the pH off.

But you really need to get your water specs before adding any salts, or start from RO and build it up.
 
bg1414 said:
Does anyone have a recipe they have used with good results. There has been a lot of speculation, but not many posted recipes. I'm interested in seeing a hop schedule for this beer someone has used.
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As Moops pointed out - there are some "general" things to start getting in the ball park of this style of IPA. This is NOT an exact Julius recipe by any means, but here is a link to my general "North East IPA" recipe that I have been having success with.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568046

I have kind of glanced at this thread, but never really attempted a specific Julius Clone. Never had it myself, so would not even know how to compare it. However, I may try blending some of what I read in this thread with the NE IPA recipe I have been using.
 
Braufessor said:
As Moops pointed out - there are some "general" things to start getting in the ball park of this style of IPA. This is NOT an exact Julius recipe by any means, but here is a link to my general "North East IPA" recipe that I have been having success with.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=568046

I have kind of glanced at this thread, but never really attempted a specific Julius Clone. Never had it myself, so would not even know how to compare it. However, I may try blending some of what I read in this thread with the NE IPA recipe I have been using.
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If you want, I could send you some TH IPAs. I have learned a lot from following your thread and I finally finished reading the water book! Applying to my IPAs and Pales and tweaking now. Your experiments have definitely helped and inspired me!
 
I'm going to brew something up. I'm going to use malt bill described in this thread and the NE ipa thread. I'm going to go with Columbus hops for bittering and at about 20m. Whirlpool with citra and amarillo. Dry hop with all, but primarily citra and amarillo.
 
Ok all, I've been talking with M00ps about a crazy experiment here. I'm going to be doing a small, 2 gallon batch with 1lb. of Belma Hops.

The goal is to establish a base to expand upon the TH style. I have several ideas to explore, but this first round is going to be start to expand upon based on my findings. Might want to sit down, this is going to be a long one.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Belma BIAB
Author: Mike Strasser [email protected]

Brew Method: Stovetop BIAB
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 2 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 2.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.050
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.069
Final Gravity: 1.017 (will drop with addition of second yeast; software does not account)
ABV (standard): 6.84%
IBU (tinseth): 68.4
SRM (morey): 7.4

FERMENTABLES:
3.4 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (62.6%)
12.8 oz - Flaked Oats (14.7%)
12.8 oz - American - White Wheat (14.7%)
3.2 oz - German - Acidulated Malt (3.7%)
2 oz - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (2.3%)
1.5 oz - Canadian - Honey Malt (1.7%)

HOPS:
.25 oz - Belma, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.4, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 68.4
.25 oz - Belma, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.4, Use: Aroma for 5 min
3 oz - Belma, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.4, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 150 °F
3 oz - Belma, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.4, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days (See notes below for experimenting with dry hop using Citra)

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Decoction, Temp: 158 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8.25 qt

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.25 tsp - Gypsum, Time: 0 min, Type: Fining, Use: Mash
0.25 tsp - Gypsum, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
0.75 tbsp - Yeast Nutrient, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 64 - 74 F
Fermentation Temp: 67 F
Additional Yeast: Safale US05

NOTES:
Mash 158*F for 1 Hour.
Pitch WY1318.
At 75% attenuation, Add Dry Hop + Re Hydrated US05.
Raise Temp To Finish.
Bottle Fresh to 2.4 C02

Experiment 1
At Dry Hop - Agitate Wort To Suspend Yeast
Split Batch into Equal 1 Gallon
Label Each Carboy; #1 #2
#1 Will Be Dry Hopped With Only 4oz Belma
#2 Will Be Dry Hopped With Only 4oz Citra

Bottle and compare aroma and flavor differences. Goal is to determine whether dry hop imparts any taste / juicyness / aroma akin to TH. There are loads of citra in TH aroma, yet with different hop flavor.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, with that out of the way I'm hoping to get a close base for a solid hop juice recipe. Based on my findings, I will adjust as needed. The ultimate goal would be to have a solid base with interchangeable aroma hops and blends to achieve different flavors. This seems to be a common practice at TH (see julius / alter ego)

In the future, I intend to experiment with a dry hop or even hopping at bottling. Recently I had "Stereo" from Stillwater. It had great aroma and excellent flavor and there was clearly pulverized hop matter floating around in the bottle. My idea was to pulverize the hop pellets, and experiment in adding this powder at bottling to each bottle in order to essentially condition and aid in keeping strong aroma in the bottled beer for a longer time. Thoughts?

What suggestions, ideas, recommendations do you have? I'm hoping to have a brew day this weekend.
 
Is 1.6oz/gal in the kettle only or kettle plus dry hop? I'm assuming kettle only?
 
bg1414 said:
I'm going to brew something up. I'm going to use malt bill described in this thread and the NE ipa thread. I'm going to go with Columbus hops for bittering and at about 20m. Whirlpool with citra and amarillo. Dry hop with all, but primarily citra and amarillo.
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Have you brewed this yet? What was your final malt bill? I'm trying to put one together too. Wanting to see where others ended up, since there's not really a consensus recipe in any post I can find.
 
bg1414 said:
Is 1.6oz/gal in the kettle only or kettle plus dry hop? I'm assuming kettle only?
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Even if it is kettle only, is it 1.6oz/gallon of pre boil volume, post boil volume, or what you actually get in the fermenter? If it's kettle plus dry hop, is it total volume into the fermenter or finished product? How are you supposed to know what percentage of the hops to put in the kettle and fermenter? Without knowing these things, that number doesn't mean very much.
 
TxBigHops said:
Have you brewed this yet? What was your final malt bill? I'm trying to put one together too. Wanting to see where others ended up, since there's not really a consensus recipe in any post I can find.
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see attached. i went with malt bill in NE Ipa thread and then went with a hop schedule I thought might work. We shall see! Brewing Saturday.

juice.PNG
 
bg1414 said:
see attached. i went with malt bill in NE Ipa thread and then went with a hop schedule I thought might work. We shall see! Brewing Saturday.
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Thanks bg! That's actually very similar to what I threw together yesterday afternoon. Only real difference, I used quite a bit more wheat malt - 2 lbs. I also did a 50/50 base malt split, but used Maris Otter instead of GP.

For those who are using flour, how are you accounting for it in your recipes? I use Brewer's Friend, and I don't see a way to put it in. How much are you using in the mash, and what are you expecting to get out of it (if anything) in the way of fermentable sugars? Thanks!
 
I think Belma, Simcoe & Amarillo created a pretty Julius like aroma (40-40-20). But Tree House doesn't seem to have Simcoe in any other beer so I doubt they use it.
 
hopsandhops said:
Where did you learn that? The only info they give out is that it is almost all chinook
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Treehouse had indicated several times that they were waiting for the new crop of Simcoe to brew Sap. I can also pick up simcoe in Sap.
 
drez77 said:
Treehouse had indicated several times that they were waiting for the new crop of Simcoe to brew Sap. I can also pick up simcoe in Sap.
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According to their Twitter account they use Columbus and Simcoe in Sap to compliment the massive amount of Chinook.
 
robopp said:
According to their Twitter account they use Columbus and Simcoe in Sap to compliment the massive amount of Chinook.
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I haven't been up on their twitter lately. That makes me want to try it even more!

I have an IPA on tap right now that was all Chinook in the kettle and all Citra in the DH. Reminded me a bit of a TH brew, but its missing that "berry" note. Like always...
 
I'm guessing Citra, Mosaic and Amarillo for the Julius hops. It makes sense since they DH Alter Ego with Mosaic and Amarillo. The "alter ego" of Julius..
 
robopp said:
I'm not following your logic?
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No logic really, it's just speculation on my part but it makes sense. Nate said the base recipe for Julius and Alter Ego are the same but AE is dry hopped with Mosaic and Amarillo where I believe Julius IMO is dry hopped with just Citra. I did brew an IPA with those hops and it had a very similar aroma profile.
 
When I drink from TH I notice different "waves" of flavor. I believe they use the same malt profile for all of their hoppy beers and simply alter the hopping for different beers. Some of their packaging and site / blog / twitter information that's available was taken into consideration. The rest was done by the taste buds. For example:

I did a side by side with julius, curiousity 23, alter ego, and green the other day with a few seasoned brewers.

Consensus was that Julius was all citra. Keep in mind this beer started life as "Nate's Citra". With how secretive they are about their processes, it doesn't surprise me that they change the name to throw off cloners like us.

Green started with the citra flavor and finished with what we believed to be galaxy or possibly some moteuka (I cannot verify as I've never used moteuka).

Curiosity 23 started with how green finished, which lends itself to galaxy. It's finish was amarillo.

Alter ego started like Julius (citra) and had a very reminiscent finish to curiosity 23.

Researching the one recipe that I have found from nate from beer and brewing (https://beerandbrewing.com/VUKlMSgAABcrKfnm/article/hoppy-thing-recipe) it wouldn't surprise me if that grain base is extremely similar to what they actually use. Paired with a high flocculation yeast, I think this would be amazing.
 
Ruckusz28 said:
When I drink from TH I notice different "waves" of flavor. I believe they use the same malt profile for all of their hoppy beers and simply alter the hopping for different beers. Some of their packaging and site / blog / twitter information that's available was taken into consideration. The rest was done by the taste buds. For example:

I did a side by side with julius, curiousity 23, alter ego, and green the other day with a few seasoned brewers.

Consensus was that Julius was all citra. Keep in mind this beer started life as "Nate's Citra". With how secretive they are about their processes, it doesn't surprise me that they change the name to throw off cloners like us.

Green started with the citra flavor and finished with what we believed to be galaxy or possibly some moteuka (I cannot verify as I've never used moteuka).

Curiosity 23 started with how green finished, which lends itself to galaxy. It's finish was amarillo.

Alter ego started like Julius (citra) and had a very reminiscent finish to curiosity 23.

Researching the one recipe that I have found from nate from beer and brewing (https://beerandbrewing.com/VUKlMSgAABcrKfnm/article/hoppy-thing-recipe) it wouldn't surprise me if that grain base is extremely similar to what they actually use. Paired with a high flocculation yeast, I think this would be amazing.
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I agree - I also think the fact that many of their offerings look identical, this may support the idea of a nearly identical grain bill for their IPAs with varying hops.

Also, Julius definitely was all-citra as recently as a few years ago (when I started this thread), but now there is definitely more dank. I would guess Mosaic or Columbus too?
 
Ruckusz28 said:
When I drink from TH I notice different "waves" of flavor. I believe they use the same malt profile for all of their hoppy beers and simply alter the hopping for different beers. Some of their packaging and site / blog / twitter information that's available was taken into consideration. The rest was done by the taste buds. For example:

I did a side by side with julius, curiousity 23, alter ego, and green the other day with a few seasoned brewers.

Consensus was that Julius was all citra. Keep in mind this beer started life as "Nate's Citra". With how secretive they are about their processes, it doesn't surprise me that they change the name to throw off cloners like us.

Green started with the citra flavor and finished with what we believed to be galaxy or possibly some moteuka (I cannot verify as I've never used moteuka).

Curiosity 23 started with how green finished, which lends itself to galaxy. It's finish was amarillo.

Alter ego started like Julius (citra) and had a very reminiscent finish to curiosity 23.

Researching the one recipe that I have found from nate from beer and brewing (https://beerandbrewing.com/VUKlMSgAABcrKfnm/article/hoppy-thing-recipe) it wouldn't surprise me if that grain base is extremely similar to what they actually use. Paired with a high flocculation yeast, I think this would be amazing.
Click to expand...


I think they keep a simple malt bill as mentioned on a bunch of their descriptions in this: http://treehousebrew.com/archive/

I drank my last Green tonight and the srm is definitely lighter in color than Julius and Alter Ego. When drinking Green I didn't get any Citra at all, I actually got a hint of Nelson. It was very dank and actually very bitter on the finish. The last time I had Julius the srm looked like it was closer to 8-9.
 
kaz4121 said:
I agree - I also think the fact that many of their offerings look identical, this may support the idea of a nearly identical grain bill for their IPAs with varying hops.



Also, Julius definitely was all-citra as recently as a few years ago (when I started this thread), but now there is definitely more dank. I would guess Mosaic or Columbus too?
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I definitely think Julius is an all Citra dry hop but I do get some Mosaic sweetness in there as well.
 
Catphish said:
I think they keep a simple malt bill as mentioned on a bunch of their descriptions in this: http://treehousebrew.com/archive/

I drank my last Green tonight and the srm is definitely lighter in color than Julius and Alter Ego. When drinking Green I didn't get any Citra at all, I actually got a hint of Nelson. It was very dank and actually very bitter on the finish. The last time I had Julius the srm looked like it was closer to 8-9.
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Great link! Thanks for sharing.

I just gave my best estimate since I haven't really tried most of these hops. I feel that there's not much change to the brewing process. It seems we all agree that the process stays similar, just with varying hops and amounts. I have a feeling that their yeast may have a little bit of wizard magic in it. I will be able to tell once I brew with it.
 
I was very lucky to be able to share a few cans of Julius and Green last weekend in Boston for the EBF... now i have to brew this beer.

So i googled : tree house julius clone
And found this topic were we are now..

And this recipe https://www.homebrewhedonist.com/tree-house-ipa-recipe/ : "Tree House Brewing Company&#8217;s co-founder and Head Brewer, Nate Lanier, provided an IPA receipe that promises a citric tasting delight."

Im sorry if it was already posted somewhere in this crazy multiple page tread ;) (im going to get started on reading it all...)

What do you think of this recipe ? is it legit ? (LOL im sorry i just found out its the exact same recepy/text as in the link provided just a few post back...the dates on my link is older ? but ? wow....)

Am i crazy if i see some wheat grain going in that Julius ?
 
dobmaster said:
I was very lucky to be able to share a few cans of Julius and Green last weekend in Boston for the EBF... now i have to brew this beer.

So i googled : tree house julius clone
And found this topic were we are now..

And this recipe https://www.homebrewhedonist.com/tree-house-ipa-recipe/ : "Tree House Brewing Company’s co-founder and Head Brewer, Nate Lanier, provided an IPA receipe that promises a citric tasting delight."

Im sorry if it was already posted somewhere in this crazy multiple page tread ;) (im going to get started on reading it all...)

What do you think of this recipe ? is it legit ? (LOL im sorry i just found out its the exact same recepy/text as in the link provided just a few post back...the dates on my link is older ? but ? wow....)

Am i crazy if i see some wheat grain going in that Julius ?
Click to expand...

Yep that recipe is about 5 posts up in this thread. Same one, but it was just published in a different source. That recipe is not for Julius, but feel free to read the thread (you'll find the answers to everything you asked and then some), brew the recipe, and contribute your findings.
 
Ruckusz28 said:
When I drink from TH I notice different "waves" of flavor. I believe they use the same malt profile for all of their hoppy beers and simply alter the hopping for different beers. Some of their packaging and site / blog / twitter information that's available was taken into consideration. The rest was done by the taste buds. For example:

I did a side by side with julius, curiousity 23, alter ego, and green the other day with a few seasoned brewers.

Consensus was that Julius was all citra. Keep in mind this beer started life as "Nate's Citra". With how secretive they are about their processes, it doesn't surprise me that they change the name to throw off cloners like us.

Green started with the citra flavor and finished with what we believed to be galaxy or possibly some moteuka (I cannot verify as I've never used moteuka).

Curiosity 23 started with how green finished, which lends itself to galaxy. It's finish was amarillo.

Alter ego started like Julius (citra) and had a very reminiscent finish to curiosity 23.

Researching the one recipe that I have found from nate from beer and brewing (https://beerandbrewing.com/VUKlMSgAABcrKfnm/article/hoppy-thing-recipe) it wouldn't surprise me if that grain base is extremely similar to what they actually use. Paired with a high flocculation yeast, I think this would be amazing.
Click to expand...

Through what internet research I could do I've come to many similar conclusions. Awesome tasting!

Julius - All USA Hops - Citra
Alter Ego - Julius base - Dry Hop: Mosaic and Amarillo
Haze - Any ideas? - "hops we currently have plenty of access to" - treehouse
Green - Australian and USA Hops - Citra? Galaxy/Motueka?
Sap - Mostly Chinook, Simcoe, Columbus
 

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