Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

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NeverDie said:
What kind of nutrients did you use for K1v-1116. I've made two attempts at using it, and both ended sulfurous. Out of the 10 or so different yeast test batches I currently have going, K1v-1116 is the only failure so far. I'd like to try to make it work though.
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I was a rookie back then and did not use any nutrient or do any acid adjustment.
 
OK, I just now pitched a fresh batch of K1V-1116. If it goes sulfurous again on me again, I'll try putting it on a slide under a microscope and see if anything jumps out at me.

Can bacterial infections also cause sulfurous smells? I've read yes. So, how do I know whether the sulfur smell is coming from bacteria or instead from stressed yeast?
 
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Watched a youtube of Schramm, and he says 71B is his "go to" yeast for mead. From watching some other youtube's of other pro mead makers, I get the impression it's popular for commercial mead producers to use.



By the way, Schramm says for sweet meads he starts with a very high gravity must and let's it ferment to completion, so not at all the ferment dry and then backsweeten approach that loveofroses seems to like. He says that 71B is tolerant of a very high OG, whereas some other yeasts can't really handle it well.
 
NeverDie said:
Watched a youtube of Schramm, and he says 71B is his "go to" yeast for mead. From watching some other youtube's of other pro mead makers, I get the impression it's popular for commercial mead producers to use.



By the way, Schramm says for sweet meads he starts with a very high gravity must and let's it ferment to completion, so not at all the ferment dry and then backsweeten approach that loveofroses seems to like. He says that 71B is tolerant of a very high OG, whereas some other yeasts can't really handle it well.
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I did that just now with mangrove jack California lager and it got a bit hot at the end. It was an experiment. I guess it really depends first on the yeast and second on the way you treat it. I guess there are many yeasts that will always end up hot, no matter how well you adjust temperature and nutrient additions and than there are those few ones that actually can handle it, given the right treatment.
 
Miraculix said:
I did that just now with mangrove jack California lager and it got a bit hot at the end. It was an experiment. I guess it really depends first on the yeast and second on the way you treat it. I guess there are many yeasts that will always end up hot, no matter how well you adjust temperature and nutrient additions and than there are those few ones that actually can handle it, given the right treatment.
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Maybe that's what Schramm meant when he said that 71B is predictable: that, based on experience and tight control over the variables, he can be confident as to what ABV 71B will stop at, whereas with many yeasts, it might run higher and/or hotter or simply with greater variability from batch to batch.
 
NeverDie said:
Maybe that's what Schramm meant when he said that 71B is predictable: that, based on experience and tight control over the variables, he can be confident as to what ABV 71B will stop at, whereas with many yeasts, it might run higher and/or hotter or simply with greater variability from batch to batch.
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Has anyone here tried one of his commercially produced sweet meads? As a check on the veracity of what he's saying, it would be interesting to know what it says on the ingredients label. Does it list any sorbates or sulfites?

---------------------

Another thing that's interesting is that Schramm prefers DAP over the new organic fermaid nutrients, because it can be fully utilized and leave nothing behind, whereas with the organic nutrients there's a lot of leftover yeast hulls at the end to cloud things up.
 
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I have seen it on some packaging. Not alcohol neccessarily. I belive the law requires if you put it in, it goes on the label. I could be wrong.
 
Blacksmith1 said:
I have seen it on some packaging. Not alcohol neccessarily. I belive the law requires if you put it in, it goes on the label. I could be wrong.
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I would think so. Otherwise, I doubt anyone would include it on their product's ingredient list.
 
Schramm's doesn't use sorbate/sulfite (though fermentation itself does generate some sulfite, I believe).

They rely on incredibly high OG and experience, to achieve a yeast intolerance level of ABV that results in a high FG and very sweet mead without sorbate/sulfite and backsweetening.

While Schramm's meads are amazing, they are incredibly sweet....though meticulously balanced....you wouldn't know you're drinking something with an FG of 1.080+....
 
This morning I ordered 4 of Schramm's meads: ginger mead, raspberry mead, blackberry mead, and "The Statement" (which appears to be a blend of 51% cherry juice and 49% mead). I don't believe this sort of thing is carried locally, so I paid for FedEx ground shipping in order to get it.

I wish he made a purely traditional mead, using only honey and water and yeast, as it would be an interesting benchmark. Which commercial producer makes the best one of those?
 
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It's not cherry juice. They use whole cherries....

Definitely make an experience out of it....charcuterie plate, chocolate, etc...

I can't afford to buy that stuff much, but it's always a treat to have it.

Someday, I want some Heart of Darkness...


Edit: that's cool that they're shipping now...that's relatively new.
 
AZ_IPA said:
Schramm's doesn't use sorbate/sulfite (though fermentation itself does generate some sulfite, I believe).

They rely on incredibly high OG and experience, to achieve a yeast intolerance level of ABV that results in a high FG and very sweet mead without sorbate/sulfite and backsweetening.

While Schramm's meads are amazing, they are incredibly sweet....though meticulously balanced....you wouldn't know you're drinking something with an FG of 1.080+....
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What other high caliber meads have you tried that are worth ordering?
 
Not sure how accessible they are (I think many are on Vinoshipper though...)

Brimminghorn Meadery
Lost Cause Meadery
Meridian Hive Meadery
Melovino Meadery

Those are some of my favorites. They all make some fairly unique stuff....brimminghorn is a master with herb/spice combos; Lost Cause is doing amazing things with buckwheat honey, barrels, etc.; Meridian Hive's draft session meads are great; Melovino is doing some incredibly unique "beer style" meads.
 
Current status on dry yeast testing:

I did a count, and I currently have 16 test batches, each with a different yeast, fermenting away at room temperature. I expect many of them won't do well at that temperature, but hopefully some of them will. I'm still waiting to receive the no-H2S cider yeast (that I linked earlier in this thread), and when I get it, I'll add it to the shootout.

Of the 16 yeasts that are currently fermenting, 3 are liquid yeasts just to have a point of comparison.

The 13 dry yeasts currently under trial are:
DV10, S-04, EC-1118, Belle Saison, K1V-1116, D21, CdC, D47, Premier Blanco, Fleishmann's, 71B, and Premier Cuvee.

The 3 liquid yeasts are:
1388, Wyeast Sweet Mead, and Voss Kveik.

All of them are being made with the same type and amount of honey and the same spring water in the same type of vessel. It's as close to apples-to-apples as I can make it.
 
You are out running me big time. I'm about to get the juice to try S-05 and see if it works any better than the S-04 for me.
 
NeverDie said:
Current status on dry yeast testing:

I did a count, and I currently have 16 test batches, each with a different yeast, fermenting away at room temperature. I expect many of them won't do well at that temperature, but hopefully some of them will. I'm still waiting to receive the no-H2S cider yeast (that I linked earlier in this thread), and when I get it, I'll add it to the shootout.

Of the 16 yeasts that are currently fermenting, 3 are liquid yeasts just to have a point of comparison.

The 13 dry yeasts currently under trial are:
DV10, S-04, EC-1118, Belle Saison, K1V-1116, D21, CdC, D47, Premier Blanco, Fleishmann's, 71B, and Premier Cuvee.

The 3 liquid yeasts are:
1388, Wyeast Sweet Mead, and Voss Kveik.

All of them are being made with the same type and amount of honey and the same spring water in the same type of vessel. It's as close to apples-to-apples as I can make it.
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May I suggest an additional yeast that I have not tested myself? Mangrove Jack m31 Belgian tripel, which might be the Wyeast 1388 (the original BOMM yeast) in dry version.

Here is a thread covering this topic:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mangrove-jacks-m31-in-bomm.660755/

I tested myself CBC 1 in waaaaay to warm conditions and it trow of soime higher alcohols, but I made it without fermentation control within the summer heat which was HIIIGH this summer in Uk (30C+!) during main fermentation... so my fault. Otherwise the yeast didn't contribute much, which is a good thing in mead, I guess.
 
Miraculix said:
May I suggest an additional yeast that I have not tested myself? Mangrove Jack m31 Belgian tripel, which might be the Wyeast 1388 (the original BOMM yeast) in dry version.
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OK, I ordered it. May not arrive until March 18.

Thanks!
 
Miraculix said:
Brilliant, let us know how it turns out! It was also on my list for my next non-wild mead :)
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Sure. You should probably try it anyway though just in case I get an atypical result with it, because I have no way to check for that.

----------------------------

I wasn't previously particularly interested in 71B, but now that I'm hearing about how it's used by the pro's and is a lot more predictable than some of the others, I'll be paying more attention to how it turns out.
 
NeverDie said:
Sure. You should probably try it anyway though just in case I get an atypical result with it, because I have no way to check for that.

----------------------------

I wasn't previously particularly interested in 71B, but now that I'm hearing about how it's used by the pro's and is a lot more predictable than some of the others, I'll be paying more attention to how it turns out.
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I agree. I have some prior experience with wine yeasts (before I really got sucked into the beer thing) and I remeber HORRIBEL flocculation, therefore I neglected all wine yeasts. But reading the same stuff you read makes me wonder if it might be worth the extra time it needs to settle.
 
Miraculix said:
I agree. I have some prior experience with wine yeasts (before I really got sucked into the beer thing) and I remeber HORRIBEL flocculation, therefore I neglected all wine yeasts. But reading the same stuff you read makes me wonder if it might be worth the extra time it needs to settle.
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Seems like the only way to know for sure is to try it for oneself, which is why I'm doing this shootout. I got tired of reading all the vague online descriptions and then feeling like I still couldn't be sure one way or the other.

This is my first experience with 1388, and so far I'm liking what I see. If it turns out that m31 is the same, or at least very similar, but in dry form, that could be a big win.

I've also been pleasantly impressed with Wyeast Sweet Mead. I'd love to find it or an equivalent in dry form. Anyone know if there is such a thing in the market?

I did find a website that was selling some kveik's in dry form, but it appears they are all sold out at the moment.
 
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NeverDie said:
Not sure if it helps at all, but according to this chart: https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/yeast-comparison-charts.html
S04 is the same as Wyeast Whitbread 1099
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Don't believe everything you read on the internet. S-04 has been linked to Whitbread for ages, but sequencing of its DNA has shown that it's most closely related to WLP006 Bedford and WLP013 London.

People in this thread might be interested in something I posted a while back, I was looking at wine yeasts from a beer POV so was mostly interested in POF-ness and killer status, but the Gallo/Stanford paper I link to looked at levels of a whole load of metabolites from different wine yeasts in Chardonnay must. You might be able to extrapolate a bit to some of the rare wine yeasts based on your experience of how the standard yeasts perform in mead versus their reported behaviour in Chardonnay.
 
NeverDie said:
Watched a youtube of Schramm, and he says 71B is his "go to" yeast for mead. From watching some other youtube's of other pro mead makers, I get the impression it's popular for commercial mead producers to use.



By the way, Schramm says for sweet meads he starts with a very high gravity must and let's it ferment to completion, so not at all the ferment dry and then backsweeten approach that loveofroses seems to like. He says that 71B is tolerant of a very high OG, whereas some other yeasts can't really handle it well.
Click to expand...


Part of what was uplifting about that video is that Schramm more or less says that if you're willing to buy the best possible ingredients, then in principle you too can brew world class meads at home for much less than what you can buy them for commercially. I am hopeful this is true! Certainly for less than cost of buying a Schramm mead, I can buy pretty much any of the best honeys out there. Also, he points out that homebrewers have far more flexibiity than commercial brewers, who have to turnover their fermentation tanks as quickly as possible to maximize their profits.

In contrast, I don't think the same can be said for making wine, for instance, where access to the best wine grapes is a major barrier.
 
:mad: Upon further reading-up, it appears that Texas, where I live, may be one of the retarded states that may not allow me to receive mead shipped to me, unless the seller jumps through red tape, which I don't think they will. Damn! Is there any practical workaround to this?

About all I can think of is that maybe I could have it shipped to out-of-state relatives in one of the non-retarded states and then maybe I retrieve it the next time I visit them. That would at least be easier than travelling to Detroit, but talk about cumbersome! What are we here, North Korea?
 
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Connecticut is like that too. We can't buy any liquor that's not on the "list". Sellers have to submit an application to the state to be approved. I want to get some of B. Nektar's Zombie Killer (from Michigan) and have to drive to Massachusetts to get it. Even the package stores can't get it for me.
 
So, there is no red-tape cutting solution? Some re-shipper that, for a fee, has specialized in handling red tape so as to be fully compliant? In the convoluted world of Texas, if the winery were to send it, it would be OK. However, it's not OK for a wholesaler/distributor to send it. Go figure. :confused:

Bah! I may have to cancel my order. I'm just surprised the seller's website didn't reject it out of hand.

What's the worst that can happen? Would it get impounded and destroyed? Or would FedEx return it to the shipper?

Well, yet another reason to make my own mead!
 
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Dunno about the Lone Star State, but here in CT the "red tape" involves submitting their labels for approval. Not something that can be circumvented with a fee. Web sites I've visited typically have either a list of states they'll ship to or a locator of wine/liquor stores that carry their stuff.

edit: According to Schramm's web site they don't ship anywhere. It's pickup only.
 
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Maylar said:
edit: According to Schramm's web site they don't ship anywhere. It's pickup only.
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Yes, exactly. That's what forced me to go to a distributor who handles their stuff.

Well, I guess I'll have to cancel it and just wait for when I next visit my out-of-state relatives. :(
 
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Status update: I received the Fresco cider yeast and started it fermenting yesterday evening. Comes in nice little vials instead of packets.

So, all yeasts are currently fermenting, except for M31 Mangrove Jack, which I'm waiting to receive.
 
****. That ducks
NeverDie said:
Status update: I received the Fresco cider yeast and started it fermenting yesterday evening. Comes in nice little vials instead of packets.

So, all yeasts are currently fermenting, except for M31 Mangrove Jack, which I'm waiting to receive.
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I can't wait to hear results on all of them!
 
I always go to the scott lab handbook for yeast specks, also batchbuilder will help you dial in.

They ask either low, med or high so if in doubt go med and never go past the 1/3 depletion with them.

I only use fermaid O and batchbuilder does both ferm k and o in the calc. Just use the option of which on you have.
 
Shine0n said:
I always go to the scott lab handbook for yeast specks, also batchbuilder will help you dial in.

They ask either low, med or high so if in doubt go med and never go past the 1/3 depletion with them.

I only use fermaid O and batchbuilder does both ferm k and o in the calc. Just use the option of which on you have.
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What do you mean when you say "never go past the 1/3 depletion with them"?
 
NeverDie said:
What do you mean when you say "never go past the 1/3 depletion with them"?
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Don't add additional nutrients once you've reached the 1/3rd sugar break.

Meaning, when 1/3rd of the sugars are consumed, you don't add more.

Example, if your OG is 1.100 and your expected FG is 1.000, you have 100 points of sugar. 1/3rd is 33. So when your gravity is 1.066 (100 - 33), you don't add more nutrient.

It gets a little more complicated, as you have to guess FG, but the math winds up being pretty simple.
 
AZ_IPA said:
Don't add additional nutrients once you've reached the 1/3rd sugar break.

Meaning, when 1/3rd of the sugars are consumed, you don't add more.

Example, if your OG is 1.100 and your expected FG is 1.000, you have 100 points of sugar. 1/3rd is 33. So when your gravity is 1.066 (100 - 33), you don't add more nutrient.

It gets a little more complicated, as you have to guess FG, but the math winds up being pretty simple.
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I should be OK then. I've been following the 6b DLNA protocol outlined here: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/brays-one-month-mead/

About half the yeasts are now under airlock, and the other half have not yet reached the 1/3 sugar break mark, so they aren't yet under airlock--just under loose lids.
 
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NeverDie said:
Status update: I received the Fresco cider yeast and started it fermenting yesterday evening. Comes in nice little vials instead of packets.
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Got mine too. One of the local farm stands (a very fancy one) opens for the season March 16, I'm gonna visit and see if they have any of last year's cider. Wanna get a cyser started.
 
Update: On my first two failed attempts, I rehydrated the K1v-1116 yeast according to the directions on the package. On my third attempt, though, I just pitched it directly with no rehydration, and that seems to be working without going sulfurous (well, so far at least). It's now under airlock, so I won't know more until it completely finishes fermentation in, I'm guessing, about 2 to 4 weeks from now.
 

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