Time for bottles to Fridge??

All,

I'm doing a couple of batches of Imperial Pale Ale (Brewer's Best LME kit). And I'm in a rush to serve them at an event in a few weeks. I've heard that the beer should be in the bottle for around two weeks which I've been doing for all my previous batches(for conditioning, etc.) and then (instructions and forum input says) it should go into the fridge for a week or two before serving.

And for the sake of our discussion here, it's the LAST point that I'm asking about.
1. Why does it need to be chilled for at least a week before serving?
2. Does the cold temp do something specific or important, like stop the beer from fermenting or whatever?

3. Lastly, My second batch may only get 3 days in the fridge before the event, will it matter?

Thanks very much


Bud (the WorryWort)

Giving at least a week fridge time will allow any chill haze to form & settle out like a fog. Plus getting good carbonation is not a quick deal. I've had beers take two weeks fridge time to get long lasting carbonation & thicker head. One week is pretty good most of the time, but two weeks can be better. In your case, one week should do. in the case of the last batch, 3 days might work OK. As long as that 2 weeks primary time gave the beer enough time to finish fermenting & settle out clear or slightly misty before bottling.

unionrdr said:

Giving at least a week fridge time will allow any chill haze to form & settle out like a fog. Plus getting good carbonation is not a quick deal. I've had beers take two weeks fridge time to get long lasting carbonation & thicker head. One week is pretty good most of the time, but two weeks can be better. In your case, one week should do. in the case of the last batch, 3 days might work OK. As long as that 2 weeks primary time gave the beer enough time to finish fermenting & settle out clear or slightly misty before bottling.

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So the fridge time contributes to carbonation and clearing.

Then on my second batch which I just bottled on the 22nd two days ago and have to serve on Oct 11. Would you suggest cutting short the room temp storage time of two weeks to get some more cold time? If I leave the bottles at room temp for a full 2 weeks (22sep to 06 oct), then I'll only get 4 full days in the fridge before serving.

Does more carbonation happen at room temp or cold?

unionrdr said:

Giving at least a week fridge time will allow any chill haze to form & settle out like a fog. Plus getting good carbonation is not a quick deal. I've had beers take two weeks fridge time to get long lasting carbonation & thicker head. One week is pretty good most of the time, but two weeks can be better. In your case, one week should do. in the case of the last batch, 3 days might work OK. As long as that 2 weeks primary time gave the beer enough time to finish fermenting & settle out clear or slightly misty before bottling.

Click to expand...

So the fridge time contributes to carbonation and clearing.

Then on my second batch which I just bottled on the 22nd two days ago and have to serve on Oct 11. Would you suggest cutting short the room temp storage time of two weeks to get some more cold time? If I leave the bottles at room temp for a full 2 weeks (22sep to 06 oct), then I'll only get 4 full days in the fridge before serving.

Does more carbonation happen at room temp or cold?

Thanks

if you're worried about carbonation, you might want to consider leaving it OUTSIDE the fridg. 80f for a day and you might be done...

The yeast in your bottles needs a couple of weeks at room temperature, 68°F to 75°F, to ferment out the priming sugar and produce CO2. Chilling the bottles after this time will force the CO2 into solution and compact the yeast cake in the bottom of the bottle.
First warm temperatures for the yeast do their job, and then cold temperatures to force the CO2 into solution.

If I had to cut short the bottle conditioning I'd cut the fridge time. I like to leave my bottles at room temp for 2 weeks before refrigerating to make sure carbonation is complete (that's for a mid-gravity beer). The biggest thing with refrigerating is clearing the beer. If you don't mind a little haze (doesn't affect the taste) then you can drink them as soon as they are cold enough for your taste.

Then I'll pull the second batch into the house for a week to warm it up just a bit more. It's a bit cooler in my garage up here in new England.

Thanks all

Yup. Carb & condition time at warm room temps is definitely more important! 4 days fridge time would be Ok if you really have to.

dkevinb said:

If I had to cut short the bottle conditioning I'd cut the fridge time. I like to leave my bottles at room temp for 2 weeks before refrigerating to make sure carbonation is complete (that's for a mid-gravity beer). The biggest thing with refrigerating is clearing the beer. If you don't mind a little haze (doesn't affect the taste) then you can drink them as soon as they are cold enough for your taste.

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+1 to this. I would definitely sacrifice fridge time to be sure the yeast ferment all of the priming sugar. Carbonation happens at room temp and not fridge temp. So you need to allow ample time for the yeast to consume all of the priming sugar you add before you chill them down (which will cause them to cease their activity and go dormant). As unionrdr said, the fridge time is for clearing chill haze and dropping particulates out faster. This helps the beer to look clearer and helps keep carbonation around longer in the glass by reducing nucleation sites that cause the CO2 to come out of solution more quickly after you pour the beer.

Chilling the beer isn't needed to "force CO2 into solution". Once the yeast produce the CO2 it's always in solution at pretty much the same level whether it's at room temp or fridge temp.

Hmm. This is great input gang.
I've been holding my bottles in a spot in my garage that stays relatively cool. Where I stored my primary, actually so it wont get too Hot. But I'm hearing that it would help for the bottles to be in a warmer environment during this period.

I already moved my first batch to the fridge 2 days ago. This batch was being stored for 10 days in the 50-65' F range. Do you think I should pull it out and store at a warmer temp for while? will that wake up the yeast to get back to work on the priming sugars, or is it too late for that??

Thanks

The yeast are probably still awake. Your garage wasn't cool enough to force the yeast into dormancy. They will carb at that temperature, but it will take weeks longer than if they were warmer.
Bring them in. You can gently tip the bottles once, to put the yeast back into suspension after the bottles warm up. This will help speed the carbonation process.

CBUDGO said:

Hmm. This is great input gang.
I've been holding my bottles in a spot in my garage that stays relatively cool. Where I stored my primary, actually so it wont get too Hot. But I'm hearing that it would help for the bottles to be in a warmer environment during this period.

I already moved my first batch to the fridge 2 days ago. This batch was being stored for 10 days in the 50-65' F range. Do you think I should pull it out and store at a warmer temp for while? will that wake up the yeast to get back to work on the priming sugars, or is it too late for that??

Thanks

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Yes, you should definitely move them to a warmer spot. And I would take them back out of the fridge. I would say they are almost certainly not carbonated after 10 days at 50-65F. 2 weeks above 70F and you would probably be good. If it's in the 60sF range it will be more like 3 or more weeks. You can always sacrifice one to check the carbonation level. Well I guess it would only be a sacrifice if it wasn't carbed. And I would still drink it anyway.

I've pulled my first batch from the fridge and have given them all a gentle turn and this weekend we are due for a couple of days at 80 degrees F. That should set me up for a nice finish. Whew!

This post really helps, thank you all! I've had my bottles at 78degrees for 3 weeks and tried one during my last brew session after only chilling a few hours. I had stomach ache that night and my throat hurt next day, damn yeast were still active!

Will chill much longer now

groutgauss said:

This post really helps, thank you all! I've had my bottles at 78degrees for 3 weeks and tried one during my last brew session after only chilling a few hours. I had stomach ache that night and my throat hurt next day, damn yeast were still active!

Will chill much longer now

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Chilling the bottles will not kill the yeast. They just go to sleepy sleep with minimal activity. I'm lucky I guess; never bothered me a bit. If live yeast is a problem for you, then you have 3 options:

- slowly get accustomed to it (And I believe you will)
- consider pastuerizing in the bottle which can be tricky (I've not done it)
- filter yeast out and force carb in a keg ($$)

Back to the original poster, I would go 1.5 weeks at elevated temps (70 for first 2 days, 76-80 for 8 days). Then fridge as close to 32F as you can get for a week to settle out chill haze and yeast. Make sure before you serve them you warm them back up to optimal temps for taste, usually in low to mid 40's. Cheers!

groutgauss said:

This post really helps, thank you all! I've had my bottles at 78degrees for 3 weeks and tried one during my last brew session after only chilling a few hours. I had stomach ache that night and my throat hurt next day, damn yeast were still active!

Will chill much longer now

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Yeast are always in any beer that hasn't been pasteurized or filtered or something. They shouldn't make your throat hurt. They can cause GI discomfort sometimes. I don't think chilling the bottle for only a few hours is the cause of those symptoms though.

Thank you peterj and solbes. Maybe I was coming down with something? I've had tonsil issues all my life (never had them out) so I may be hyper-sensitive. Will chill a week to be sure and maybe try pasteurizing (I've heard of dishwasher methods) before chilling.

Hmm not sure what the dishwasher might do. Maybe you are thinking of sanitizing bottles (before filling them) using the heat cycle of a dishwasher.

The tricky thing about pastuerizing is that you have a loaded grenade in your carbonated bottles which are sealed with a cap. You need to heat them up enough to kill the yeast, but not so fast and not so hot to explode the bottle. Personally I would want no part of it. Proceed only if you research the crap out of it and take proper precautions.

The first batch of 12 oz bottles and 1 750 ml bottles came out great!

The second batch of 750s is flat! . Any ideas?

The bigger bottles will need more time to carb up.

Thanks. More time in the cold??

Or should I have left them out at room temp longer?

Worrywort

CBUDGO said:

Thanks. More time in the cold??

Or should I have left them out at room temp longer?

Worrywort

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Room temp. Yeast don't make carbonation in the fridge, they go dormant.

Since you said it was the 2nd batch of bottles, I'm guessing you bottled them more recently than the 1st. So it sounds like they just need more time for the yeast to consume the priming sugar and make CO2. Again, the carbonation will not ever increase once you put them in the fridge.

Your beer will taste fine with 45 minutes in the freezer. Where does it come in that it has to be refrigerated for days or weeks? Other than cosmetic issues its fine. Once it's carbed it's carbed. In every competition I've been present for judging sessions they chilled the beer that day. I've won medals, with extract beers, that got tasted after less than two weeks in the bottle, that I know we're chilled that day. Most brewing myths are just that, myths.

Mine take more time in the fridge to absorb Co2 than freezer time did. I tried the freezer before with minimal results. I always thought competition beers would see at least a week fridge time before sending them out? So at that point, they wouldn't need as much fridge time? I always wondered about that part of it?

unionrdr said:

Mine take more time in the fridge to absorb Co2 than freezer time did. I tried the freezer before with minimal results. I always thought competition beers would see at least a week fridge time before sending them out? So at that point, they wouldn't need as much fridge time? I always wondered about that part of it?

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Chilling the beer isn't needed for it to "absorb the CO2". Because of the pressurized system created in the bottle, once the yeast produce the CO2 it's always in solution at pretty much the same level whether it's at room temp or fridge temp.

But it is also true that cold liquids absorb Co2 easier than warm ones. The beer & head space are always seeking an equilibrium. So chilling does, in my experience, get more gas into solution. Storage temps also figure into this though.

I like to chill my carbed bottles for 2+ days, to achieve equilibrium, it also seems to compact the yeast and make it "stick" to the bottom of the glass better.

unionrdr said:

But it is also true that cold liquids absorb Co2 easier than warm ones. The beer & head space are always seeking an equilibrium. So chilling does, in my experience, get more gas into solution. Storage temps also figure into this though.

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The solubility of gas in a liquid is dependent on temperature and pressure. Lower temperatures allow more CO2 to be dissolved, but higher pressures also allow more CO2 to be dissolved. When the yeast consume the priming sugar, all of the CO2 that is going to be in the beer is in the closed system of the bottle. This puts the beer at a high pressure, allowing it to have 2.5 volumes (or so) of CO2 dissolved in it at room temperature.

When you chill it down, the decrease in temperature makes the beer want to absorb CO2. But because the amount of CO2 in the headspace is so small, only a very small amount of CO2 needs to be absorbed before the pressure in the bottle is reduced which causes the beer to not be able to absorb any more CO2. The thermal contraction of the liquid caused by chilling will also work to reduce the pressure which causes an even smaller amount of CO2 to be absorbed and might even negate the entire effect. Even ignoring thermal contraction, the amount of carbonation difference between a room temp beer and a chilled one would be so small that it would be negligible and impossible to notice. And because the change is so small (if there even is one) it does not take days to happen, it will happen pretty instantly. It's basically always at equilibrium. So the beer contains about the same amount of dissolved CO2 no matter what temperature it's at.

If you want real world proof of this, just open up a room temp beer. I guarantee it will be just as carbonated as a cold one. Though the carbonation will definitely come out of solution much faster after you open it.

But I agree that chilling beer for a few days or weeks is a good idea for conditioning purposes and to settle out proteins, chill haze, yeast, etc.

Interesting summation. But in my experiences thus far, a room temp beer that's had no fridge time doesn't have/hold carbonation like a chilled one. Nor has it been an instantaneous process. Carbonation in solution at room temp takes a lot longer than chilling in my experiences. Nor does it last as long. I've seen this time & again.

I blame the caps. A reminder, this is a 750 ml amber bottle with a Grolsh style or flip cap.

Well, I went with extra time out of the fridge. And added another week and a half.
Then added some more time in the fridge. also more than suggested. I've also saved about 6 bottles at room temp too.

But bottom line no carbonation. It smells and tastes great. Looks nice too. But not a bubble. Also the alcohol content is great. Nica a strong. My gravity readings were on target too.

The caps will pop but no hiss when opening. And not a bit of carbonation in the glass no matter how aggressive you pour into the bottle. I've even shaken the bottle before and after opening before pouring and it's flat.

This is my 7th or 8th batch. my second time in these bottles and caps. The first time in 750's went fine. I bottled about a dozen as gifts at Christmas and all was good except for 2 were only OK on carbonation. One of those were held for about 9 months.

This time the only thing that stands out is I really sanitized my caps. Dropped them in a bowl of sanitizer before affixing them to the bottles after they were filled. Too slippery??

I'm sticking to 12oz and growlers going forward.

any further ideas??