WY1318 Questions

[marjen]

I am looking for some feedback from people on their experience with WY1318. I have been using this strain as my goto strain pretty much since I started brewing back in March. I have used in for 15 five gallon batches of beer so far. I make NE IPAs using the BIAB method.

I have used several different fermenters so far. I started with carboys. I started looking for a better solution as I found this strain would consistently blow the top off the fermenter a make a mess nearly every time. I did however have pretty consistent beers when using these, though that may be do to other reasons as I will state below.

Next I tried 30L Spidels. Now these gave plenty of headspace, but I had constant issue trying to transfer out as the style of beers I am making have a lot of dry hop trub and I struggled even with a rotating racking arm to be able to get the beer out of the fermenters. I also did not like not being able to see what was happening. I never had a good batch in 4 attempts come out of these. The beer never seemed to clear and all 4 batches were so horrible they had to be dumped.

Finally I settled on the fermentasaurus. It gives me the headspace of the Speidel, its clear like the carboy and it allows me to dump trub and also pressurize for carbonating and transferring. It also has not been without issue. The end of the hose tends to get stuck right to the side of the fermenter ALL the time. pressure transfers take upwards of 50 minutes. I have tried troubleshooting with the company that makes them and while they are responsive I just get a response that no one else has my issues and they are not sure what is the cause. Out of the 5-6 batches I have made in the Fermentasaurus only one has been really good. 1-2 others were semi drinkable and the others were dumped.

I am adding an SS Brewtech 14 gallon Unitank to my arsenal this week. SO before I get to that point, I have some concerns and I am trying to narrow down the issues I have seen so far that have let to wildly inconsistent results.

The first 8-9 batches of beer I made were good-excellent. All were at the very least drinkable and on the better end, some of the best beers I have ever had. It almost was starting to feel too easy as by brew day 6,7,8 I was just banging out very good beer. Around this time a couple things happened:

1. June hit. Around this time the walkout basement I leave my fermenters in did start to warm up. However I will say it was still probably in the low to mid 60s through most of June.
2. I added a new 20 gallon kettle and pump for whirl pooling. So this replaced a 10 gallon kettle and just letting the beer sit for 30 mins at the end with an occasional stir. Neither of these should have let to quality issues, in fact a true whirlpool setup should have improved the hop aromas and flavors from the whirlpool stage.

Once I moved to this setup and June, July, August hit, I really started producing some truly horrible beer. Most were dumped. The taste was very in your face harsh, burning, the beer was very murky, (more so than usual NE IPA). I don't believe my issues are from the hot side of the equation. My brew days seem to go as planned most days. After maybe the first 1-2 batches with the new kettle, I was able to really start nailing my mash temps. Hitting same temps with very similar grain bills as all my good-excellent batches. SO I feel like the wort is getting to the fermenter as it should.

Now I also did have a couple batches where I feel the starter was off. The first time making a 10 gallon batch I mad a 1.5 L starter with 1 cup of extract which I think was too much. I then really screwed up next time and make a 1 L with 1 cup extract for a 5 gallon batch. So The first one I think maybe I did not have enough yeast, maybe they did not completely do their job and were left in the beer? The next one I think had way to much and possibly a similar issue? After this I have been back to 5 gallon batches and 1 L starter with anywhere from 100-112 grams of extract based on the age of the yeast smack pack. But the extremely harsh taste, and murkiness has continued.

Now I will say it does not appear to be an issue with it fermenting. I usually have an OG between 1.054 and 1.068. Every single batch has been down to 1.006 to 1.010 when transferred to keg. I have typically left the beer in the fermenter about 10-14 days during this bad stretch. I was getting beer 5-7 days in the spring. So I have tried extending the time a little bit to see if things clear up and the extra time has not been helping.

I have also noticed a few things. Sometimes the beer is completely clear on top. Other times it has like a film over it and never quite clears. As I move to a unitank and really will not be able to see whats going on, this troubles me. Has anyone else noticed this? When using the Speidels I peeked in a few times and it had ton of residue on top every time I used them. But lately whether clear or not, (could be left over hop matter?) the taste has just been really bad.

Now the prevailing thought at the moment and I am sure the first thing a lot of people will say is it is probably temp related. I have the ability to heat but not cool. When the room is in the mid to upper 60s I am sure the temp in the fermenter is low to mid 70s. Now WY1318 is rated from 64-74, so it should still be in or around the range at worst. Could this be an issue that would make the beer undrinkable? Has anyone else been fermenting around the upper end of the range for this strain but had good results? I am getting the FTS temp control system with the fermenter and will rig up a cooler with ice for now to assist with any needed cooling. I will look to get a glycol chiller in the spring before next summer hits. I just am not 100% sure this is why my beer has sucked.

I took about a 4 week break and of august thru most of sept from brewing to kind of reset mentally and to let things cool down. Of course we are having some crazy heat the last couple weeks and the basement is back up to mid-upper 60s as I have a batch in the fermenter right now. I have kept daily temp long this time around for the current batch to try and dissect any issue that might crop up. Below is the daily chart:

Day 0 - ferm pitch 70 room 65
Day 1 - ferm 64-68 room 63 (1-2” krausen)
Day 2 - ferm 61-64 room 63.5 (3-4” krausen)
Day 3 - ferm 63 room 61 (1-2" k)
Day 4 - ferm 66 room 62.5 (2-3" k) why the rise when it should be dropping?
Day 6 - ferm 69.2 room 68.1
Day 7 - ferm 69.5 room 68.2
Day 8 - ferm 68.5 room 65

Looking for some feedback on the temp range. It looks like it should be right in the sweet spot for this strain. Currently its got a little film on top but otherwise is pretty clear. I am thinking of transferring on day 10.

Sorry for the really long post, hopefully someone is still reading, lol. I just wanted to provide as much detail as possible to try and get some useful feedback to try and solve my issues and get back on track.

 

[Weezy]

Itd be very very helpful if you can describe how the beer is 'bad'. Google beer off flavors and compare that to what you remember it tasting like.

Low to mid 60s is ideal. But i wouldn't think you're temps would make a dumper. high temp could lead to some hot alcohol tastes which is qualify as bad tasting .

It seems like you're getting good attenuation so your hot side work sounds ok. Are hops working out?

How is your cleaning and sanitation regime?

 

[marjen]

Its hard to say exactly how it tastes. I would say putrid, burning, mouth and throat burn. Maybe vegetable like. But rotten.

I believe cleaning and sanitation are solid and i have been following the same procedures the whole time. I use PBW to clean all equipment and always sanitize everything on the cold side. fermenter, everything that touches it, keg, lines etc. I have noticed it tasting bad right out of fermenter doing sample when I take a gravity reading. So its nothing on the keg side. Its occurring sometime between when it enters and exits the fermenters.

Also as I forgot this earlier, I use RO water and add calcium and gypsum, so I don't think it could be water related. I have used this every batch I brew.

 

[thehaze]

Try to post a full recipe of one of those beers, which were harsh and you probably dumped. The whole process, actually with fermentation temps. and time.

From the things you wrote, it is not the yeast, although your thread title suggests otherwise.

I have used that yeast and fermented HOT, and it made great NEIPAs and will probably make good beers in general.

Harsh flavours in your beer, could be due to hops ( amount used in dry hopping, age, freshness or lack thereof ), mash pH, etc.

 

[Weezy]

burning/mouth/throat burn sounds like fusel alcohol from a hot ferment. Are you sure your wort temps are accurate on your list?

putrid sounds like contamination or dirty equipment.

how does the wort taste, before transfer to fermenter?

yes, post up recipes and water additions. the fermenting vessel isn't the problem.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The fact that so many people are having success with 1318 and you're conditions are not wildly out, suggests the problem is not with 1318 per se.

Its hard to say exactly how it tastes. I would say putrid, burning, mouth and throat burn. Maybe vegetable like. But rotten.

Putrid and rotten suggests sulphur from somewhere, and foreign microorganisms of some kind, possibly in conjunction with leaf hops decomposing.
Vegetal suggests leaf hops left too long in the wort.

Mouth and throat burn suggests an excess of some kind of small molecule - could be fusel alcohols from fermenting too hot, could be an excess of hop oils/debris, could be excess acid????!?

Temperature is obviously one thing to look at - air temperature is only a guide, you need to measure wort temperature, even if it's just dipping a cheap probe thermometer into the wort any time you're opening it up for dry hopping etc. The wort could be 5-10F higher than air temp at the peak of fermentation, but if your air temps are mid 60's then the yeast should be able to clean up after itself, so on the basis of what you've said it sounds like temperature is a bit of a concern but not the whole story.

I think it's the hopping that's going wrong for you. Are you using leaf or pellet hops? How long are you leaving them in for? Most of the interesting flavour compounds come out within 24 hours, so 48 hour dry hops are plenty of time. What schedule are you using?

And sanitation, sanitation, sanitation....

 

[marjen]

Can get more details later but below is one of the recipes i used.

10 lb row
1.5 lb white wheat
1.5 lb flaked oats
4 oz honey malt

mash at 152
RO water 2:1 calcium to gypsum

8.5 gallons into kettle
7.5 gallons pre boil.

.25 oz Columbus @60
.75 oz columbus @10
1 oz Mosaic, 1 oz Citra, 1 oz Ekuanot at flameout
1 oz Mosaic, 1 oz Citra, 1 oz Ekuanot at 170 degrees 30 min whirlpool.

6 gallons into Fermenter.
Move to keg on day 10
4oz Mosaic 1 oz Citra 1 oz Ekuanot 1 oz Columbus on Day 3 Dry hop

Process is BIAB. All hops are pellet. Use pretty much this recipe all the time with different hops. Have excellent beers from this multiple times and also had horrible beers from this. Have used some of these hops in good and bad beers. Same with grains. Hops are stored in freezer. Hard a few pounds of each. Been using since may/june. Grains were bought in July, stored in 5 gallons food grade buckets with those twist tops in coldest darkest room.

I measure temps from a temp controller that has a sensor I tape to fermenter and also has stick on thermometer.

 

[marjen]

burning/mouth/throat burn sounds like fusel alcohol from a hot ferment. Are you sure your wort temps are accurate on your list?

The temps in my list are actually for the current batch I am fermenting. I have not completed yet so not sure how it will come out. Past batches I do not have as detailed a list. I know temps in the fermenter were at least low 70s possibly higher at times.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Have you tried brewing a beer like a bitter, pale ale or blonde, something without the huge dry-hop?

Here's a good one to try with the 1318...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=83878&highlight=common+room

 

[marjen]

SO I just transferred my latest batch to keg. Its Day 9 since brew day. Beer had cleared on top yesterday. I had emptied most trub from fermenter over the last couple days through the dump valve. FG was 1.009. Thats usually where I end up with 1318. I did take a sample taste and I am still getting some of the off flavor I have been getting. Its always hard to tell when its warm and uncarbinated but there is that burn at the back of the both and just a general unpleasantness. I can't say for sure its bad, but not the best sample I have had.

If this does not come out good I am really at a loss here. I moved it to the keezer where it will get down to temp. I am hitting it with extra pressure to speed up carbonation (its set to 20 PSI). I will probably leave it there for 36 hours then drop it down to serving PSI. Tomorrow I will take another sample to see if I can get a better idea on the taste.

 

[marjen]

Here is my full recipe and all the notes I took through the process.

Galaxy far far away - #4
brewed 9/29/2017

Malts
10 lb 2-row
1.5 lb white wheat
1 lb Munich
1 lb flaked oats
4 oz honey malt

Yeast
WY1318

Starter
1 liter starter 1 day prior. 123 grams of muntons wheat extract. 54% viability for yeast based off date.

Boil
.25 oz Columbus @60
.75 oz Columbus @10
1 oz Mosaic, 1 oz Ekuanot, 1 oz Galaxy @0
1 oz Mosaic, 1 oz Ekuanot, 1 oz Columbus whirlpool @170

Fermentation
2 oz Galaxy at pitch
1.5 oz Galaxy, .75 oz Mosaic, .75 oz Ekuanot added Day 2 (54 hrs post pitch)
1.5 oz Galaxy, .75 oz Mosaic, .75 oz Ekuanot added Day 4 (1:45 PM)




NOTES
1. 2:1 gypsum / CAC2
2. 3 teaspoon detrose added
3. grains double crushed
4. 8.75 gallons into kettle
5. 8:33 flame on
6. 8:50 start mash
7. Strike temp 156
8. mash temp 150
9. Pre boil gravity 1.032
10. flame back on 9:57
11. 10:10 start boil
12. done at 12:25
13. 1.062 OG
14. First trub collection Day 3
15. Added heater day 3
16. Seems like Krusen is thicker from day 3-4? Not sure why.
17. Day 5-6 additional trub collections. Also just dumped additional trub into bucket not ball. Currently 5.25 gallons in the fermenter.
18. Day 6 and still not cleared on top.
19. Day 7 not cleared, close. But some brownish spots appearing on top. Need to monitor.
20. Day 8 pretty much clear but still a little cloudy on top.
21. Day 8 Added pressure kit and set to 10 PSI at Co2 tank. Its registering at 7 PSI on connected dial.
22. Reattached collection ball, will let fill one last time.
23. Transferred on Day 9
24. Took 22 minutes to transfer 4.5 gallons
25. FG is 1.009
26. ABV is 6.95%
27. 4.5 gallons into the keg
28. again slight off taste when sampling right after transfer.

Temps
Day 0 - fern pitch 70 room 65
Day 1 - ferm 64-68 room 63 (1-2” krausen)
Day 2 - ferm 61-64 room 63.5 (3-4” krausen)
Day 3 - ferm 63 room 61
Day 4 - ferm 66 room 62.5
Day 6 - ferm 69.2 room 68.1
Day 7 - ferm 69.5 room 68.2
Day 8 - ferm 68.5 room 65

 

[Chiefer]

Do you have any pictures. This might be an infection. Do you clean valves etc after every brew?

 

[Weezy]

Are you sure you're at FG after 9 days? Items 16-20 in your list are meaningless. How its clearing is no safe indication of where fermentation is at. Watching the yeast work is entertainment only. You need to monitor for FG via direct measurement and see a steady SG for 3 days before racking, until you're very familiar with how a given yeast strain behaves.

Why are you adding a heater?

Please don't take this the wrong way, i don't mean any disrespect, but this happens often around here. Brewers post about every batch being bad, having difficulty explaning what is bad about them, All the while confident that their brewing process is error free. Off flavors mean there's a problem, and it's usually sanitation or fermentation temp and maybe yeast health. A couple of general recommendations: (1) take some of your beer to a local brew club and get input from those guys, (2) try brewing a very simple 5% abv beer and see if that is still bad. Say 100% base malt of your choosing and just 25-30 ibus at 60 min of any hop you choose. Maybe try a smaller batch that you can better control temps in a water/ice bath as well. Leave it in the fermenter for 2 weeks. Do that and report back on that one.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[marjen]

Why are you adding a heater?

I usually want to ramp up the temp slowly. There were a couple colder days around 3-4 and the temp was dropping below where it should be so I added the heater pad with temp controller to keep temp above 66.

I do think I am going to take a sample to my local brew store. They have been around for like 20 years and also run a brewery, I figure they should be able to assist. Though the seem very stuck in the old ways of home brewing as they recommend to every single person they use a secondary and ferment for at least 4 weeks regardless of yeast and style.

As for sanitation, everything on the cold side gets star san. The bucket I transfer the wort with is filled and sprayed with star san, the fermenter is filled with a couple gallons of star san and rotated around, all fittings are soaked in star san. I really dont see how I could be missing anything in that step.

As for knowing if its done. Peak fermentation ended around day 3. After that it fell. I have used this yeast a ton as have others and the consensus seems t be it is usually done in 4-5 days. I dont have the ability to do multiple gravity readings with my current set up. Pretty much every batch, good or bad with 1318 has finished between 1.008 and 1.012. This fell on the lower end. Even if it had a couple days left, wouldn't it end up ok after a few days in the keg?

 

[Morrey]

I apologize if I have overlooked this question tucked somewhere in the thread as I may have overlooked it. But I did see you mention collecting trub.

Is the yeast you seem to having trouble with isolated to harvested yeast? Or are you starting with fresh yeast and building a starter and continuing to have these same problems?

 

[Weezy]

The bulk of fermentation is always done in the first few days with most yeasts, butt the yeast need time to finish up and clean up after themselves. Difference strains react differently to temp fluctuations. Some are quite willing to kick off phenolics if they're not allowed to finish their meal on their own terms. others are quite tolerant.

I don't understand how sampling is impossible. You can always use a thief from the top.

The point is, even if there is consensus, you're having a problem. Monitoring SG and letting the yeast sit for 2-3 weeks is a VERY easy way to take that potential problem off the table of all of your potential problems.

Are you taking the fermenter apart between batches and cleaning the parts? You're aware starsan can't penetrate micro cracks in plastic and rubber where bacteria can and will hide. A good test you could do would be to clean your best and ferment a batch with minimal hops and let it sit in the fermenter for a couple months and see if a pellicle forms.

Note that I'm still hanging my hat on the fact that you said that the beer is tasting bad right out of the fermenter. I'm assuming everything downstream of the fermenter is moot at this point.

 

[Morrey]

This may draw nay-sayer negative reviews, but I have great success using Tilt floating hydrometers. Not so much that I take the readings to the bank as an exact number, but it definitely shows how your beer is trending.

Reading the SG on a cell phone app is very simple and wastes no time or wort. Once I see SG becoming semi-stable, I then draw actual samples to confirm the readings.

Next time you have a few spare coins in your pocket to spend on brew gear, this is a handy device that I use each and every brew day...in fact I have two of them in use right now. Something to consider.

 

[marjen]

Is the yeast you seem to having trouble with isolated to harvested yeast? Or are you starting with fresh yeast and building a starter and continuing to have these same problems?

Always starting with new yeast. I have not yet started trying to use collected yeast.

I don't understand how sampling is impossible. You can always use a thief from the top.

The point is, even if there is consensus, you're having a problem. Monitoring SG and letting the yeast sit for 2-3 weeks is a VERY easy way to take that potential problem off the table of all of your potential problems.

I just don't have an easy way to take readings with my current equipment. I will try and figure something out. Also I have not really wanted it to sit on trub extra long as it also contains a lot of hops. I did have a couple batches I stretched out to over 2 weeks with similar results. The issue is also across multiple fermenters even when they were new so I can't believe all 4 fermenters would have infections from bad sanitation when i had no such occurrences with same procedures earlier in the year.

I am thinking of doing a slightly simpler batch with my carboy and old kettle just for the hell of it to see what happens.

Could it possibly be bad grains? All of these bad batches I used 2-row I purchased in a group buy. All other batches had 2-row I purchased from my local brew supply store. But there was one good batch mixed in with the group buy 2-row and I have not heard anyone else complain of any issues. And this is what is frustrating, in the middle of all the bad batches was a very good one in the middle of July. I used all same batches of ingredients, same process, same equipment and dealt with same temperatures. Nothing about the brew day or the fermentation process seemed different.

 

[Morrey]

One thing I'd definitely do is make a batch with ALL fresh malts, hops and yeast that I bought specifically for this particular batch. This would eliminate any thoughts of low quality ingredients and then isolate the issues to equipment and process.

 

[marjen]

SO I am reviewing all my past brew day notes. One thing I forgot about, 3 times I did a 10 gallon split batch. SO I boiled 10 gallons in the kettle and then split the wort into 2 fermenters. In all of these cases the beer in BOTH fermenters did not taste right. This now is leading me to believe it is not related to fermenting process. As it would not make sense that both batches would have same exact issues if it was related to the fermentation process. I think it also eliminates sanitation as I used different combos of fermenters including regular carboys which I never prior had a single issue with. Basically every single batch prior to getting my new kettle came out good and all but one since has been bad. Not sure if this helps narrow things down, but I am looking at everything.

Edit: I also confirmed the very first batch with the 2-row from the new source was the same first 10 gallon batch made in the new kettle. So new kettle and new grains from a different source. Not sure either of these are related to the cause but, its something to consider.

 

[Weezy]

I just don't have an easy way to take readings with my current equipment. I will try and figure something out.

This, again, doesn't make sense. Its becoming apparent that you were using the visual look of the fermenter to judge doneness.

Also I have not really wanted it to sit on trub extra long as it also contains a lot of hops. I did have a couple batches I stretched out to over 2 weeks with similar results. The issue is also across multiple fermenters even when they were new so I can't believe all 4 fermenters would have infections from bad sanitation when i had no such occurrences with same procedures earlier in the year.

This is EXACTLY how infections work. Didn't have problems early on and the bacteria builds up.

I am thinking of doing a slightly simpler batch with my carboy and old kettle just for the hell of it to see what happens.

Good idea. Old kettle doesn't matter. Kettle doesn't matter. Its all going to be sanitized from heat. Try a glass carboy if you have one and clean it with 10% bleach solution. Let solution sit for a couple days in it. Rinse very very well with water several times then starsan solution. Use bought drinking water to make the beer with no salt additions. Use new rubbing, starsan rinsed, to transfer to fermenter. Keep it chilled to low - mid sixties in a water bath and don't touch it for two weeks. Use a thief to get a taste sample then.

Could it possibly be bad grains?

NOOOOOOO!

 

[marjen]

So if its sanitation we are saying I somehow infected all 4 of my fermenters at the exact same time, 3 of which were band new, which means i infected the very first batches and one of which had nothing but good to excellent beers in it prior to the beginning of this problem?

 

[Upthewazzu]

Have you tried a different yeast? Maybe you just don't like 1318 as much as you think you do...

Sanitation is, IMO, overblown as the cause of so many problems described on HBT. Not to say it isn't important, but there are so many other factors to consider.

 

[Weezy]

I give up. Good luck to you. I hope you figure it out.

 

[marjen]

Have you tried a different yeast? Maybe you just don't like 1318 as much as you think you do...

I tried Imperial A20 and A24 this summer. Had same issues. I tried 007 and WY098 when I first started but all the good beers I have made have been with WY1318. I really kept thinking this was temp related until this newest batch where I feel temps are in the range of normal to ideal for the yeast.

I give up. Good luck to you. I hope you figure it out.

Look I appreciate the help, its just when looking at this I really struggle to see how sanitation is the cause of all my issues. Especially with fermenters that were brand new soaked in PBW and soaked in star san. Then followed same procedures as I did prior to my issues. At the moment the only 2 constants that have been in play for every bad batch is 1. The new kettle and 2. The batch of 2-row I was using.

Maybe there is a massive infection that has just killed all my equipment? Can that happen? Another possibility is my flasks used to make the starters, maybe they have an infection? And then transfer that to each batch? They look clean but who knows.

 

[Upthewazzu]

I tried Imperial A20 and A24 this summer. Had same issues. I tried 007 and WY098 when I first started but all the good beers I have made have been with WY1318. I really kept thinking this was temp related until this newest batch where I feel temps are in the range of normal to ideal for the yeast.

You mentioned in a past post that you packaged on day 9 (or something like that). Have you tried letting the fermentation go longer, like 14 days?

 

[logdrum]

How are you chilling the wort pre fermenter?

 

[dyqik]

IME, hop pellet dust in suspension gives a burning, astringent taste until it drops out. Do a recipe without a dry hop and see if the taste is still there if you really want to be sure.

This yeast is definitely done with an O.G. of 1.052 in under four days, including clean up, but that's using a 66-72F ramp over four days. My samples dropped to 1.016 at 3 days and 1.010 at 4 days, with refractometer, and confirmed at 1.010 with a hydrometer when kegging on day 6.

That beer recipe:
10lb Rahr pale
1 lb flaked oats
4 oz honey malt

2.5ml hopshot at 60 mins
whirlpool 2oz cascade leaf
dry hop 2oz cascade leaf at 18 hours after fermentation takes off
dry hop 2oz cascade pellets in keg

Right now that beer is carbing with 2oz of cascade pellets in a mesh container in the keg. It's partially carbonated after 3 days, and has an astringent burn to it that exactly like other early samples of dry hopped beers I've brewed before the dry hop dust settles out. After 7 days in the keg or so, and a few half pint samples pulled from the bottom of the keg, they've come around fine.


Your kettle may matter if there is some machining/production residue e.g. in the ball-valve. But I'd expect that to be fading over time.

In my experience of using up group buy grains over three years, old grain mainly leads to small loss of efficiency and slower conversion, not a taste effect.

 

[lolcats]

How about oxidation? Maybe your palate has changed and you are now picking up what you thought was fine before?

NE IPAs are very sensitive to oxidation. Do you cold crash? How do you transfer to the keg? Basically, the NE IPAs should never see oxygen AT ALL! But you probably already know this

 

[marjen]

How are you chilling the wort pre fermenter?

I have an immersion chiller I use in the kettle. Maybe this is a source of infection? Its been used in every single batch. I usually rinse it out after using, then soak in the kettle. I also insert it into the boiling wort for 15 mins to sanitize so I am not sure this could be the issue but maybe.

How about oxidation? Maybe your palate has changed and you are now picking up what you thought was fine before?

Its definitely not a palette issue. I do a closed transfer. I also tastes this right after transferring so no real time for oxidation to set in.

In my experience of using up group buy grains over three years, old grain mainly leads to small loss of efficiency and slower conversion, not a taste effect.

Goo to know.

 

[logdrum]

I have an immersion chiller I use in the kettle. Maybe this is a source of infection? Its been used in every single batch. I usually rinse it out after using, then soak in the kettle. I also insert it into the boiling wort for 15 mins to sanitize so I am not sure this could be the issue but maybe.

I was thinking plate chiller w debris stuck in it. Doubtful an IC is the source.

 

[leesmith]

Foam stopper in starter flask?
Stirbar?
The only infection I’ve ever gotten was in a starter I made. I use Brett in some beers and I think I didn’t sterilize the stir bar good. Fortunately I caught the infection before pitching the yeast which was 1318.
Marjen are you in CT by the way?

 

[marjen]

Foam stopper in starter flask?
Stirbar?

I use tin foil over the stopper and always spray it with star-san. I also dunk the stirbar in the flask when its filled with star-san.

Yep, I am in CT.

 

[leesmith]

I don’t trust PBW and Starsan to do the job anymore.
I have made a practice of giving a hot 160 degree bath for a half hour of parts that I’m concerned about such as my stir bar. From my limited research this temp is below temps that some plastics can’t handle but high enough to kill yeast or lacto.
I don’t use a foam stopper because they just seem like a playground for things to hide in.

You said there was a film on the top of the beer sometimes...a pellicle forming? Brett infection?

Sterilize your starter equipment. This may be it.

I think I know the LHBS you are referring to. I agree.

 

[marjen]

I think I know the LHBS you are referring to. I agree

Yeah, I think I am still going to stop in there anyway and bring a sample to see if they can at least help identify the taste. Part of me thinks at this point it might be hop matter. It seems to fit some of the descriptions I am reading. But I would expect it to drop out after hitting the keg and keezer.

 

[leesmith]

Hop burn or infection they should be able to differentiate for you.

I’m in Bethel and if you ever need a second opinion I’m happy to help out.

Good luck figuring it out. Please let us know.

 

[dyqik]

You said there was a film on the top of the beer sometimes...a pellicle forming? Brett infection?

With these beers, it could just be hop oils in a slick, or something from the flaked grains, I think.

But yeah, infection should be easily distinguishable from hop burn. And should also eventually give you a too low FG.

 

[hezagenius]

I've had that hop burn stick around for a few weeks while the keg is in the fridge. Have you experienced that burn after several weeks in a keg? I get that burn with all my NEIPAs so I just let the keg carb up at serving pressure over 2 weeks and by then, it's pretty much faded away.

 

[marjen]

I’m in Bethel and if you ever need a second opinion I’m happy to help out.

I may take you up on that some time if I continue to struggle. Might be good to have an experienced brewer watch my process and help identify any potential issues. I am close by in Oxford.

 

[marjen]

I've had that hop burn stick around for a few weeks while the keg is in the fridge.

Is it a really nasty burn in the back of the mouth that gets worse once you swallow the beer? And sticks around for a long time with a crappy taste? For all the hops I used I really am getting no real citrus aroma or taste. Its just really dull and blah.