Yeast Washing Illustrated

[Yaksha808]

No, I was trying the no rinse approach

 

[methusula110]

I was inspired by this thread to give rinsing/harvesting yeast a try (I harvested this batch of WLP002 yesterday). I'm sorry if this has been answered, but the thread is 200 pages +. Please tell me if i have this right, I included some pics of my harvest

1. As long as I use the yeast within one week I can pitch it directly (after bringing it to room temp) into the cooled wort

2. If I use it within two weeks, I need to add some wort or DME to wake up yeast and pitch

3. After two weeks a starter will be required

 

[darknight3684]

I sooo needed this!!! Thanks!!!

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[mtnagel]

I was inspired by this thread to give rinsing/harvesting yeast a try (I harvested this batch of WLP002 yesterday). I'm sorry if this has been answered, but the thread is 200 pages +. Please tell me if i have this right, I included some pics of my harvest

1. As long as I use the yeast within one week I can pitch it directly (after bringing it to room temp) into the cooled wort

2. If I use it within two weeks, I need to add some wort or DME to wake up yeast and pitch

3. After two weeks a starter will be required

What's the difference between 2 and 3?

I don't think 1 is universally true. When rinsing yeast, you are losing a bunch of yeast. Use Mr. Malty's calculator on the "repitching from slurry tab". You're going to have to adjust the sliders based on what you have. If you hover over the triangle slider, you will get some help. That will tell you if you have enough slurry to pitch directly.

Having said that, if you know you are going to use the same yeast within a couple weeks, don't even bother rinsing. Just harvest the slurry from the bottom into a sanitized container and refrigerate. You can use Mr Malty to get the amount to pitch, but in this case, it will most likely be a "thick slurry" but the non yeast percentage will be higher. For info on using the yeast cake, read at least the first post in this thread.

 

[methusula110]

What's the difference between 2 and 3?]

I was reading from several sources and it seemed like a good average. I guess the difference (other than 7 days) is there has to be a cut off somewhere, and I'm trying to make this as simple as I can. Hopefully, after some experience I can refine the practice a little. I am planning on making high gravity brew this weekend with one of the collected jars and wanted to make see if anyone has success with pitching it straight from the jar (after brought up to room temp)

 

[bzwyatt]

I always have a couple buckets of sanitizer around on brewday and I put my jars of yeast in one of them to equalize the temp, usually when I start chilling my wort. (Yeast is dense and the jars sink fast, so be careful not to just drop them in a 5-gal bucket if you do this).

 

[mtnagel]

What's the difference between 2 and 3?]

I was reading from several sources and it seemed like a good average. I guess the difference (other than 7 days) is there has to be a cut off somewhere, and I'm trying to make this as simple as I can. Hopefully, after some experience I can refine the practice a little. I am planning on making high gravity brew this weekend with one of the collected jars and wanted to make see if anyone has success with pitching it straight from the jar (after brought up to room temp)

To me making a starter is the same as adding DME, so that's why I was confused.

So you said you "harvested" WLP002. Does that mean you simply scooped up some of the yeast cake from the bottom of the fermentation bucket and saved it or did you rinse it according to the original post in this thread?

Let me know the gravity of the beer you want to make and I can help you run through how to use MrMalty. I'm guessing if you rinsed, you will need to make a starter and if you just harvested the yeast cake, you won't.

 

[methusula110]

Matt, I rinsed it according to the original post. However, I split the batch in thirds rather than fourths. I'm going for a 1.075 OG.

 

[tehnick]

I always harvest from the top crop on my ales. I do not have a fridge so I don't do many lager beers except for winter when I can use nature. On the 3rd day of fermentation I check the krausen and if of looks good then I boil a couple jars, lids, and a stainless spoon. I make sure some of the boiled water is in each jar, cool it down, and use the spoon to scrape yeast from the top of the beer. I usually get a crazy amount of really healthy yeast that I can straight pitch without a starter if used within a couple weeks. I have found that if I do have to create a starter then I need something with a lot of head space because it will foam over a flask. I have a 5 liter jug that I now use for 1-2 liter starters just to be safe.

Sent from my super rad tablet device thingy.

 

[mtnagel]

Matt, I rinsed it according to the original post. However, I split the batch in thirds rather than fourths. I'm going for a 1.075 OG.

Here's what you'd enter in Mr. Malty:

I used your new OG, your harvest date and kept the default for yeast concentration and non-yeast percentage. So you need 138 ml of the slurry from the bottom of your containers. I'm going to assume you don't have enough from your pictures so I would definitely make a starter.

To estimate how much yeast you have, take the volume of yeast you have (i'm going to assume 50 ml just to give you an example) and multiply by the yeast concentration (assumed 2.4 billion/ml from Mr. Malty above).

50 ml * 2.4 b/ml = 120 billion

Multiply that by the yeast % (assumed to be 85% because 100% minus 15% default non-yeast % from Mr. Malty is 85%).

120 b * 85% = 102 billion

Then multiply by the viability - 90% based on your harvest day of 2/2/14, so

102 b * 90% = 92 billion.

Then I'd drop that number into a yeast starter calculator like yeastcalc.com and you'd get that you need to make a 1.7L stirred starter to get the counts you need for your beer. This is what it looks like:

Obviously you need to redo the math because I just picked 50 ml of yeast slurry and you can change any of the numbers I assumed to see what you need. Hope that helps.

 

[Kmcogar]

I feel like the original post lacks information. I original used one large mason jar (32 ounces I think) and 4 small ones (8 ounces). But when you put the washed yeast into the small ones you are only supposed to pour in the middle layer, which means no way a 32 ounces jar is gonna fill 4 eight ounce jars when you can only use half to get good clean yeast. So I used 2 large mason jars this time and only filled 3 small mason jars. The 4th mason jar I poured straight from the carboy. You can see the difference between one washed yeast jar that came from the middle later of the mason jar and the jar that came straight from the carboy. I was very pleased with my results. Check it out



The one on the right was straight from the carboy. The one on the left was washed properly. WLP300 by the way.

 

[methusula110]

Matt, you're making my brain hurt. LOL. I just wanted to dump jars in my wort , I'll look this over, but the measuring seems a little daunting to me. I guess I have more homework to do.........

 

[dobe12]

What's the difference between 2 and 3?

I don't think 1 is universally true. When rinsing yeast, you are losing a bunch of yeast. Use Mr. Malty's calculator on the "repitching from slurry tab". You're going to have to adjust the sliders based on what you have. If you hover over the triangle slider, you will get some help. That will tell you if you have enough slurry to pitch directly.

Having said that, if you know you are going to use the same yeast within a couple weeks, don't even bother rinsing. Just harvest the slurry from the bottom into a sanitized container and refrigerate. You can use Mr Malty to get the amount to pitch, but in this case, it will most likely be a "thick slurry" but the non yeast percentage will be higher. For info on using the yeast cake, read at least the first post in this thread.

I would agree with these statements. Rinsing yeast can actually be detrimental to the yeasts overall health. I use to rinse yeast, but have done a lot of reading about the practice over the last 6 months or so and am now a believer in no rinse. Simply rack you beer off the cake, leaving just a bit of beer behind to swirl up the yeast. Pour that slurry into 2 or 3 large mason jars (sanitized of course). Pop'em in the fridge and be done with it. Use Mr.Malty's slurry calculator (as described a few posts ago) and there you go.

This is less time consuming, easier, and may even be better for the yeast. By rinsing the yeast and storing it under boiled and cooled water compared to beer, you are actually creating an unhealthy environment.

I'm gonna do it again... but Mr. Denny Conn was another big reason I don't rinse anymore. Are your ears burning Denny?

 

[jwalker1140]

I would agree with these statements. Rinsing yeast can actually be detrimental to the yeasts overall health. I use to rinse yeast, but have done a lot of reading about the practice over the last 6 months or so and am now a believer in no rinse. Simply rack you beer off the cake, leaving just a bit of beer behind to swirl up the yeast. Pour that slurry into 2 or 3 large mason jars (sanitized of course). Pop'em in the fridge and be done with it. Use Mr.Malty's slurry calculator (as described a few posts ago) and there you go.

This is less time consuming, easier, and may even be better for the yeast. By rinsing the yeast and storing it under boiled and cooled water compared to beer, you are actually creating an unhealthy environment.

I'm gonna do it again... but Mr. Denny Conn was another big reason I don't rinse anymore. Are your ears burning Denny?

+1 to all of this.

The experience I had when I moved away from rinsing yeast to simply collecting slurry is crazy similar to the experience I had when I stopped transferring to secondary. Actually, my move away from rinsing yeast has had a bigger positive impact on my beers than when I stopped doing a secondary, but the pros vs. cons are essentially the same. Just my personal experience, YMMV.

 

[methusula110]

Simply rack you beer off the cake, leaving just a bit of beer behind to swirl up the yeast. Pour that slurry into 2 or 3 large mason jars (sanitized of course). Pop'em in the fridge and be done with it. Use Mr.Malty's slurry calculator (as described a few posts ago) and there you go.

This is less time consuming, easier, and may even be better for the yeast. By rinsing the yeast and storing it under boiled and cooled water compared to beer, you are actually creating an unhealthy environment.

This sounds a lot easier than the washing process. I'll try it this way on my next batch,which will be ready in a week. A question, that batch was fermented with safale 5. some folks have been warning against harvesting yeast from dry packets. What is the concensus on this?

 

[mtnagel]

Matt, you're making my brain hurt. LOL. I just wanted to dump jars in my wort , I'll look this over, but the measuring seems a little daunting to me. I guess I have more homework to do.........

LOL. The math isn't too bad once you do it awhile.

If you want to keep it simple, I'd say to make at least a 1L starter with what you and use that. If you can go bigger (up to 2L say), that's even better because it's better to over pitch then under pitch.

This sounds a lot easier than the washing process. I'll try it this way on my next batch,which will be ready in a week. A question, that batch was fermented with safale 5. some folks have been warning against harvesting yeast from dry packets. What is the concensus on this?

I have never done it, but I don't see why you couldn't. I think people maybe say why bother because dry yeast is cheap, but I would if I used dry yeast as it's easier than rehydrating a packet correct and why not take any cost savings you can get?

 

[nathan33]

I just saw the no wash stuff. I have yeast to harvest tonight so I want to clarify one thing. If I do the no wash. You make a slurry just like you do when you add water. Then do you still let it sit a little while for some trub to settle out?

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[TrustyOlJohnson]

I just saw the no wash stuff. I have yeast to harvest tonight so I want to clarify one thing. If I do the no wash. You make a slurry just like you do when you add water. Then do you still let it sit a little while for some trub to settle out?

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That wud be my biggest question. Removing trub. And what if I used a yeast for a porter that I then want to use for a pale ale? How is washing yeast detrimental to it? Ive been washing for a year and have been real happy with the results, but if I can do this better and easier I would...

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

This sounds a lot easier than the washing process. I'll try it this way on my next batch,which will be ready in a week. A question, that batch was fermented with safale 5. some folks have been warning against harvesting yeast from dry packets. What is the concensus on this?

FWIW, Im on my 6th generation of washed Nottingham yeast. And it workin great!

 

[fearwig]

To get a perfect pitch from slurry you need as consistent a result as possible so you can tune to the right pitch volume by trial and error. If your trub volume doesn't vary much, this means you're probably best to minimize the variables you introduce, and the effectiveness of yeast washing from batch to batch and the real concentration of cells that results makes for a big variable. All my experience with yeast washing--and there are those with more, I know--suggests that it amounts to overfussing with your slurry and likely making your pitch even more unpredictable. Another way to reinvent the wheel, that popular homebrewer pastime.

 

[fearwig]

I just saw the no wash stuff. I have yeast to harvest tonight so I want to clarify one thing. If I do the no wash. You make a slurry just like you do when you add water. Then do you still let it sit a little while for some trub to settle out?

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Maybe you are talking about something else, but the "no wash" methods I've seen and use just store the slurry as-is under beer or water. I've taken to leaving mine on beer, but either seems to work fine for months and months.

I've been doing that less than a year so I can't speak to a maximum shelf life.

I don't usually save from dark beers but the darkness of the yeast is 100% cosmetic, just don't use dark yeast on a super-pale beer. You should be pitching less than half a cake usually so you should be able to stock both a pale copy and dark copy of each if you insist.

 

[dobe12]

That wud be my biggest question. Removing trub. And what if I used a yeast for a porter that I then want to use for a pale ale? How is washing yeast detrimental to it? Ive been washing for a year and have been real happy with the results, but if I can do this better and easier I would...

Don't worry about the trub. That's factored into the calculator under "Non-yeast percentage". Pitching some trub into a new beer has no effect. Of course if I have a beer with lots of trub, I may not reuse that yeast just because it would be tough to get an accurate assessment of how much good slurry you have, but overall, there's no need to worry about trub. It's like trub and break material getting into your fermentor. Some people bend over backwards try to filter their wort, but it's really unnecessary. It won't hurt, but pouring it all in won't either. Same for harvested yeast. A little trub from one batch getting into the next isn't an issue.

And now, you don't need to rinse the yeast if just swirling some beer and pouring the slurry into jars. I guess you could try to let some trub settle and then pour off the yeast, but with the small amount of beer to swirl, I think you'd have trouble separating the trub and yeast. That's the reason for adding water with rinsing. To add volume, which in return gives the trub a place to settle before the yeast settles. But with no rinse, there isn't enough liquid to do this. But I'll say again, there is not reason to worry about trub from one beer getting into the next. I mean... was that trub detrimental to the beer it just came from? So why would it hurt the next beer?

 

[mtnagel]

I just saw the no wash stuff. I have yeast to harvest tonight so I want to clarify one thing. If I do the no wash. You make a slurry just like you do when you add water. Then do you still let it sit a little while for some trub to settle out?

Just scoop it out and put it in a sanitized container. Nothing more. Then when you reuse it, you just use what you need. You store it in the fridge, but I've never seen anything really settle. It never changed appearance. What you are pitching is yeast and everything else. You should account for the non-yeast material in your calculations.

That wud be my biggest question. Removing trub. And what if I used a yeast for a porter that I then want to use for a pale ale? How is washing yeast detrimental to it? Ive been washing for a year and have been real happy with the results, but if I can do this better and easier I would...

There is more of a chance of infection from handling it more and I've read the more neutral pH isn't as good as the more acidic pH of beer.

 

[dobe12]

Maybe you are talking about something else, but the "no wash" methods I've seen and use just store the slurry as-is under beer or water. I've taken to leaving mine on beer, but either seems to work fine for months and months.

I've been doing that less than a year so I can't speak to a maximum shelf life.

I don't usually save from dark beers but the darkness of the yeast is 100% cosmetic, just don't use dark yeast on a super-pale beer. You should be pitching less than half a cake usually so you should be able to stock both a pale copy and dark copy of each if you insist.

I agree. I pitched harvested yeast from a Dry Irish Stout which was a very dark brown, into a smash pale ale. If it effected the color at all, it was so minimal that I don't even notice. Maybe if I had the exact same beer and did a side to side comparison I'd see a difference, but I'm not noticing anything to the blind out.

 

[dobe12]

There is more of a chance of infection from handling it more and I've read the more neutral pH isn't as good as the more acidic pH of beer.

Again I agree. This is what I've read and talked to others about to. Something to do with the pH of the boiled water and how it's detrimental to the rinsed yeast. I'm just starting to get into water calculations and pH, so I'm no expert, but others who are have written and talked about this topic usually point to the pH as an issue with rinsing.

 

[dobe12]

FWIW, Im on my 6th generation of washed Nottingham yeast. And it workin great!

Yeast rinsing works too. I did it for 2 years. I did have a few jars that went bad over time, but on average, I was able to collect yeast, make new starter, repitch, and made good beer. I've just done a lot of reading on the topic over the last 6-8 months and my thinking has changed. I now believe no rinse to create a better environment for the yeast to be stored in.

 

[fearwig]

I agree. I pitched harvested yeast from a Dry Irish Stout which was a very dark brown, into a smash pale ale. If it effected the color at all, it was so minimal that I don't even notice. Maybe if I had the exact same beer and did a side to side comparison I'd see a difference, but I'm not noticing anything to the blind out.

Yeah, when I said "don't" I should have said "if you are worried about it, don't". I mean there are very few beers where you really demand absolute paleness and it may make no discernible difference even then.

 

[jwalker1140]

For those of you who are interested, these are the links that first convinced me to give the "no wash" approach a try.

The first post of this thread tells you exactly how to collect your slurry and how much to use. Plus, it's backed up with math and serious references, if that's important to you:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/why-not-pitch-your-yeast-cake-166221/

And the controlled experiments described in these blog posts debunked pretty much all of the assumptions I held about about the benefits of yeast washing:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

There is a better, easier way.

 

[sawbossFogg]

For those of you who are interested, these are the links that first convinced me to give the "no wash" approach a try.

The first post of this thread tells you exactly how to collect your slurry and how much to use. Plus, it's backed up with math and serious references, if that's important to you:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/why-not-pitch-your-yeast-cake-166221/

And the controlled experiments described in these blog posts debunked pretty much all of the assumptions I held about about the benefits of yeast washing:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

There is a better, easier way.

Thanks!

 

[dobe12]

For those of you who are interested, these are the links that first convinced me to give the "no wash" approach a try.

The first post of this thread tells you exactly how to collect your slurry and how much to use. Plus, it's backed up with math and serious references, if that's important to you:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/why-not-pitch-your-yeast-cake-166221/

And the controlled experiments described in these blog posts debunked pretty much all of the assumptions I held about about the benefits of yeast washing:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/yeast-washing-exposed.html
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

There is a better, easier way.

Great info, thanks for posting. I have to try and find the article I read about pH after rinsing/washing compared to storing under beer. The article didn't discuss yeast counts (like this article, amazing how much yeast you're washing away with rinsing), but focused more on the environment created when rinsing with boiled and cooled water. Long story short, it's not a healthy, happy place for the yeast.

 

[methusula110]

This post was started to demonstrate how to rinse yeast, and ends with why you shouldn't. What's a brewer to do

 

[dobe12]

This post was started to demonstrate how to rinse yeast, and ends with why you shouldn't. What's a brewer to do

Absorb it all and choose for yourself. 99/100 debates about brewing work like that. There's rarely a right and wrong way, but options A, B, C, & D.

Not sure if you clicked on those links to rinsing articles, but the fact that rinsing washes away something like 90% of the yeast... that's all I had to hear.

 

[methusula110]

Not sure if you clicked on those links to rinsing articles, but the fact that rinsing washes away something like 90% of the yeast... that's all I had to hear.

I did, and no rinse is so much easier as an added bonus. I've already rinsed one batch, I'll go "no" rinse on my next harvest and do a little personal research!!!! I love this hobby

 

[fearwig]

Today I told a coworker who just started his first kit IPA that he doesn't need an airlock or a carboy, that I brew 20-30 gal/mo and almost never use either. His jaw dropped. He saw the light. Same deal. You CAN use many tools and elaborate methods. You must use few.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

+1

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[methusula110]

After much reading, one thing i learned was not to harvest yeast form high gravity beers. I harvested wlp002 OG1.066 FG 1.010. Should I just throw this away?

 

[mtnagel]

I've heard up to 1.070 (and I'm sure there is some wiggle room around that). I'd keep it, but make sure you do a starter to make sure it wakes up. I bet it will be fine though.

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

I'll be doing my first yeast wash in about two weeks. I have been reading various threads and even BeerGeeks and others videos on YouTube. An idea came to me when decanting. Why not use one of those extra large syringes or meat injectors and just suck out what you want sucked out? A turkey baster might work, but it has a tendency to spit back. What say you?

 

[mtnagel]

That could work. Might be tedious sucking up depending on the volume of the syringe or baster.

I tried to go the opposite approach and separate the bottom layer from the top/yeast layer using a separatory funnel (see pic below). Seemed brilliant to me, but the larger particles of the bottom layer, most likely the break material, clogged the stopcock. Oh well, it was a good thought.

 

[fearwig]

I told my wife I was going to make a centrifuge that can handle quart jars using a wood frame and a two-stroke engine. Pretty sure it won't help my brewing any, but I'll be a hit on youtube when it explodes.