Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

[NeverDie]

For me it would be S-04. I like both the taste and how it flocculates. About the only thig I don't like about it is that it prefers cooler than room temperature, which limits me to the winter or using a chiller of some kind. I'm trying to figure out whether I absolutely need a chiller, or whether some other dry yeast will suffice.

I'm finding that liquid yeasts are rather time intensive to use, so I'd like to take a break from that and use dry yeast for a while. Liquid yeasts are also more expensive, unless I preserve cultures and make stepped-starters, all of which also takes a fair amount of time that dry yeasts don't require.

What's your favorite dry yeast for making mead, and why? What I'd like to find is one that ferments well at room temperature without generating off flavors and/or losing the honey flavors/aromas.

 

[Maylar]

SO4 would be a poor choice for mead IMO. Not enough is published about it to know how it'll behave.

Lalvin ICV-D21 and D10 do well in warmer temps. So does K1V-1116, but a lot of people say its esters can ruin a mead. D10 is reputed to be very transparent.

I have a traditional with D21 in process now and I can say it's really slow during Connecticut winters.. though that's no doubt not a bad thing.

All that said, there's no one yeast that works best. The choice should be dependent on the characters of the honey you're using. Some yeasts compliment citrus honeys, another will highlight spicy honey, another would be better for fruity honey, etc. You've been sampling honeys lately, and you know how different they are. Part of the art of mead making is to be able to pick a yeast that pairs with the honey you're using.

And I'm at a point where I'm looking at temperature control, so I can take that variable out of the equation.

 

[NeverDie]

SO4 would be a poor choice for mead IMO. Not enough is published about it to know how it'll behave.

Interesting. Some of the best meads I've had to date have used S-04. I don't remember any that failed either. Maybe I was just lucky with it. Who knows?

LoveofRoses has mentioned that he totally hates K1V-1116, though some others seem to be happy with it. It's hard to know why some people arrive at different conclusions about the same yeast. That's why I'm polling on this thread: to see whether there are any consistent patterns of likes/dislikes--assuming enough people answer the question that is.

 

[NeverDie]

Hmmm. 67 views and only one response. Either a lot of non-responders, or else maybe dry yeast just isn't in favor right now.

 

[biochemedic]

I've always been a fan of Wyeast Dry Mead (Wyeast 4632)...pretty clean ferment, and will go pretty much completely dry with very little to nothing in the way of yeast byproduct flavors.

 

[NeverDie]

I've always been a fan of Wyeast Dry Mead (Wyeast 4632)...pretty clean ferment, and will go pretty much completely dry with very little to nothing in the way of yeast byproduct flavors.

Thanks for your post. Even though Wyeast 4632 is a liquid yeast, your reference to it was still worthwhile because wyeasts description of it as: "Low foaming with little or no sulfur production." Makes me want to try it for that reason alone, as rhino farts are by far my biggest fermentation failure mode, and I still get them more often than I should despite trying various things to eliminate them.

 

[biochemedic]

Thanks for your post. Even though Wyeast 4632 is a liquid yeast, your reference to it was still worthwhile because wyeasts description of it as: "Low foaming with little or no sulfur production." Makes me want to try it for that reason alone, as rhino farts are by far my biggest fermentation failure mode, and I still get them more often than I should despite trying various things to eliminate them.

Yeah, I wish I could find a dry yeast equivalent, since making a starter is kind of a PITA extra step...Still, I've made a lot of mead with 4632 and it's a beast, but very neutral, and doesn't seem to blow away all the aroma.

Edit: I actually think I missed the "dry yeast" part of your title post!!! My brain read it as "favorite yeast for making dry mead!"

 

[CKuhns]

For high ABV Mead, Cote Des Blanc. Ferments clean and dry at 62 deg F with an OG of 1.125. Has been my go to for years for Melomels. I like D47 as well for straight meads and to savd a stall have used EC1118.

 

[andrewmaixner]

A good meadmaker in my club is using 2056 (available in 500g packs) now. I can't disagree with his results. I've started using it in some of my stuff (mead, wine) also.

 

[CoreyD]

I've only made a couple meads so I can't comment on variety. For both i used the Mangrove Jacks M05 dry yeast. I was very happy with it, and have given some to some people I know that use champagne yeast. They seemed to like my mead more, but it could just be that my process was more beer influenced, so I created a different product than they do. Example: I added fruit in secondary instead of primary, so my flavors were more pronounced than theirs.

 

[Maylar]

Interesting. Some of the best meads I've had to date have used S-04. I don't remember any that failed either. Maybe I was just lucky with it. Who knows?

What are its nutrient requirements? What is its alcohol tolerance? What kind of flavor profile does it impart? Where is all that written?

LoveofRoses has mentioned that he totally hates K1V-1116, though some others seem to be happy with it. It's hard to know why some people arrive at different conclusions about the same yeast. That's why I'm polling on this thread: to see whether there are any consistent patterns of likes/dislikes--assuming enough people answer the question that is.

Pour a mead and listen to this:

http://gotmead.com/blog/gotmead-live/9-25-18-ryan-carlson-pairing-yeast-to-meads/

 

[biochemedic]

I forgot to mention that I've used Lalvin 71B for melomels with good success....

 

[NeverDie]

What are its nutrient requirements?

Maybe the only times I've ever found good nutrient info was in the very, very few highly optimized recipes, like BOMM or JAOM, and those obviously pertain mostly to the particular yeasts in those recipes. The rest of the time it seems like pure trial and error. I haven't yet tried the TOSNA 3.0 calculator. Does it have anything useful to say about particular yeasts, or is it too generic? I have my doubts that a purely generic approach would work across all yeasts, since some are known to have higher nitrogen requirements.

When I did my S-04 meads, I simply front-loaded with Fermax, according to the Fermax directions. Like I say, though, maybe I just got lucky. I haven't done enough of these yet to know whether or not I have good repeatability.

I'm presently trying out more of the SNAP approach to see where that gets me. Admittedly, I've been taking a shot gun approach to date, to get a feel for what's possible, but I'd like to narrow it down to more of a rifle approach with just a few (hopefully dry rather than liquid) yeasts sometime soon, with a preference toward quick meads (aka short meads, if I understand the definition).

For liquid yeasts, so far I like Omega HotHead and Wyeast Sweet Mead. If only they were dry yeasts I'd be totally happy.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I've only ever made two back to back and identical batches of high OG (sweet) Orange Blossom Honey Mead, one for which I used K1V-1116 yeast and the other for which I used EC1118. The K1V-1116 Mead had a very nice flavor and character, and the EC1118 Mead was noticeably more dull and characterless by comparison.

 

[z-bob]

I don't have any direct experience; it's been many years since I have made any mead. I've read about using CBC-1 yeast for mead. Belle Saison is probably worth a try.

 

[NeverDie]

So far it seems that everyone prefers a different dry yeast. So, aside from finding a yeast whose flavors are best paired with a specific honey varietal, maybe it doesn't matter which dry yeast you choose: maybe it's just about getting to know a particular yeast and how to keep it happy via nutrition and environment? After all, JAOM is made with simple bread yeast...

 

[NeverDie]

 

[Maylar]

Maybe the only times I've ever found good nutrient info was in the very, very few highly optimized recipes, like BOMM or JAOM, and those obviously pertain mostly to the particular yeasts in those recipes. The rest of the time it seems like pure trial and error. I haven't yet tried the TOSNA 3.0 calculator. Does it have anything useful to say about particular yeasts, or is it too generic? I have my doubts that a purely generic approach would work across all yeasts, since some are known to have higher nitrogen requirements.

It's a relative thing, low medium and high. Yeast data is the reason that Scott Labs (Lalvin) yeasts are so popular. They publish more about their yeasts than anyone else. Here's a chart that covers a few popular wine yeasts besides Lalvin's:

http://www.piwine.com/media/pdf/yeast-selection-chart.pdf

Note the column that says "relative nitrogen needs" - that's what you need to know to plug into the TOSNA calculators. Sometimes referred to as YAN (yeast assimilable nitrogen) requirements.

I'm presently trying out more of the SNAP approach to see where that gets me. Admittedly, I've been taking a shot gun approach to date, to get a feel for what's possible, but I'd like to narrow it down to more of a rifle approach with just a few (hopefully dry rather than liquid) yeasts sometime soon, with a preference toward quick meads (aka short meads, if I understand the definition).

Yeast health goes beyond nutrients and temperature. Understanding the science of healthy fermentation management can bring your craft to another level.

Do yourself a favor and listen to that podcast that I linked. Ryan can be wordy (boring lol) but I promise you'll have a different perspective about yeast selection. I know I do.

 

[NeverDie]

Thanks! I'll give the podcast a listen soon.

Meanwhile....

Before now I hadn't known that Fleischman's active dry yeast was considered low nitrogen requirement, high flocculation, or even that its preferred fermentation range is 55-85F. At least on paper, those are desirable traits.

https://www.meadmakr.com/mead-yeast-primer/

I had previously done some fruit juice + sugar fermentations with it (OG 1.13) and found that it fermented to completion in about 3 weeks, which in hindsight seems pretty good. I can't say that I'd want to repeat any of them--none of them were meads, but instead just not very tasty, super primitive "wines"--but useful fermentation rate data anyway. I suspect it would do better with a OG 1.075 mead must that ferments to dry (to then be stabilized and backsweetened after). Heck, it's worth a low-cost experiment just to see.

I've switched to Costco "ordinary" honey for primary fermentation on these inexpensive experiments. Then I plan to backsweeten with superior local "raw" honey after stabilizing. That way if a primary fermentation goes bad for whatever reason, it won't be as much money down the drain.

Also, I've adopted LoveOfRoses's technique of "no heat" fermenting in the Ozarka spring water container, which reduces the chance of contamination and is a lot faster to setup an experiment.

 

[NeverDie]

Wow, that podcast is long. 2.5 hours! I'm 15 minutes into it, and they haven't even gotten to the topic yet. I think I'll have to save it for bedtime listening....

Meanwhile, on topic for here, the 2018 scott handbook (linked to by the podcast) suggests the following yeasts for meads: EC1118, K1v1116, dv10, qa23, vin13, w15. Of those, dv10 looks the most interesting to me, because its description says it has "very low H2S and SO2 production," and thus (maybe?) addresses my biggest failure mode in fermentations.

Per packet DV10 is one of the more expensive ones, but the amazon description says only 1 gram per gallon (of what?) is needed. Well, at least it's a dry yeast. Also, it has a low nutrient demand and a wide fermentation range (50-95F). It also says it's known for "clean fermentations." What does that mean? https://scottlab.com/dv10-yeast-dv10

Seems like it's worth a try. I ordered some.

I figure I'll trial about eight or so different dry yeasts, more or less in parallel, using the same ingredients, except for a bit more nutrients for those that allegedly need them. So, today I launched one Premier Blanco, one Premier Cuvee (which has "medium" nutrient needs), and one Fleischman's. I'll start DV10 when it arrives on Tuesday. That leaves about another four or so different additional yeasts that I could also slot into the bake-off.

 

[z-bob]

I will be making a gallon of mead in a week or so, kinda following loveofrose's BOMM recipe, but using Vintner's Harvest AW4 yeast (because I have a bunch of packets) and cheap clover honey from Aldi or Costco. I need to get some Fermaid O (I think I have everything else), and want to practice before I use expensive liquid yeast and fancy honey.

 

[NeverDie]

I will be making a gallon of mead in a week or so, kinda following loveofrose's BOMM recipe, but using Vintner's Harvest AW4 yeast (because I have a bunch of packets) and cheap clover honey from Aldi or Costco. I need to get some Fermaid O (I think I have everything else), and want to practice before I use expensive liquid yeast and fancy honey.

Cool! Never heard of that one before. Please do report back as to how it goes. From what I've just read it is "nitrogen hungry."

Do we know whether 1388 is low, medium, or high in its nitrogen requirements? I too am planning to use loveofrose's BOMM nutrient sschedule (actually, the newer 6b schedule from his website), and it would be nice to know what the requirements are of 1388 so that I can add or subtract accordingly.

 

[z-bob]

Cool! Never heard of that one before. Please do report back as to how it goes. From what I've read it is "nitrogen hungry."

That's good to know. Thanks. So far I have only used it in cider, with DAP for the nutrients.

 

[NeverDie]

Looks as though 71B is also a low producer of H2S and SO2, so I think I'll be trying it also.

Even though it's a liquid yeast, I'll also do a batch of 1388 for comparison, since that's what BOMM is centered on.

I was surprised to read that EC1118 tends to produce a lot of SO2 if it runs low on nitrogen. I was planning to try it, but after reading that I'm not so sure.

 

[CoreyD]

Basic Brewing Radio podcast has an episode from 1-10-19 that is a sampler of three different yeasts with mead. It's only 40 min long, and very interesting. It can be found here
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio

 

[NeverDie]

Basic Brewing Radio podcast has an episode from 1-10-19 that is a sampler of three different yeasts with mead. It's only 40 min long, and very interesting. It can be found here
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio

For the benefit of anyone reading this, the yeasts reviewed are BE134, S05, and S33, all with an OG of 1.110.

I notice the Fermentis datasheets don't provide much information, so I guess that's why there are shows like this one, where you maybe get a fuller picture.

 

[NeverDie]

What are its nutrient requirements? What is its alcohol tolerance? What kind of flavor profile does it impart? Where is all that written?



Pour a mead and listen to this:

http://gotmead.com/blog/gotmead-live/9-25-18-ryan-carlson-pairing-yeast-to-meads/

Not sure if it helps at all, but according to this chart: https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/yeast-comparison-charts.html
S04 is the same as Wyeast Whitbread 1099

Actually, I'm not sure if I believe it, as Wyeast specs a wider temperature range for 1099 than Fermentis does for S04. If they are in fact the same, then that would be interesting.

 

[madscientist451]

71B is my go-to yeast for mead at the moment. I'm mostly into beer and only do a few meads a year, so I'm not the best resource, but my 2 cents would be this:
Everyone has different tastes. Combine that with all the different nutrient methods and varieties of honey available and you aren't going to really get a worthwhile answer about which yeast is best.
Suggestion: Get whatever honey you are likely going to use, and make some one gallon batches with as many different yeasts as you can. Try to keep the method the same (if possible) so you can really tell how the different yeasts suit YOUR TASTE.

 

[NeverDie]

71B is my go-to yeast for mead at the moment. I'm mostly into beer and only do a few meads a year, so I'm not the best resource, but my 2 cents would be this:
Everyone has different tastes. Combine that with all the different nutrient methods and varieties of honey available and you aren't going to really get a worthwhile answer about which yeast is best.
Suggestion: Get whatever honey you are likely going to use, and make some one gallon batches with as many different yeasts as you can. Try to keep the method the same (if possible) so you can really tell how the different yeasts suit YOUR TASTE.

Yup. You nailed it. That's exactly what I'm going to do.

 

[NeverDie]

I'm going to try D21. Its datasheet says: "Low production of H2S under low YAN conditions," which sounds very promising for avoiding rhino farts. With a temperature range of 61F to 86F, room temperature should be no problem at all for it.

 

[NeverDie]

Most promising one yet: a yeast which is totally *incapable* of producing H2S: https://www.thebeveragepeople.com/p...-h2s-preventing-wine-yeast-500-g-details.html

The company that manufactures it has around 5 different yeast strains like that, but the minimum order is 500g, so that makes it rather expensive to test drive it.

A number of them can ferment at high temperatures, so they look very promising indeed.

Lalvin has one called Senys, which can't produce H2S nor can it produce SO2, but unfortunately for me it ferments only at colder temperatures.

 

[Maylar]

Wow, that podcast is long. 2.5 hours! I'm 15 minutes into it, and they haven't even gotten to the topic yet. I think I'll have to save it for bedtime listening....

Yep. Click the progress bar and skip ahead. Some of the podcasts have a lot of BS in the beginning.

Per packet DV10 is one of the more expensive ones, but the amazon description says only 1 gram per gallon (of what?) is needed. Well, at least it's a dry yeast. Also, it has a low nutrient demand and a wide fermentation range (50-95F). It also says it's known for "clean fermentations." What does that mean? https://scottlab.com/dv10-yeast-dv10

https://scottlab.com/dv10-yeast-dv10

Pitch rate depends on starting gravity and batch size. I'm seeing people using 2 grams per gallon with mead, and always rehydrated in GoFerm. I used 2 packets of D21 for my current 5 gallon batch, per Ryan's recommendation.

 

[NeverDie]

I found a cider yeast which is incapable of producing H2S and which is available in 10g increments, so I ordered it: https://www.thebeveragepeople.com/products/yeast/10-g-fresco-cider-wine-yeast.html

Perhaps (?) it will do well in a cysor.

I'll add it to my yeast bake-off as soon as it arrives, probably later this week.

 

[Shine0n]

In the last couple months I've grown to love QA23 and RC212

212 did great in my mesquite trad fermented on AO and Hungarian med toast cubes. Very nice!!!

QA23 was awesome in my barrel fermented bochet

 

[Maylar]

I found a cider yeast which is incapable of producing H2S and which is available in 10g increments, so I ordered it: https://www.thebeveragepeople.com/products/yeast/10-g-fresco-cider-wine-yeast.html

Perhaps (?) it will do well in a cysor.

I'll add it to my yeast bake-off as soon as it arrives, probably later this week.

Thanks for the link. I ordered some too... with red apple and citrus notes it might be perfect for an orange blossom cyser. Gonna give that a shot.

 

[NeverDie]

Thanks for the link. I ordered some too... with red apple and citrus notes it might be perfect for an orange blossom cyser. Gonna give that a shot.

When you're just starting out with a new yeast whose nutrient needs you either don't know or can't find, how do you proceed? e.g. Do you start by supplying it with the lowest amounts of nutrients and then add to that if it seems to ferment too slowly or stall or complain (e.g. perhaps you smell H2S, but not in this case of course)? Or, do you go with heavy nutrients on the first batch and then cut back on subsequent batches until you find where the nutrient threshold is? Or....?

 

[Maylar]

When you're just starting out with a new yeast whose nutrient needs you either don't know or can't find, how do you proceed? e.g. Do you start by supplying it with the lowest amounts of nutrients and then add to that if it seems to ferment too slowly or stall or complain (e.g. perhaps you smell H2S, but not in this case of course)? Or, do you go with heavy nutrients on the first batch and then cut back on subsequent batches until you find where the nutrient threshold is? Or....?

I assume they're "medium" if not specified. But I really tend to avoid anything that's not documented. Fortunately, that one is. Underfeeding leads to stressed yeast, sulfur. Overfeeding leaves unused nutrients in the mead, which you can taste.

 

[NeverDie]

I've only ever made two back to back and identical batches of high OG (sweet) Orange Blossom Honey Mead, one for which I used K1V-1116 yeast and the other for which I used EC1118. The K1V-1116 Mead had a very nice flavor and character, and the EC1118 Mead was noticeably more dull and characterless by comparison.

What kind of nutrients did you use for K1v-1116. I've made two attempts at using it, and both ended sulfurous. Out of the 10 or so different yeast test batches I currently have going, K1v-1116 is the only failure so far. I'd like to try to make it work though.

 

[Maylar]

That's odd, because Scott Labs shows K1's nutrient requirements as low.

 

[z-bob]

What kind of nutrients did you use for K1v-1116. I've made two attempts at using it, and both ended sulfurous. Out of the 10 or so different yeast test batches I currently have going, K1v-1116 is the only failure so far. I'd like to try to make it work though.

I've used K1V-1116 in beer and cider. (it works better in beer than you'd expect) Never noticed any sulfur, but I use nutrients in cider, and beer wort has plenty of them on its own. K1 is very ester-y. That might be good if you're making mead with cheap clover honey. But I don't think you'd want to use it was delicate and expensive varietal honeys. The beer I made with all pilsner malt and fermented with K1 was one of my best beers ever. The beer made with pale ale and dark Munich malts was okay but the esters were much more pronounced and distracting. Both were fermented quite cool.