Beers changing drastically after force carbonation

[bgburdman9]

I bought a kegging system from keg connection a few months ago. Since then I have put common room esb, a black ipa, and an ipa with mostly maris otter on tap. The esb was not that great post fermentation but the other 2 had a great hop aroma and flavor when sampled before putting it in the keg. Both ipas had around 80-100 ibus and 8-10 ounces of finishing hops (<5 minutes and dry hops). The ipas especially have changed drastically once carbonation started. The bitterness has decreased and hop flavor has changed from being fresh and citrusy to flat and characteristics I cannot even name. I have a robust porter ready to keg it next couple of weeks and dont really want to waste another 5 gallons of beer. I have not been able to determine what the problem is. I have considered naturally carbing my porter to see if it tastes better. My water here also sucks. I usually dilute with at least 50% distilled especially in lighter beers.

I really love this hobby but making this many crappy beers in a row is getting frustrating. I was wondering if any one has a tips or ideas to help make my finished product better. Here is my water profile copied straight from the ward lab report so you can see where I am starting.


pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 441
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.74
Cations / Anions, me/L 8.5 / 8.3

ppm

Sodium, Na 23
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 94
Magnesium, Mg 33
Total Hardness, CaCO3 373
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 9
Chloride, Cl 41
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 397
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 325

 

[mattiemo]

once kegged did you purge out the o2? also how long are you waiting after you carb it? bottling takes weeks to carb so the flavor will change. try carbing in the keg and waiting a couple weeks. i have noticed it only gets better as the keg gets lower (time).

if you are looking for a more fresh hop flavor and aroma could also try dry hopping in the keg.

 

[SmokeShank]

how cold was your beer when you first sampled it?

 

[Backporchbrewery]

I kegged a jalapeno wheat that had almost no flavor freshly kegged but after a couple weeks all the flavors really showed up. Give it a little time and taste it again.

 

[bgburdman9]

The beer is set at 38 degrees but the freezer floats a couple degrees either way. I gave the mild a couple months and dumped it. The black ipa has been on for more than 2 months now and the ipa is at 3 weeks kegged.

I think my problem may actually be oxidation. I have not purged my kegs before siphoning to the keg. Ill make sure to do this next time. Any other suggestions?

 

[jmf143]

Maybe its the gas/CO2 tank. Beverage-grade gas is recommended for dipensing beer/soda. I get my CO2 from AirGas, and though its not beverage-grade it doesn't impart any off flavors to my kegged beer.

 

[chefchris]

The beer is set at 38 degrees but the freezer floats a couple degrees either way. I gave the mild a couple months and dumped it. The black ipa has been on for more than 2 months now and the ipa is at 3 weeks kegged.

I think my problem may actually be oxidation. I have not purged my kegs before siphoning to the keg. Ill make sure to do this next time. Any other suggestions?

I wouldn't bet on you not purging the kegs being the problem. I use to purge mine everytime and for some reason I just stopped. Never noticed a difference and never had anyone say that my beer was oxidized, and literally every friend I have is a homebrewer.

I do purge the head space once the keg is full.

I find that my beers taste completely different while they're carbing up. I've just stopped trying them until I know they're carbed. But it sounds like you're having problems much further down the line.

How do you clean and sanitize your kegs and beer line?

 

[devilishprune]

How long after kegging are you drinking them?

 

[Yooper]

Your water sucks! It's very alkaline. It's worse than mine, and I dilute mine at least 50/50 with RO. What kind of water treatment are you doing? Besides the dilution. I suspect the problem isn't force carbing, but it's the water that is "dulling" the hops. I'm surprised you're not complaining of astringency with that high of an alkalinity!

Did you try using all RO water and a teaspoon of calcium chloride for just one brew? I would. I'd just do one batch like that, to see if it fixed the problem.

 

[chefchris]

only thing is if it was his water he would've noticed this in his bottled beers as well. of course, I'm assuming he bottled first.

but you're right, I wouldn't trade water with him.

 

[bgburdman9]

I got my co2 filled at silco which was recommended by a local homebrew store and club.

I have not been purging the kegs even when filled.

I do not think cleaning or sanitizing is the problem.

I know my water sucks big time and I hate having to buy distilled just to make decent beer. I have been mixing 50/50 distilled and tap and adding CaCl and gypsum to get to appropriate levels per style. The two ipas have tasted great post fermentation but before putting in the keg. I dont see why the beer would taste good before carbonation but not after if it was the water.

I have only bottled an imperial stout since moving here last summer and I did not notice these flavors. It was higher in alcohol and had lots of dark malt so it may have covered up some of the imperfections.

 

[chefchris]

i had a similar problem to yours not long after I started kegging. Found out it was my cleaning that did it. I used oxy clean and starsan. I've scratched that and now I boil about half a gallon of water, jump it in the keg, swirl it around, pressure it up and pour it through the beer out line.

I don't know if this is your problem, but it's worth a try. Believe me, I know it's frustrating.

 

[matpat]

I'm no expert when it comes to water quality but it seems that Pale Ales require more sulfate than chloride to accentuate the hop bitterness in them. I wonder if the cl/so4 ratio in his water isn't to blame? Since the three batches that have turned out "badly" were an ESB and 2 IPAs I would assume bgburdman9 might want a higher sulfate to chloride ratio than what is present in his tap and/or diluted water. The lack of bitterness in previous batches may have went unnoticed depending on the type of beers that were previously brewed.

 

[matpat]

I have been mixing 50/50 distilled and tap and adding CaCl and gypsum to get to appropriate levels per style. The two ipas have tasted great post fermentation but before putting in the keg. I dont see why the beer would taste good before carbonation but not after if it was the water.

I just re-read this post and found the above mentioned.

I have made several extract batches of Biermuncher's Nierra Sevada clone and they have turned out nicely. However, my first AG batch tastes "maltier" after about a month in the keg with a much lesser hop aroma than my extract batches. From my water notes for the AG batch I adjusted the SO4/Cl ratio to about a 1:1 ratio and it too tasted great out of the fermenter with a nice hop aroma. Out of curiosity what was your so4/cl ratio?