Will reducing AG runoff hurt anything?

I did search the site for wort reduction and I didn't find what I needed, so:

I only have a four gallon pot and a five gallon pot. And, my stove won't boil 5 gallons with the lid off, which, I understand is a must for AG.

I want to try an all grain. I have picked up a lot of useful information on different ways to do this.

Here is what I plan to do.

First, I'll start a smack pack 3 days in advance.

1)Boil 2 gallons of water in the 5 gallon pot and set aside to cool.

2)Preheat the oven, using an oven thermometer, to 155 degrees.

3)Heat 2.5 gallons of water in the 4 gallons pot to 170 and add the grains to steep, hopefully targeting 155 degrees.

4)Put the steeping grains in the oven, it fits, for 1 hour.

5)Take the 2 gallons of water, after cooled, and put into carboy and cap.

6)Heat 4 gallons in the 5 gallon pot to 180.

7)Drain the steeping grains and set the grains into my bottling buck with the grain bag stretched over sides of the bucket.

8)Pour the 180 degree water into the bottling bucket with grains to rinse the excess sugars attempting to target 170 for efficiency.

9)Without stirring, immediately pull the grain bag to let it drain.

10)Put the drain water back on the stove and reduce the liquid down to a 3.5 gallon total(steeping water included but not reduced).

11)Add the steeping water and bring to a boil for 30 minutes to boil off unwanted dimethyl sulfide from the grains.

12)perform bittering and finishing and then cool.

13)Add wort to 2 gallons of clean water

14)Pitch yeast

I have two reason for wanting to reduce the wort down:
-my stove will not produce a roiling boil with 5 gallons of water
-the reduce wort will cool faster reducing contamination

I think you mean mashing the grains yes? Okay.

Sounds pretty complicated and may make it not very fun. I am assuming you are trying to go all grain without investing in new equipment yes?

You could do a smaller batch for one.

Or you could collect the runoff and then divide it between the two pots you have thereby boiling 2 smaller quantities. You would also divide the hops and add half to each pot.

You would be able to cool the 2 pots probably with an ice bath like in extract. It would take some time but not too bad.

Zymurgrafi said:

I think you mean mashing the grains yes? Okay.

Sounds pretty complicated and may make it not very fun. I am assuming you are trying to go all grain without investing in new equipment yes?

Click to expand...

Yes, I',m a tight ass.

You could do a smaller batch for one.

Or you could collect the runoff and then divide it between the two pots you have thereby boiling 2 smaller quantities. You would also divide the hops and add half to each pot.

You would be able to cool the 2 pots probably with an ice bath like in extract. It would take some time but not too bad.

Click to expand...

But, will reducing the wort hurt anything? As long as I am careful not to scorch it.

All wort derived from mashing and sparging must be boiled.

Anyone? ...

The question is a little confusing because ALL AG wort is reduced via boiling but I just read your first post over again. I understand you want to start off by boiling your first runnings, then you want to add your previously collected sparge runnings.

The biggest problem you're going to have is efficiency because you're topping up with 2 gallons of water. Also, your step #9 should say "stirring well" not "without stirring".

If you have a bucket to collect wort in, you should be able to collect the required 6.5 gallons and split it between your 4 and 5 gallon pots.

Bobby_M said:

The question is a little confusing because ALL AG wort is reduced via boiling but I just read your first post over again. I understand you want to start off by boiling your first runnings, then you want to add your previously collected sparge runnings.

The biggest problem you're going to have is efficiency because you're topping up with 2 gallons of water. Also, your step #9 should say "stirring well" not "without stirring".

If you have a bucket to collect wort in, you should be able to collect the required 6.5 gallons and split it between your 4 and 5 gallon pots.

Click to expand...

I was told by stirring the sugar gets suspended in the mash. By not stirring, this allows the sugars to sink to the bottom which is where I want them for when I pull the grain bag.

Anyhow, I still would have the problem of cooling all of that wort.

I guess I should simplifiy the question.

I want to start out by boiling/santizing 2 gallons of water so that this 2 gallons is pitching tempurature by the time everything else is done.

Then, I want mash/sparge the grains using plenty of water for efficiency. However I want to start my boil with 3.5 gallons. In order to do that I will have to reduce my steeping and sparge water down to 3.5 gallons. This way after I boil (with the lid off), I can end up with 3 gallons to cool. Which I am comfortable with cooling inside of 20 minutes with 1.5 gallons in each pot.

Then I will add this cooled three gallons to the 2 gallons and take reading.

Is there a recipe you're trying to do? I can run the numbers in BTP for you.

The concept of sparging without disturbing the grain bed is more like fly sparging but that's not going to happen with brew in a bag. You really do want to stir it well like a batch sparge for higher efficiency.

One problem you'll find is that starting with 3.5 gallons, you'll boil down to 3 gallons in about 25 minutes. Typical boiloff rate starts at 1 gallon per 60 minutes.

Bobby

Bobby_M said:

Is there a recipe you're trying to do? I can run the numbers in BTP for you.

Click to expand...

Pretty simple really

10lbs 2-row
Cascade hops

I do plan to protein rest and then move the grain bag to 155 degree water and put it in the oven at 155 for an hour. Then I will add water to the protein rest water and heat it for sparging.

And, I will probably have to reduce around 6 gallons down to 3.5 before starting the boil.

Assuming 60% efficiency (liberal estimate) on the extraction on 4 gallons preboil, boiled down to 3 gallons in 50 minutes, here's what you get. Note, the 3 gallons would be about 1.067 before you dilute with 2 gallons of water.

[size=+2]Untitled Recipe[/size]
[size=+1]0- Untitled Style[/size]



Size: 5.04 gal
Efficiency: 60.0%
Attenuation: 78.0%
Calories: 132.93 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.040 (1.000 - 1.100)
|==============#=================|
Terminal Gravity: 1.009 (1.000 - 1.100)
|=========#======================|
Color: 3.57 (0.0 - 50.0)
|=========#======================|
Alcohol: 4.11% (0.0% - 10.0%)
|==============#=================|
Bitterness: 24.7 (0.0 - 50.0)
|===============#================|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
10.0 lb American 2-row
.75 oz Cascade (7.6%) - added during boil, boiled 50 min

[/size]

Bobby_M said:

Assuming 60% efficiency (liberal estimate) on the extraction on 4 gallons preboil, boiled down to 3 gallons in 50 minutes, here's what you get. Note, the 3 gallons would be about 1.067 before you dilute with 2 gallons of water.

[size=+2]Untitled Recipe[/size]
[size=+1]0- Untitled Style[/size]



Size: 5.04 gal
Efficiency: 60.0%
Attenuation: 78.0%
Calories: 132.93 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.040 (1.000 - 1.100)
|==============#=================|
Terminal Gravity: 1.009 (1.000 - 1.100)
|=========#======================|
Color: 3.57 (0.0 - 50.0)
|=========#======================|
Alcohol: 4.11% (0.0% - 10.0%)
|==============#=================|
Bitterness: 24.7 (0.0 - 50.0)
|===============#================|

[size=+1]Ingredients:[/size]
10.0 lb American 2-row
.75 oz Cascade (7.6%) - added during boil, boiled 50 min

[/size]

Click to expand...

I plan to use 6 gallons of water altogether between the protein rest, steep and sparge.

What does six gallons spit out?

I thought you only planned on collecting 3.5 gallons.

Bobby_M said:

I thought you only planned on collecting 3.5 gallons.

Click to expand...

I will use 3 gallons to steep and 3 gallons to sparge, plus I will have 2 gallons already cooled. So, whatever I am left with after the sparge. I will have to reduce this amount down to 3.5 before bittering. Once bittering is done. I should be down to around 3 gallons which I will add to the 2 gallons of cold water in order to bring the temp down fast.

Why don't you just do either a Partial Mash, Split boil in your two pots, or realaize that to do a 5G AG Batch, you need a bigger pot! I linked to this thread from the other one and where you ask questions but then don't seem to want to listen to the answers you're getting because they don't agree with the ideas already stuck in your head. If you know better then the people you are asking, why ask. Just do it your way and see how it goes. As you mentioned already, you don't mind wasting the 10 pounds of grain and the hops.
Just realize that boiling 3.5 gallons, boiling two split batches, and boiling a full volume in a big enough pot are all going to yield different results from the same hop bill.
For sparging, you need to sparge for your full boil volume or you be wasting a lot of the sugars you're trying to get and end up with a LOW OG. And stir between each sparge.

Listen to Bobby_M and the others trying to help when you ask for it, or do it the way you decided to before asking for help.

Sorry to be a jerk, but I hate when people ask for help, but then seem to complain when the answers aren't what you wanted to hear.
Go to you're local college campus, give some frat boy 30 bucks for his old keg, and boil AG Full boils.

IrregularPulse said:

Why don't you just do either a Partial Mash, Split boil in your two pots, or realaize that to do a 5G AG Batch, you need a bigger pot! I linked to this thread from the other one and where you ask questions but then don't seem to want to listen to the answers you're getting because they don't agree with the ideas already stuck in your head. If you know better then the people you are asking, why ask. Just do it your way and see how it goes. As you mentioned already, you don't mind wasting the 10 pounds of grain and the hops.
Just realize that boiling 3.5 gallons, boiling two split batches, and boiling a full volume in a big enough pot are all going to yield different results from the same hop bill.
For sparging, you need to sparge for your full boil volume or you be wasting a lot of the sugars you're trying to get and end up with a LOW OG. And stir between each sparge.

Listen to Bobby_M and the others trying to help when you ask for it, or do it the way you decided to before asking for help.

Sorry to be a jerk, but I hate when people ask for help, but then seem to complain when the answers aren't what you wanted to hear.
Go to you're local college campus, give some frat boy 30 bucks for his old keg, and boil AG Full boils.

Click to expand...

Here is a link to check out. I bought some equipment and plan to do things differently. The only thing I notice around here is that everyone has there own way of doing things. Stir, don't stir and boil in two pots, boil in one. I had already read the entire How to Brew by Palmer before coming here. So, some of what I was hearing was conflicting with what I had read which everyone around here seems to reference. Maybe some of you should go back a re-read how the chemical break down of the amino acids happen.