Trying to figure out why my beers haze during fermentation and don't clear during crash

[sleev-les]

I'm kind of stuck as I can't figure out why now I can't get my beers to clear during a cold crash. I have brewed 2 beers that stayed hazy that previously have been very clear. Now the changes:

Originally brewed and clear:

Grainfather
LHBS milled the grain (unsure of gap)
1 Whirlfloc tab at 10 minutes left in boil
just using a blow off cane/line into a starsan mix

How I'm brewing now:

Spike Solo 20G
2 whirlfloc tabs 10 minutes left in boil
mill own grain at .035 to .040 gap
Spike PRV and 5 to 7psi pressure

The 2 beers that are now coming out hazy are 2 beers that I have brewed repeatedly when I had the GF and both very clear. A Kolsch and an Oktoberfest. All same ingredients aside from scaling up from a 6 to 11 gallon batch. I notice that the wort is clear going into the fermenter, but during fermentation they haze and it does not clear, even with cold crash. I can't say it is chill haze since its doing it at ferm temps. I crash at 35/36 degrees. Any ideas what this could be? Maybe doing something wrong via pressure fermenting or is that a possible cause? They both came out tasting great, but curious why they are doing this now.

 

[MaxStout]

Maybe polyphenols? Malt and some low-alpha hops can contribute excesses of that, which don't precipitate out. Does the beer have some astringency?

 

[sleev-les]

Maybe polyphenols? Malt and some low-alpha hops can contribute excesses of that, which don't precipitate out. Does the beer have some astringency?

I do not notice any astringency. The part that triggered my curiosity is that both of these recipe's have been done multiple times prior when I used my 5 gallon system. The only real big change was pressure during the fermentation process. Same grain bills, same hops, same yeasts, just larger batch and PRV.

 

[rburrelli]

EXACTLY the same malt? Same batch?

 

[sleev-les]

EXACTLY the same malt?

Yes. Exact malt just scaled up in quantity for the larger batch size.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Have you changed your process with adding or removing steps in your mash?

 

[sleev-les]

Have you changed your process with adding or removing steps in your mash?

No. Single step mash. Only difference I can pick out in mash is the GF recirc tube was below the liquid surface. The Spike system recirc arm is above the liquid.

 

[sleev-les]

One thing I didn't think about, but maybe the cause? I do starters using Proper Starter. At 5 gallons, it would be only 1 can of proper starter. I'm using 2 more more (yes, I am doing it the cheating way). Could the proper starter wort be a culprit being the quantity has increase by at least double? That is the only big shift.

Next brew I'm going to do my starter a week in advance and then chill it. Decant the morning I need it and use as little of the proper wort as possible, just utilizing the yeast.

 

[jerrylotto]

Do a starch test (iodine) on your wort after the mash. If you have full conversion, there should be no black residue. Scale may be affecting your conversion efficiency.

 

[micraftbeer]

I noticed some haze when pressure fermenting. I'll go see if I can find pictures from when I compared a batch I did with/without pressure.

 

[sleev-les]

Do a starch test (iodine) on your wort after the mash. If you have full conversion, there should be no black residue. Scale may be affecting your conversion efficiency.

Thanks. Will do that next brew. I guess if that happens to be the case, I have to do a longer mash?

 

[sleev-les]

I noticed some haze when pressure fermenting. I'll go see if I can find pictures from when I compared a batch I did with/without pressure.

That is another test. Going to get a blow off cane with TC so I can put a valve on it and shut when done so I can still do my closed transfer via PRV without removing the blowoff and introducing oxygen.

 

[Bassman2003]

Since you changed systems it could be that you are getting less conversion with the new system. Take refractometer readings through the mash and do not move to the next step until you meet a target. A good general rule of thumb is 90% of expected preboil gravity in your beta rest.

Make sure the thermometer is accurate as well. pH? It might be that you just need some more time on the new system to get the best out of it.

 

[jerrylotto]

Thanks. Will do that next brew. I guess if that happens to be the case, I have to do a longer mash?

and check that your mash temperature is relatively uniform.

 

[micraftbeer]

I noticed some haze when pressure fermenting. I'll go see if I can find pictures from when I compared a batch I did with/without pressure.

My memory has this phenomenna occurring with pressure fermentation when I did split batches with & without pressure. The only picture I could find is the below. Which doesn't show a massive difference, but the pressure fermented beer had a bit more haze and such it glowed a bit more as light passed through it, which makes it look lighter in the picture below.

I don't worry about clear beer and don't use any finings at fermentation end (just Irish moss in boil kettle), so for me, this was just a minor observation, not a problem.

Also, reading my labels on the glasses below, one thing to note in the comparison was the pressure fermented was fermented at higher temperature. So even though all the variables of batch variation in mash & boil are removed, it's a difference of pressure & temperature. I never had a reason to ferment a split batch at same temperature with/without pressure.

 

[sleev-les]

Since you changed systems it could be that you are getting less conversion with the new system. Take refractometer readings through the mash and do not move to the next step until you meet a target. A good general rule of thumb is 90% of expected preboil gravity in your beta rest.

Make sure the thermometer is accurate as well. pH? It might be that you just need some more time on the new system to get the best out of it.

Unsure of PH. Using spring water so it’s most likely 7. Water hasn’t changed from what I have used. You really have me curious about the conversion and now I’m ready to brew again to see if that’s it. Thermometer is accurate. Test with multiple. The info you guys are giving me is more than helpful. I’d never think about some of this. Plus I haven’t brewed much on my Solo. Since I had my son I have 6 brews over a year and a half on it.

 

[sleev-les]

My memory has this phenomenna occurring with pressure fermentation when I did split batches with & without pressure. The only picture I could find is the below. Which doesn't show a massive difference, but the pressure fermented beer had a bit more haze and such it glowed a bit more as light passed through it, which makes it look lighter in the picture below.

I don't worry about clear beer and don't use any finings at fermentation end (just Irish moss in boil kettle), so for me, this was just a minor observation, not a problem.

Also, reading my labels on the glasses below, one thing to note in the comparison was the pressure fermented was fermented at higher temperature. So even though all the variables of batch variation in mash & boil are removed, it's a difference of pressure & temperature. I never had a reason to ferment a split batch at same temperature with/without pressure.

View attachment 840540

What your picture shows is what I end up with. My pic below is how it goes into the fermenter.