Why did my brew taste bad the first day in a bottle?

[Dawai]

I am trying to figure this out, my wheat beer, followed a trick I used on a all barley grain beer, during the secondary ferment I added a simple-sugar brown sugar and more yeast.

It tasted good, hoppy, then a week later I force kegged it heavy (100psi) 48hrs, then bottled it, we (my wife and I) both tasted it, sickly sweet, nasty, not even like beer. I was going to dump it all.

Then today (next day) I was pouring it out saving the bottles, I tasted one, there in the bottom of the bottle is a yeast ring, flavor is bitter-hoppy, not absolutely great, but very drinkable. Better than store bought swill for sure.

What happened? was it the yeast? or?? Also even thou I cleaned the carboy, made with spring water, used irish moss, it is still murky cloudy.

(alcohol abuse, pouring 18 out)

 

[rgarry]

I don't think this is likely but if the yeast was very active, they could have chewed up the sugar and thus the change. Some strains can work very quickly (turbo yeast) but I don't buy it. Maybe it was mixed well.

 

[duboman]

Not sure I quite follow but here is my take...........

What you kegged so heavily wound up with major carbonic bite from all the CO2 that was probably not even absorbed by the beer yet.

The yeast ring in the bottle is a result of bottle conditioning and any beer that is bottled will have this as there is always yeast in suspension that settles in the bottle.

As for the overall taste it sounds as though this is just a really young beer that is just not quite ready yet and all of this is a guess because your post is a little confusing in process

 

[duboman]

Not sure I quite follow but here is my take...........

What you kegged so heavily wound up with major carbonic bite from all the CO2 that was probably not even absorbed by the beer yet.

The yeast ring in the bottle is a result of bottle conditioning and any beer that is bottled will have this as there is always yeast in suspension that settles in the bottle.

As for the overall taste it sounds as though this is just a really young beer that is just not quite ready yet and all of this is a guess because your post is a little confusing in process

Edit: Sorry double post...............

 

[bacchusmj]

Im still trying to figure out why you added sugar and yeast to the secondary? If your goal is finished beer, the adding of the sugar would have kinda started the whole process over and the cloudiness is simply yeast that is doing its job to eat the new sugars you added late.

 

[Dawai]

more sugar, more yeast on the second ferment was the way I used to do wine, it upped the alcohol content by "doubling" the food for the yeast. The last batch was about 4%, very mellow.

Yes, very active yeast, This one I harvested it from another beer and washed, and talked to it, and bottled it, and have more than I started with. At first it acted like the "blob" came out of the jar after me.

I'm still learning, tried to bring some "things over from wine fermentation" I guess.

I'll leave it alone for a week to see if any more changes occur.

 

[kh54s10]

How long has the beer been in the bottles. With the added sugar and yeast I would leave these alone at 70 degrees for 3 weeks. (normal bottle conditioning) As far as the kegged beer. 100 psi is huge. I would have released the pressure and waited at least a few days.

 

[billpaustin]

My normal is 20psi for 24 or more hours.

I'm confused (beginner), but why are you trying to pump it up with 100psi, and then also feed it sugar and more yeast?

Seems like one or the other would be enough.

 

[amandabab]

more sugar, more yeast on the second ferment was the way I used to do wine, it upped the alcohol content by "doubling" the food for the yeast. The last batch was about 4%, very mellow.

Yes, very active yeast, This one I harvested it from another beer and washed, and talked to it, and bottled it, and have more than I started with. At first it acted like the "blob" came out of the jar after me.

I'm still learning, tried to bring some "things over from wine fermentation" I guess.

I'll leave it alone for a week to see if any more changes occur.

Also coming from a wine background, its hard at first to wrap your head around the fact that "Beer aint Wine"
Wine is a simple recipe that requires almost constant futzing with early on, Beer is a complicated recipe that is best left alone.

Don't poke the beer.

 

[kh54s10]

Also coming from a wine background, its hard at first to wrap your head around the fact that "Beer aint Wine"
Wine is a simple recipe that requires almost constant futzing with early on, Beer is a complicated recipe that is best left alone.

Don't poke the beer.

I have done only one wine but by the directions, mix and pitch the yeast, Wait, degass at some point and secondary, Wait, bottle. wait. Not too much futzing with it.

The initial part is easier. Just mix the ingredients, pitch the yeast and seal it up.

The OP has made things way more difficult than it really is. And probably did ruin his beer.

 

[Dawai]

I think I need to let the beer rest. I'd say right now I got a mouth full of yeast, even thou it secondary fermented for a week, had quit gassing and SG was stable.

The heavy carbonating was for bottling, some is lost. It got released and I dispensed it into the bottles at 2psi. (I read that somewhere)

I guess I need to quit hurrying.

I need another 6.5 gallon jug, picked up two 15 gallon barrels last night to haul spring water. This is a new thing to learn for me. Fun and pays off in more fun.
You have to decipher what others say, pick out what works. (why I am here)

 

[Hang Glider]

@Dawai

http://www.howtobrew.com/

Somewhat dated, but free, and good advice.
Beer is not wine.

Make your beer according to your recipe, then leave it alone (temperature control is a good idea). After 3 weeks (or longer), or when your hydrometer says it's ready, or whatever works for you, bottle with priming sugar, and it will carbonate itself.


welcome to brewing!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

1. You package the beer when the SG stops falling, not when the calendar says to.

2. If you add fermentable sugar, you raise the SG and kick off fermentation return to step 1.

It is common to add fermentables late in fermentation, after the yeast has chewed through the maltose. Maltose is a more conplex sugar than most of the sugars that are added to boost alchhol content. If you add the simple sugars early, the yeast will first consume them and are less likely to fully process the Maltose. Kinda like Mom telling the kids to eat their veggies before they get Ice Cream.

 

[Dawai]

I've drank three of these now, the alcohol is so high it has a tang to it.

(block and tackle, walk a block and tackle anything, was that Merle Haggard or??)

NOT tasty still but better than store bought.

Waiting on my grain mill to be delivered so I can bust some barley malt and brew the next load of all grain Pilsner.

 

[Gameface]

I think you're headed in the general right direction, but this batch is going to be interesting for sure.

 

[boydster]

You have GOT to give it more time in the bottles. Seriously. You're rushing it by tasting so many bottles in so short of a time. You just bottled this a couple days ago, right? 3 weeks @ 70F minimum. Anything else is a waste of your beer. The alcohol warmth will mellow out with time, and it may very well need more than 3 weeks to accomplish that. My advice: put this beer someplace where it will be at room temperature and LOST to you for somewhere between a month and 6 weeks. Brew another beer in the meantime to keep your mind off it. Then brew another nother beer. Give it time to come into its own, then crack a bottle and pass judgement, for better or worse.

 

[billpaustin]

That "tang" is probably because the beer hasn't aged enough. Over the time of a few weeks, the beer will change, and you have to wait for that to really rate it.

Same thing in a keg. I did a wheat beer with LME, and boiled it all through. When I kegged it, it had a huge bite and tasted chemical, or like burnt rubber. "Not drinkable", I said. But two weeks later, it had mellowed out, and ended up being pretty good.

 

[Dawai]

You have GOT to give it more time in the bottles. Seriously. You're rushing it by tasting so many bottles in so short of a time. You just bottled this a couple days ago, right? 3 weeks @ 70F minimum. Anything else is a waste of your beer. The alcohol warmth will mellow out with time, and it may very well need more than 3 weeks to accomplish that. My advice: put this beer someplace where it will be at room temperature and LOST to you for somewhere between a month and 6 weeks. Brew another beer in the meantime to keep your mind off it. Then brew another nother beer. Give it time to come into its own, then crack a bottle and pass judgement, for better or worse.

Yes, last night I moved a stout beer from the carboy to a clean HDPE barrel (5 gallon bucket was too full) to continue it's journey developing (still has suspended solids in it). I tasted it too, I am chaffing at the bit to brew some more of the Pilsner I loved, it, came into age about a month, at first it was embarrassingly low alcohol. The last few bottles were near at the 6% level. (so I am reading good advice)

So, I am learning. I am anxious, and eager, and OCD.
Perhaps I will work on the equipment some more to stay busy. I made a wort chiller yesterday, and plumbed it in. I got a real "ugly" but functional PID box, and my forte is electrical. I need a bung welded into the kettle also for a temp thermowell, the top mount is not getting it. (that means pulling all that itchy insulation back out.)

 

[Mark_]

Also coming from a wine background, its hard at first to wrap your head around the fact that "Beer aint Wine"

Don't poke the beer.

+1

Trust me on this, forget how to make wine as a beer noob

 

[kh54s10]

I've drank three of these now, the alcohol is so high it has a tang to it.

(block and tackle, walk a block and tackle anything, was that Merle Haggard or??)

NOT tasty still but better than store bought.

Waiting on my grain mill to be delivered so I can bust some barley malt and brew the next load of all grain Pilsner.

Are you going to try to make a Lager out of this? If so research making lagers very thoroughly. They are far more complicated than making an ale.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

Waiting can be hard. What I did in the beginning is brew a batch, and while it is sitting in the fermenter, purchase a case of your favorite beer in reusable bottles. Tell yourself you are gathering bottles. When the batch has been in primary 4 weeks, bottle it , brew another batch and buy another case. Forget the first bottled batch for at least 4 weeks. Taste it, note your impressions ( color, head, flavor, etc) noe how the flavors develop as time goes by. The best defense against murdering child beers is understanding, and a solid pipeline.

 

[Dawai]

2nd Wheat beer, It's much better now, we just opened a couple. Sitting in the extra room out of sight. I kegged the Dark Prinz (3rd brew) and we have been sipping it, it too is getting better with some age. It is the first Dark beer I liked. I may have to order some more while it is on sale.

THE all grain (4th) brew I did last Saturday, right now, tasting it, bad.. I'm going to have to rework that recipe to match the first one. Two cooker heating elements.. the first real slow to heat, the second revvs up like a race car. THE slow element brew actually tasted better. (that'd involve a SSR with current control rheostat) Or one of them oldschool triac-diac-heatsink combinations I got in reserve old replacement parts. On them thou the heat sink is "HOT" and will knock the heck out of you if you are not paying attention..

My wife suggested we go get some more "store bought" for a week or two. I guess she is right, I'll never get ahead enough to let it mature properly.

I'm just too impatient.. I learned to ride a motorcycle at 100mph too.. got plenty of scars.

 

[Hang Glider]

... THE all grain (4th) brew I did last Saturday, right now, tasting it, bad.. I'm just too impatient.. .

like on the 8th???
OMG - impatient is an understatement !!!

I brewed on the 17th of May and haven't touched that one yet. Still in the fermenter.

 

[Dawai]

I bought some more fermenters.. 10 gallon batches? Will that fix or compound the problem?

We are talking about putting in a "Choke", power drinker keg from a commercial supplier. My perlick taps will be here today on UPS. I think that tap will be labeled "power drinking swill".

Now that I've built a keezer, I'll need a lift. (help me, my keg has fallen down the stairs and it can't get into the keezer)

Janis Joplin said it, (if you got it today, you don't wear it tomorrow, cause we know tomorrow may never come) My add to that? Especially for "some of us".

In the 70s, I took Martial arts for a short while, the Korean instructor hit me in the back of the head with a split bamboo pole, he hollered at me.. "YOU, too fast you go"
I was riding a Honda with a built engine during that time, he just had no real idea. NOW, it's a big old Ex Ga State troopers bike, weighs about a half ton, shuts off at 100mph, when a buddies Buell on nitrous will still stand up on the rear wheel. I've watched him go fast, and I ain't these days..

I sure like the flavor of the "aged beer" I brew.. too bad most of it never actually gets aged properly. Perhaps I need a rental shed to rotate it in? Bank vault? I know better to trust any of my buddies with beer.

 

[HokieHomeBrewer]

This guy is either a troll or on meth.

 

[boydster]

I just saw the post about the beer going from "embarrassingly low alcohol" to 6% while in bottles. That should never happen... The gain in abv from yeast fermenting the priming sugar is negligible and you risk bottle bombs if you are bottling before fermentation is complete and letting it finish in bottles. You are lucky if you haven't had one or more explode already.

That's assuming this isn't a troll thread. Here's hoping

 

[Dawai]

No meth, I'm not a troll.. I treat everyone with the respect they are due, till I am badgered or attacked and taught to think otherwise about them. I've been online since the "dial up BBS system" was prior to the internet web. Machinist hobby, metal shaping hobby, Hotrod and old car, bikes, robotics, electronics, instrumentation.

I am working on my keezer today, waiting on them taps on the UPS truck.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/keezer-no-collar-build-ga-hillbilly-417689/

Hyper does not describe me at times. I am getting to the point in my life where I do need a nap each day thou. I'm enjoying learning a new hobby.. about hip deep into Homebrewing. My wife and I both enjoy it so far.

My granny ran a "tavern" on Rossville Blvd (Next to Chattanooga Tn) till she retired in the 70s.. I "ran" around in there till about "dark" when things got a lil bit too rough for a child to be in there. Grampa had a double barrel shotgun fixed under the counter pointing at the doors of the place going out to the main street (next to the register).. I can only imagine it did get a lil bit rough at times.

 

[woozy]

You have to decipher what others say, pick out what works.

No. You do not have to *decipher* anything. You have to *listen* to what people tell you.

And they are telling you:

You... must... let... beer... bottle... for... three... weeks.

and that means

You... must... let... beer... bottle... for... three... weeks.

It does *not* mean any of the following: it's okay to rush it a bit,;gee it'll be interesting to see what the beer is like after just four days; good beer takes three weeks but okay beer takes two and 4 day beer will be wild and crazy; Gee, I know I should be patient but i'm too impatient so I accept what the beer is like after 4 days even though it might not be quite ready; Four day old beer will be bad.

You can't do **any** of those things. It means

You... must... let... beer... bottle... for... three... weeks.

There is absolutely *no* deciphering required!

 

[Hang Glider]

Well, if you're serious about this new hobby - this is a great place for information, and we've all made lots of beer - but from your posts, it looks like you're going to do it all your own way, which is why we wonder...

8 days does NOT make beer. At least not good beer. We take our hobby seriously, with a passion to get it right, and figure what went wrong when it does. You asked why did it taste bad, (refer to your first post...) then proceed to ramble... If you really want advice, take it, use it, and report back your results.


Patience, temperature control, careful sanitation, and more patience...
(btw, you're not the only 'old fart' -My first computer was an old Zenith, running CP/M 80. and I was already in my 20s...)

okay, best of luck to you. I'm getting off my soapbox now.

 

[Dawai]

I think what got me, was.. A youtube video showing a guy fermenting, 7 days later bottling in a plastic bottle and "gassing it" then. I have several chrome tire-stems in pepsi bottle lids. (chill, gas and shake) I THOUGHT it was just the gas that the bottling and kegging created. So far mine tastes like "crap" when 1st fermentation shows to be done.
(note 1, just cause some youtube "expert" says so, it is not always so)

The first all grain brew was just getting "right" when the last bottle was opened. (really)

Evidently, as I have learned, flavor does not come at the end of the first fermentation.
My wife says it is like simmering soup.. must meld flavor. I now think it must be more than that.

Okay, I'll slow down now. Just cause I can follow a recipe on beer boiling does not automatically make me a expert. That comes with more education and experience. I hope to learn just one more thing on my last day on this earth when that comes.

" Another old codger? heck come sit and watch the sun come up across Fort Mountain on my porch".. Some days it is so beautiful I still am awed. The mosquitoes are quite mean the past few weeks thou.
Can you pull a wrench? See to weld? I could use a hand on this..
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=590294

 

[Dawai]

New plan, Yuengling 1/2 keg will be here Wednesday. SankeD tap Tuesday or Wednesday. I had to call and ask what I Needed to connect to. (FOURTH OF JULY barbeque)

Yeah.. self control.. self control.. I've got two bubbling along in the keezer (empty and turned up) and the black prinz dregs from the keg is in bottles in the fridge.. it is just now getting aged properly and nearly gone. It is really good.. one of the ferments gave off a bad odor out the bubbler.. I wonder about it. it smells better now thou. (poot gas??) It is in a new pdte (fe?) square food jug with a hole drilled and epoxy around the bubbler. new jug, and you worry about things you've not done before ya know. Touchie feelie, tastie.. IN the 70s I was living with a stripper, I could not keep my hands off her either..

I can start brewing 10 gallon batches I guess?? After the first one or two, it does not really matter if it is "great homebrew" or Keg swill.. (gimme the good stuff tho)

ON the bright side, my tranquillizer intake has went down considerably. More relaxing, More at peace here. Polish the bike, pet the dog, kiss the wife, more hobbies than I can do.. No worries. And when I stress.. a beer on the couch with all of the above.

 

[stratslinger]

Evidently, as I have learned, flavor does not come at the end of the first fermentation.
My wife says it is like simmering soup.. must meld flavor. I now think it must be more than that.

Well, a little bit of both, actually...

You're right, that the beer is not done at the end of primary fermentation - depending on the yeast you're using, that yeast may still have some fermentation byproducts it still has to clean up (this usually only takes a day or two) but, more importantly, it needs time for the yeast to drop out of solution so you'll have clear beer (depending on the yeast strain, this can take significantly longer than the clean-up of by-products).

But even then, it does take some time for things to meld and, sometimes, mellow. I brewed a robust porter not long ago that came out pretty hot (very boozy). I left it in the fermenter an extra month to mellow, and that month left me with a very nice finished product - it's still clearly a higher alcohol beer than I usually brew, but it's much softer around the edges than it started out.

 

[Hang Glider]

I found an odd bottle in the back of my cooler - a year-old coffee porter I had made - indeed, some things DO improve with age, that beer was AWESOME !!

 

[iowabrew]

on the bright side, my tranquillizer intake has went down considerably. More relaxing, more at peace here. Polish the bike, pet the dog, kiss the wife, more hobbies than i can do.. No worries. And when i stress.. A beer on the couch with all of the above.

huh??

 

[Dawai]

And?

The Coopers I bottled. too much sugar. (as said probably bottle bombs). I poured one last night, the carbolic acid is horrid, it had a 5 inch head on a tall glass. After the head subsided, the malto-dextrine and DME was "also too much" and it has a sweet under taste that is not pleasant, but has nice body and feel to the tongue.. (if you don't mind the taste)

Hard to screw up a "simple mix"... But Perhaps it will get better, the 5 gallons in the corny keg has 0 carbonation right now.. I'll see how it turns out.

I am learning there is a lot to learn.

 

[Hang Glider]

Yep. the basic premise of making beer is easy. Making GOOD beer is not necessarily easy. Patience, practice, sanitation, temperature, viable yeast, good recipies; lots of variables go into the process.

 

[Dawai]

HURRAH, A 11 gallon success.. (in gambling casinos one win equals a gambling addict)
Beautiful light amber color, ABV 5% BrewR Bitter on the recipe is 14, but it does not taste that high. Not carbonated yet, or aged.. but very tasty flat.

If I keep on, it'll be all right eventually I am sure. I do have a 5 gallon batch I labelled "BRIMSTONE" cause it smelled like sulphur while fermenting (I bottled it anyways). Another 1 gallon that is what I call bottle bombs.. when you pour it has a five inch head.. bottle carbonation stings your tongue, once that goes, you swirl it and dump some more gas.. then it too is tasty. same batch, It has 5 in the keg.. I bottled the extra gallon.

My bottling carbonation is hit and miss. I need to study here more. I suppose each recipe is different?

 

[stratslinger]

Good for you!

On your handful of comments: sulphur is a pretty common fermentation aroma from some yeast strains - I wouldn't be at all concerned about it showing up in the finished beer.

On those "bottle bombs", one thing you might try (I've done this with one over-carbed batch with some success) is to try just barely lifting the caps with a bottle opener - just enough to get them to hiss so they release some gas - then let the cap settle back down on the bottle. Repeat this daily for a few days, and the carbonation level will drop. After a few days you can start sampling to see when you're getting in the right neighborhood for carb level, as it does take some guess work.

As to bottling carbonation, it really shouldn't be hit and miss, once you understand what's at play. If you're bottling after fermentation is 100% complete, then it's simply a matter of adding the correct amount (by weight, not volume - volumes can vary for several different reasons, while dry weight will not) of sugar for the volume you're attempting to carbonate and the carbonation level you're attempting to carbonate it to. The same amount of sugar will carbonate a 3% mild as will carbonate a 10% Imperial Stout as will carbonate a 6.5% IPA, so long as you're looking at the same volume and same carbonation level.

 

[Dawai]

Well, I could say 3 successes.. but the dark prinz has not fully carbonated yet. I don't think it is going to be as good as the last time. It does not have the full body on the tongue, the creaminess.

THIS (picture) is the Coopers Canadian blond, modified with DME, Malto Dextrine.

Just now coming into it's own. Thou it could age some more, it's still better than store bought. Wonderful flavor, cheap.. The next 11 gallons is a mix of this and Barley grain (and a touch more Saaz hops).

I am now a "home brew addict". Love it.