Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

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I know that JOAM is meant to uses bread yeast, but has anyone here tried any other yeast strains on the same recipe and gotten even better results? If so, which yeasts turn out especially well?
 
In the cases I've seen, using something else results in a crappy mead. Typically other yeasts take it dry and anything less than about 1.010 is bitter as hell because of the orange pith. Some people fix that by not using the pith, starting at a lower OG, fermenting dry and back sweetening. Pick a yeast that compliments citrus flavors.

But to your point, anything that quits at about 12% should work.
 
Just a couple quick updates:

The Fresco seems to be performing well and is already under airlock. As expected, not even a hint of H2S.

The Belle Saison has a very different kind of aroma: smells peppery and even a bit like olives. It maybe needs a much more fragrant honey to balance it out. Or, maybe it's destined for a capsicumel? It also went under airlock today, as per the BOMM protocol.
 
JAOM trust me don`t mess with it. (Dont ask me how i know) It works as is. Just so happens im drinking one started in October 2016 bottled in Jan 2017. Didn`t touch it till Jan 18 and each 3 months after. Really glad i waited for it to age out. It is pretty darned good.
20190311_192650.jpeg
 
Maylar said:
In the cases I've seen, using something else results in a crappy mead. Typically other yeasts take it dry and anything less than about 1.010 is bitter as hell because of the orange pith. Some people fix that by not using the pith, starting at a lower OG, fermenting dry and back sweetening. Pick a yeast that compliments citrus flavors.

But to your point, anything that quits at about 12% should work.
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If you use tangerines or kumquats instead of oranges it might work with a different yeast. (tangerines are a *lot* cheaper unless you have your own kumquat tree) Neither of them has bitter pith. I haven't made JAOM, but I've read about it and I agree with "don't mess with it".
 
CKuhns said:
JAOM trust me don`t mess with it. (Don't ask me how I know) It works as is. Just so happens I'm drinking one started in October 2016 bottled in Jan 2017. Didn`t touch it till Jan 18 and each 3 months after. Really glad i waited for it to age out. It is pretty darned good.
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It's a novelty mead, but I like it too. It gets better with time and at about 8 months the flavors meld and the orange aroma is just wonderful. Though with what I now know about making mead I'm tempted to make one with modern protocols and see if it can be even better.
 
NeverDie said:
Seems like the only way to know for sure is to try it for oneself, which is why I'm doing this shootout. I got tired of reading all the vague online descriptions and then feeling like I still couldn't be sure one way or the other.
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Have you given any thought yet about how you will classify or judge the results of your yeast experiments? Like, at the end of it all what criteria would make one "better" than another?
 
Maylar said:
Have you given any thought yet about how you will classify or judge the results of your yeast experiments? Like, at the end of it all what criteria would make one "better" than another?
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Not much. I'm open to suggestions.

Update: everything but M31 has passed its second sugar break and is now under airlock. Still waiting to receive M31.
 
Maylar said:
Have you given any thought yet about how you will classify or judge the results of your yeast experiments? Like, at the end of it all what criteria would make one "better" than another?
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I think step #1 will be to sort out the obvious failures and set them aside (permanently). Then, depending on how many are left, decide what to do. Anyhow, that's my current plan, but like I say, I welcome suggestions.
 
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NeverDie said:
I think step #1 will be to sort out the obvious failures and set them aside (permanently). Then, depending on how many are left, decide what to do. Anyhow, that's much current plan, but like I say, I welcome suggestions.
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This has all been on your nickel, so you should be making a list of what it is that you had hoped to discover. Your criteria might be different than someone else's.

You're making what's called a traditional mead - honey, water, and yeast. What you're going to end up with will be dry and probably a bit tart and acidic. It takes a trained palette to discern the often subtle differences that the yeasts contributed to the final result. This is all about sensory perception, and I'm guessing that you're as clueless as I am about being able to quantify that. (I hope I'm wrong here). It's also a function of the honey, and how each yeast contributed or detracted from the honey's character.

I guess that on a gross scale, you'll be able to tell if each yeast was at least successful. Final gravity, H2S production, flocculation... what else? But can you identify "esters"? I had to Google that to even know what they are.
 
Maylar said:
This has all been on your nickel, so you should be making a list of what it is that you had hoped to discover. Your criteria might be different than someone else's.

You're making what's called a traditional mead - honey, water, and yeast. What you're going to end up with will be dry and probably a bit tart and acidic. It takes a trained palette to discern the often subtle differences that the yeasts contributed to the final result. This is all about sensory perception, and I'm guessing that you're as clueless as I am about being able to quantify that. (I hope I'm wrong here). It's also a function of the honey, and how each yeast contributed or detracted from the honey's character.

I guess that on a gross scale, you'll be able to tell if each yeast was at least successful. Final gravity, H2S production, flocculation... what else? But can you identify "esters"? I had to Google that to even know what they are.
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My understanding is that esters are the aromas contributed by the yeast that give the yeast strain its distinctive character. So, for instance, it's already clear that the Belle Saison has peppery and maybe even olive esters, which is very different from the other yeasts, some of which contribute citrus aromas. I guess the so-called "neutral" yeasts are ones which don't contribute any distinctive aromas. For each batch, I'll make notes of what aromas I detect.

Fusels are different and undesirable. My understanding is that they are what would make the mead feel "hot" in the mouth. If present in high amounts they might even make the mead taste or smell like paint thinner. Because I'm fermenting at room temperature, I expect fusels will be the primary failure mode that I'll encounter. In addition to temperature, I get the impression that a lack of nutrients (or basically anything that stresses the yeast) may be a cause of fusels. This is where it gets a bit ambiguous, because how will I know that it isn't, say, a lack of adequate nutrients that caused the failure instead of merely temperature? Well, I probably won't know, and so I may end up disqualifying some yeast for the wrong reason. However, I'm hoping I will have enough non-failure batches from other yeasts that it won't matter.
 
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In any case, I used the same OG of 1.080 on all of the yeasts and will be letting them all ferment to completion. Why 1.080? It should give at most an ABV of 10.4%. At the time I set up the trials I had an hypothesis that the honey character tends to diminish as the ABV increases, and I wanted to keep the honey character if I could. Later, after having already started the trials, I saw a post on this forum by someone who claims that an ABV of 12-14% is actually the ideal range for mead. Thinking about it now, that may well be true, as the Schramm meads are, IIRC, around 14% ABV. So, I may have blown it by picking too low of an OG, but we'll see.
 
At least you will find the best yeast for your room temperature conditions, and I think this is already really great to know.

A higher og might have been better, but maybe you wanna do this experiment later with the finalists.
 
I'm starting to think there are as many different strong opinions about how to make mead as there are mead makers. This is an article from a meadery about why they typically ferment *above* the recommended temperature range: https://www.groennfell.com/blog/why-so-hot

Go figure, but if true, maybe I won't have as many failures at room temperature as I thought I would. Time will tell....
 
NeverDie said:
I'm starting to think there are as many different strong opinions about how to make mead as there are mead makers. This is an article from a meadery about why they typically ferment *above* the recommended temperature range: https://www.groennfell.com/blog/why-so-hot

Go figure, but if true, maybe I won't have as many failures at room temperature as I thought I would. Time will tell....
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Interesting read!
 
I received the M31 Mangrove Jack Belgian Tripel Yeast, so I'll start it fermenting this evening. That's the final one I'll be trying on this first traunch of yeast experiments.

Also, I can now confirm that the Ken Schramm meads say on their back label "CONTAINS ONLY NATURALLY OCCURING SULFITES", and they make no mention of sorbates either.
 
Update:
I not only pitched a batch of M31, but also a batch of M05 and a batch of Hornindal (liquid), this time all at OG 1.105 (which corresponds to ABV 13.7% if all the honey ferments).

So, that concludes all the yeasts for this first-phase of the room-temp yeast round-up.

Interestingly, on the package M31 claims to have an alcohol tolerance of only 10%. So, this may turn out to be a sweet mead when it finishes fermenting. We'll see.
 
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NeverDie said:
Update:
I not only pitched a batch of M31, but also a batch of M05 and a batch of Hornindal (liquid), this time all at OG 1.105 (which corresponds to ABV 13.7% if all the honey ferments).

So, that concludes all the yeasts for this first-phase of the room-temp yeast round-up.

Interestingly, on the package M31 claims to have an alcohol tolerance of only 10%. So, this may turn out to be a sweet mead when it finishes fermenting. We'll see.
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That is actually not so good. Fusel (longer chained) alcohol production (the "hotness") increases with every yeast with higher abv and with higher starting gravity. Also ester production is depending on the SG and ABV (and many other things abviously...). It will therefore not really be possible to compare those last three to all the other batches. Unless, they throw even less esters and fusels than the other batches, this would mean that the yeasts are superior.

I am really looking forward to seeing the results of 31 and the mead yeast from mj :)
 
NeverDie said:
Update:
I not only pitched a batch of M31, but also a batch of M05 and a batch of Hornindal (liquid), this time all at OG 1.105 (which corresponds to ABV 13.7% if all the honey ferments).

So, that concludes all the yeasts for this first-phase of the room-temp yeast round-up.

Interestingly, on the package M31 claims to have an alcohol tolerance of only 10%. So, this may turn out to be a sweet mead when it finishes fermenting. We'll see.
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Interested in ur Kveik results [emoji12] What's ur room temp?
 
Afaik, Kveik is a yeast that needs LOADS of nutrients. So if there are some weird results with it, it should be worth checking again with increased nutrient additions.
 
Miraculix said:
Afaik, Kveik is a yeast that needs LOADS of nutrients. So if there are some weird results with it, it should be worth checking again with increased nutrient additions.
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Oh. Thanks for the heads up! I'll add more nutes then.
 
Miraculix said:
That is actually not so good. Fusel (longer chained) alcohol production (the "hotness") increases with every yeast with higher abv and with higher starting gravity. Also ester production is depending on the SG and ABV (and many other things abviously...). It will therefore not really be possible to compare those last three to all the other batches. Unless, they throw even less esters and fusels than the other batches, this would mean that the yeasts are superior.

I am really looking forward to seeing the results of 31 and the mead yeast from mj :)
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The way I see it: if it's producing fusels, it's disqualified either way. And if nothing bad happens, then I don't need to re-run the test at the higher OG.

Anyhow, let's see what the data shows.
 
Maylar said:
What's the Fresco's aroma like so far? I hope to start a cyser with mine tomorrow.
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I haven't checked after putting it under airlock, but before that it was very nice. I don't remember the details though.
 
By the way, I notice now that Schramm's Heritage Raspberry mead has an ABV of 12.5%, so I was wrong to say that all of his meads are 14% ABV.
 
Miraculix said:
No! Keep the conditions the same! How to you want to compare yeasts if you keep switching conditions all the time ?!
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I think (hope) what he's been doing is adjusting the nutrient feedings to match the requirements of each yeast. That's what I would do. You don't want to put a yeast at a disadvantage because you didn't feed it properly. That's something that can be handled on an as needed basis easily, unlike temperature.
 
Maylar said:
I think (hope) what he's been doing is adjusting the nutrient feedings to match the requirements of each yeast. That's what I would do. You don't want to put a yeast at a disadvantage because you didn't feed it properly. That's something that can be handled on an as needed basis easily, unlike temperature.
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Exactly.
 
Maylar said:
So does this mean you were able to get his meads delivered to Texas?
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Uh, no, I cancelled my order. Fortunately, after hearing what happened, my relatives took pity on me for having to live under a totalitarian regime, so they bought them for me as a gift and then re-shipped them to me, which makes it all perfectly legal.
 
NeverDie said:
The way I see it: if it's producing fusels, it's disqualified either way. And if nothing bad happens, then I don't need to re-run the test at the higher OG.

Anyhow, let's see what the data shows.
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The thing is, almost all of the yeast produce fusels at the upper end of the abv range, there are just a few that can be treated/handled in a certain way which then minimises the fusel production significantly. This means, if you see one of the higher OG meads throw fusels and discard them, some of the lower OG meads that don't throw fusels at their lower OG might stay in the list of candidates, although they might have thrown even more fusels at the higher OG than the one that you just discarded. That's a bit of an uncertainty now. But if you find one of the higher OG yeasts being better than the others at lower OG, then you certainly have found a good candidate!

Maylar said:
I think (hope) what he's been doing is adjusting the nutrient feedings to match the requirements of each yeast. That's what I would do. You don't want to put a yeast at a disadvantage because you didn't feed it properly. That's something that can be handled on an as needed basis easily, unlike temperature.
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This is actually true. haven't thought my post through.
 
Miraculix said:
The thing is, almost all of the yeast produce fusels at the upper end of the abv range, there are just a few that can be treated/handled in a certain way which then minimises the fusel production significantly. This means, if you see one of the higher OG meads throw fusels and discard them, some of the lower OG meads that don't throw fusels at their lower OG might stay in the list of candidates, although they might have thrown even more fusels at the higher OG than the one that you just discarded. That's a bit of an uncertainty now. But if you find one of the higher OG yeasts being better than the others at lower OG, then you certainly have found a good candidate!



This is actually true. haven't thought my post through.
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I think either way, whichever of the OG 1.080 batches pass the first screen should probably be redone at OG 1.105, since that would be the only test condition that matters. Having a surplus of batches pass the first screen would be good news in the sense that there's a lot to choose from and bad news in that I'd have a lot of tests to re-run at OG 1.105.

Not much to do for now except wait for the results and probably pass the time making some batches of JAOM so there will be enough left over to age.

Speaking of aging, on the back label of Schramm's "The Statement" mead, it says it takes 5 years to mature! Now there's some fine print for you. Am I really supposed to wait that long before drinking it?

-------------------------------------
 
:off:
Reporting back: I tried Schramm's Raspberry Mead and, to be frank, the raspberry flavor almost completely overwhelms the honey flavor. Consequently, IMHO, it tastes much more like an intense raspberry wine than a mead per se. :eek: Honestly, I expected better! I'd even rate some of my own meads as better tasting than this, and I'm still a noob!

I have two more types of Schramm mead to try, and hopefully at least one or the other will impress.
 
Back to the main topic of the yeast testing: by when do I need to move it off the lees? Some, like 1388, seem to have already flocculated clear enough to read a newspaper, but at the same time they may (?) still be bubbling at a very slow rate. Is a non-changing SG the only reliable guideline for deciding?
 
NeverDie said:
Back to the main topic of the yeast testing: by when do I need to move it off the lees? Some, like 1388, seem to have already flocculated clear enough to read a newspaper, but at the same time they may (?) still be bubbling at a very slow rate. Is a non-changing SG the only reliable guideline for deciding?
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I would say, yes. I wouldn't necesasrily rack them of the lees, only if I would want to bulk age them, or if they would need much more time to clear (or for stabilising). If the mead is clear and FG is stable and no backsweetening and stabilising is necessary, then just bottle!
 

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