The OFFICIAL 11-11-11 Old Ale Thread - The HBT Anniversary Series

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Update:

Racked the beer into secondary today and took a few samples. The beer had a pretty good pellicle forming in the primary.

The gravity dropped from 1.080 to 1.015 and the beer is very tasty as is. The nose is intense cherry with toasty caramel and some typical brett aromas. On the palate it's dark toffee, toast crust, spiced rum, and caramelized sugar. Mouthfeel is a little thin, though not surprising how far it attenuated. No boozy alcohol notes or really any alcohol presense at all... don't know if this is a good thing; I was sort of hoping for something a little more robust.

I am starting to think about oaking this, though I am a little unsure of when to do so and what to use? Any suggestions???

Color is pretty much as I expected, though a little hazy from racking.

100_2708-1.jpg
 
I took my first sample today to see how it was progressing in the secondary. I'll probably leave it alone now until I keg or bottle it.

I brewed this on 11-6 and used oak cubes in the primary for a month. I racked from the primary, leaving the oak behind, to a secondary on 12-6. The gravity was 10.18 then. It is now 1.014. The aroma is all oak at first. The oak aroma is really pleasant even though it is in the foreground. It is a really mature complex cabernet-like aroma. At first I didn't pick up the brett. But after a quick swirl of the glass, the brett poked through and was noticeable throughout. I'm loving this uncarbed and young. :rockin: It is a little too firm of a bitterness right now and I hope that'll mellow out a little despite the falling gravity.

It has a great shiny copper color to it – like a freshly minted penny.

IMG_13201.JPG
 
I just took another gravity sample today. The beer that was at 1.020 mid-December is now at 1.015 so the brett is (or was) definitely fermenting some of the leftover sugars. Color-wise it looks extremely similar to jmo88's. I believe I'm smelling the oak as it smells very similar to a bourbon - just less alcohol. Very nice, actually - not overpowering.

It tastes really, really good. I was skeptical of the beer at first - it just tasted odd when I racked to secondary - but it has really come a long way. It tastes woody up front with a slightly tart malty finish.

I've had this on oak for a couple months now, and I'm debating if I should rack off the oak or not. This is my first oaked beer, so I'm unsure. I only used 1 oz. of medium toast oak cubes. Any suggestions?
 
Alright, you guys are bad influences. I was happy to just let my beer sit and be happy without me bothering it for at least a couple more months. But seeing you guys tasting your beers was too much for me to resist. So I grabbed the thief and had a taste.

Gravity hasn't moved since I racked to secondary but there is a nice pellicle going on. Aroma is very nice. A mixture of subtle, whisky-like oak and cherries. Flavor is very vinuous with a slightly tart, cherry-flavored finish. Slightly sweet with toffee notes coming out on the backend. Slightly tannic oak aftertaste. Alcohol is well hidden and smooth. I'm also getting a hint of apple peel. Appearance is good, nice copper color, like a well-aged whisky. Only thing wrong with the appearance is the floaties from the pellicle that made their way into the glass. Interestingly, it looks like there are a couple rice-sized floaty balls of pellicle.

DSC_4740NEF.jpg
 
Damn, I'm still waiting to brew mine. It's going to happen within the next month, though. Still, it's making me antsy.

Stupid question for you all. My yeast pack is a bit old now. Did you guys make a starter for this yeast, or would doing that throw off the balance of yeasts in the pack? I've heard Wyeast mention before that using some of their lambic blends in consecutive brews will up the souring bugs to the point that heavily soured beers will result from doing this. I have no idea if this blend is at all the same.
 
I wasn't paying attention and missed this one. Is it too late to join in the fun? I can brew this in the next couple weeks and still have 9 months to let it age.
 
GuldTuborg said:
Did you guys make a starter for this yeast, or would doing that throw off the balance of yeasts in the pack? I've heard Wyeast mention before that using some of their lambic blends in consecutive brews will up the souring bugs to the point that heavily soured beers will result from doing this.
Click to expand...
For this blend, I do not think it as much an issue. The Brett will probably not grow in the starter, as the Saccharomyces will take over, but there should still be enough Brett for long term secondary aging. It may just take a month or two longer.

Jess Caudill
Brewer/Microbiologist
Wyeast Laboratories
(541) 354-1335
Click to expand...

:mug:
 
Paramecium, you are welcome to do whatever you want! No one will stop you but you might want to tell folks it isn't as aged or wasn't brewed a year previously.

So far as a starter, I think that was discussed previously somewhere. I just tossed mine in without making a starter (not that I usually do that) and didn't have a problem.

Mine is still making CO2 visibly but much slower than it was even a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure the Brett is what's active now but the CO2 is keeping it from making a pellicle.
 
I think I'll wait till next year and get in at the right time. If I'm going to put that much time into a beer I want it to be right. Also if I start working with Brett I'll designate equipment specifically four sour beers just to have good peace of mind.
 
Could someone please direct me to the post, or the page in this post where the quote from Wyeast can be found. I'm interested in what this yeast brings to the table etc.

And not to thread hijack at all as I'm late to the party but brewing this beer this weekend...

Thanks to all of you for your hard work on the recipe!
 
So here's a dumb question, this being my first brett beer. I'm not ready to bottle, but when I am, do I just punch through the pellicle and rack the beer like always? When I punched through for a gravity sample the pellicle broke up and looked like lots of little chunks in the glass. I'd like my bottles not to have the same chunks floating around.
 
It may fall on its own. But, they will eventually settle out. When you bottle, you'll probably get little pellicles in there. I've never had a problem with them staying in suspension.
 
Barc said:
It may fall on its own. But, they will eventually settle out. When you bottle, you'll probably get little pellicles in there. I've never had a problem with them staying in suspension.
Click to expand...

Do you ever kill the Brett with campden and then bottle with additional yeast? I'm not so sure I want little pellicles in my bottles. I'm planning on giving some to friends who won't know that the "skin" is nothing to worry about.
 
heywolfie1015 said:
Do you ever kill the Brett with campden and then bottle with additional yeast? I'm not so sure I want little pellicles in my bottles. I'm planning on giving some to friends who won't know that the "skin" is nothing to worry about.
Click to expand...

No. I wouldn't want to add campden. Also remember, Sacc will still be alive (if dormant) when you add priming sugar. The pellicle will be present but shouldn't be nearly as dominate / thick due to a) 0 O2 and b) minimal Brett activity for carbonation.

As I said, the little bottle pellicles will fall, especially during transport as the slightest movement causes them to break and fall. It will quickly become part of the trub at the bottom of the bottle. And you can always either tell them or inspect for the little pellicle before giving it to them (btw, flipping the bottle upside down and right side up after about 3 weeks will usually drop them permanently). Education is always better than overworking yourself, at least imo.
 
orangehero said:
Is there any danger of bottle bombs if this is allowed to age for another year in regular bottles?
Click to expand...

There really shouldn't be. There are no bugs in there helping the Brett break things down so when it stops fermenting, it should be done 100%. No idea how long that will take, though. At about 2 months before you bottle, I'd check the gravity then check it once every 2 weeks from there on in just to be safe.
 
Any recommendations about oaking this thing? I have two small batches of this, one I'd like to oak and the other leave alone. I don't have much experience with adding oak cubes/chips, so what would be the best time and method to do so?
 
bierhaus15 said:
Any recommendations about oaking this thing? I have two small batches of this, one I'd like to oak and the other leave alone. I don't have much experience with adding oak cubes/chips, so what would be the best time and method to do so?
Click to expand...

Here is a great thread on the topic. In general, you will want to get oak cubes (as opposed to chips). They are better for aging. How much you use will depend on the size of the batches, but the general rule is 1-2 oz. for five gallons of beer.

As for sanitizing them, it probably won't be a huge deal since you have so much alcohol and already introduced bugs with the Brett. However, I put mine in a small bowl with some water and nuked them for 30 seconds. I then let them cool (covered, of course) to a reasonable temp and dumped straight in, water and all. The smell was fantastic.
 
I think I will put part of an oak spiral soaked in bourbon on half the batch about 2 months prior to bottling.
 
It appears my pellicle has fallen. It never really got thick but the house warmed up the end of last week due to the record Feb highs we had in PA and the brett started going crazy. When the good weather was done the pellicle had broken up and basically disappeared. So either there's no oxygen to form it or it's done. It's been three months and I'll give it another three or so. I guess I could pull a sample to check the gravity next time I'm poking around in the closet.
 
I don't think this was brought up previously: is there an ideal temperature for aging and is there any information on the relationship between temperature and flavor/aroma production by brett?
 
I just pulled my first sample of this tonight, 4 months since brewing.

The color is spot on, rich dark mahogany. The aroma is oak, toffee, and whiskey. The flavor is raisins, dark plums, and sweet toffee with just a touch of brett character.

I never got any kind of pellicle, and I am detecting very little brett presence, but man this beer is good. I cant wait to have it in November when it's got a little age on it, and then throw half the bottles in the closet for another year!!

IMG_4680.JPG
 
IMAG0351.jpg

IMAG0353.jpg


These are pictures from mine today. There are some bubbles from the brett and it appears the cubes have some film over them. I have had them on the cubes for a couple months now. My plan was to leave them on the cubes until october at which time I would keg it. I hope this isnt too much time on the oak.
 
One of my batches of this has a REALLY crazy pellicle growing. I swear it's getting thicker each week, though the other batch has only a thin, flakey film on it.

I'll take some pics tomorrow. The crazy one is freaking me out - never seen anything like it.
 
bierhaus15 said:
One of my batches of this has a REALLY crazy pellicle growing. I swear it's getting thicker each week, though the other batch has only a thin, flakey film on it.

I'll take some pics tomorrow. The crazy one is freaking me out - never seen anything like it.
Click to expand...

Cool. I was hoping for some wicked pellicle on mine, just for aesthetics. It doesn't matter though. Mine is nothing crazy. Just a flaky pellicle with a couple bubbles. This didn't occur until I took a sample though. The pellicle isn't necessary to create brett flavors and it should only show if there is oxygen around.
 
AlphaWolf-Brewery said:
These are pictures from mine today. There are some bubbles from the brett and it appears the cubes have some film over them. I have had them on the cubes for a couple months now. My plan was to leave them on the cubes until october at which time I would keg it. I hope this isnt too much time on the oak.
Click to expand...

I forget where I read it, I think on Stavin's site, that at the six month mark the cubes are full extracted. So once you're past six months it doesn't matter how long you leave them.
 
Here are the pics my two smaller batches. Both are 9097, though one has a pretty crazy pellicle going. The first one looks pretty normal, though the other looks almost like it has some other bug - maybe cross contamination from my other sours?

100_2959.jpg


100_2964.jpg
 
bierhaus15 said:
Here are the pics my two smaller batches. Both are 9097, though one has a pretty crazy pellicle going. The first one looks pretty normal, though the other looks almost like it has some other bug - maybe cross contamination from my other sours?
Click to expand...

Gnarly! I love a good pellicle pic, but never seen brett look like that. Maybe you have something else going on there. It looks like a fluffy layer of cotton. The first
one looks normal though.
 
Nice pics! I'll try to remember to post a pic of mine when I ge home. The pellicle was pretty impressive before I took a sample a couple months ago, but since then it has really gone crazy. I guess I let some oxygen in while taking the sample. Bubbles keep growing to about the size of a large egg, then popping and new ones grow.
 

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