The OFFICIAL 11-11-11 Old Ale Thread - The HBT Anniversary Series

[camiller]

I'm ready for a long brew day this Sunday as well. Good to know you hit the OG without problems.

I'm having a hard time tracking down Amber malt locally, I typically deal with one of the 3 close LHBS. I can get the brown malt but when I asked if they carry Amber, one LHBS directed me to brown (told me it was the same thing), another said "We have amber malt" and showed me some Belgian biscuit, and the other has a bin labeled "Amber/Carastan" (Carastan is actually crystal 35). Ugh, maybe I'll try to put some MO in the oven, but I don't have a mill. It's either that or delay the brew day another week and wait for my grain to ship from BMW.

Browsing the wholesale catalogs my LHBS buys from even the wholesalers say Amber = brown. Wyermann Cara-Amber is claimed to be a biscuit malt.

Edit: some interesting info here: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.brewing/browse_thread/thread/9bdd9e8ac74295af?pli=1

 

[jmo88]

I think I'm going to toast some uncrushed MO or the amber malt per Palmer's advice. I don't have a mill, but if it's only 3/4 lb of malt, I can lay it out and crush it with a rolling pin. Problem solved.

 

[smokinghole]

Only place I found to have amber and brown was BMW. One of the LHBS even told me that biscuit was a swap out for amber I think. Listed as the same SRM almost by beersmith too with almost the same description.

 

[adamjab19]

maybe a dumb question but will the brett in this yeast effect a better bottle? I usaully priamry in a better bottle and then secondary in a glass carboy I have...any suggestions?

I plan on dedicating my auto syphon to this beer.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Only place I found to have amber and brown was BMW. One of the LHBS even told me that biscuit was a swap out for amber I think. Listed as the same SRM almost by beersmith too with almost the same description.

This may have already been mentioned, but Northern Brewer has both the Crisp Amber and Brown as well as the yeast blend. I bought a sack of base malt from the local shop and ordered everything else from them. Planning on brewing this on Monday.

 

[mojotele]

For people in my neck of the woods, Maryland Homebrew has plenty of amber malt. Linky

 

[SCARYLARRY]

maybe a dumb question but will the brett in this yeast effect a better bottle? I usaully priamry in a better bottle and then secondary in a glass carboy I have...any suggestions?

I plan on dedicating my auto syphon to this beer.

I don't think it would. I use buckets for primary and better bottles for secondary. I just plan on soaking everything for a couple of days in starsan when I'm finished.

 

[jmo88]

Brett is more difficult to get rid of. I'd use seperate equipment if you're worried about. The thing that makes Brett different than sac strains is that Brett can form a biofilm that protects the cells from typical cleaning and sanitation methods. Do a search for brettanomyces and biofilm. There are ways to get rid of it but which is worse, soaking your equipment in sodium hydroxide, having a Brett infection, or using seperate equipment?

 

[jmo88]

Also, here is a pdf presentation about brett from Wyeast. They basically tell you not to worry so much about brett and contamination. They do list a caustic cleaner though, which will get rid of it. brett pdf

 

[jmo88]

Weighed out 2oz (even though it says 1.5) of oak for primary fermentation. I also subbed "full flavor" molasses for the treacle. Full flavor is much closer, if not exactly the same, as black treacle. I found the blackstrap to astringent for a sub.

The kettle caramelization yielded over a foot of foam that persisted until I turned it down a bit.

Reduced to a little under a half gallon.

The syrup stuck to the spoon like toffee. The flavor was unbelievable: rich, buttery, with lots of caramel and toffee.

The brew day went well and I got an OG of 1.076. I'm pretty happy with that. I microwaved the oak cubes in a little water, covered with saran, for 5 minutes. I then let it cool and added the liquid and the cubes to the fermentor.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Nice pics!!!!!!!!!

I'm brewing this tomorrow...along with 10 gals of blonde ale!

I too am using "Brer Rabbit Molasses". Will post pics tomorrow afternoon.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Well I brewed this today, along with 10 gallons of blonde ale, as well as kegging two batches. Needless to say, I'm whipped. OG came in at 1.081 (I used the whole bottle of molasses...12oz instead of 8). Color was rich mahogany brown and the brew house smelled wonderfully toasty and biscuity. I am going to have to try the brown malt and amber malt again in something that will be drinkable in less than a year, they smelled awesome!!

I subbed Fuggles for the Target as my local shop didnt have the Target hops. 1.5L old ale blend starter (2 smak paks) pitched, blow off attached. Time for some homebrews!!!

Hopefully you dudes that will get a sample of this in a year will enjoy it.

 

[smokinghole]

I'm going to give mine a shot at brewing on friday next week I think. That way I can plan ahead vs trying to do it sunday. I'd like to do it saturday buy my wife's parents are coming. She still thinks that I need to be around so I can entertain or some BS like that when people visit.

 

[bierhaus15]

Bump.

Going to brew this on Monday, with a few tweaks. Any updates on the how the beer ferments? Slow, fast, estery, ideal temp....?

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Bump.

Going to brew this on Monday, with a few tweaks. Any updates on the how the beer ferments? Slow, fast, estery, ideal temp....?

I pitched a 1.5L starter made with 2 packs of yeast on a stirplate.......it fermented like a damn volcano. In 8 hours I had blowoff rocketing out the carboy. This was at 66F. I must have lost at least half a gallon out the blowoff tube. After 2 days it has settled down and looks like it's done fermenting....but i know that isnt true. It went fast and hard.

 

[jmo88]

I pitched one pack into a 2l starter on a stir plate (yeast was only two days old). The yeast settled hard to the bottom of the flask, but wasn't cheesy like the 1968. BTW, what sacc strain/strains are in this?

I've had a steady fermentation chugging along at 66F for 5 days now and though it isn't at high krausen, it's still burping a lot of co2.

 

[DSMbrewer]

OK Gang,
I made this beer yesterday and the 9097 yeast has gone insane!!!!!!!! I pitched straight from the smack pack last night and this morning I had a clogged blow off tube. still bubbling like a pot of boiling water!! Any suggestions about the wood chips in the secondary? Should I soak in booze or boil in water before I add them, or is the Brett in the yeast gonna make it funky enough that I don't have to worry...any thoughts???

 

[mojotele]

Well, I brewed this one on 10/30. Overall, it went well. I made some boo-boos as usual, though.

The mash went really well. I mashed a bit thicker to try and increase my conversion efficiency (more on this later). I got a bit over 2 gallons for my first runnings, and I took 2 gallons and put it outside to boil down as I warmed the sparge runnings on my stove.

This is where I made a couple mistakes. First, I don't think I boiled the first runnings down enough. I boiled them until it started foaming a whole lot and smelled like it was carmelizing. My spoon test looked like it should be about 2 quarts, but it wasn't very syrupy. It stuck to the spoon a bit but was still quite fluid. Second, I think I measured out a bit too much sparge water. I ended up with more in the kettle than I was expecting - about 0.75 gallons more.

However, I also got a boost in efficiency due to mashing thicker. I was expecting 80% and got about 88%. The result was that I still only had to do a 90 minute boil. But, my beer ended up lighter as a result of my mistakes.

OG was 1.076 after trying to do some correcting using my refractometer during the boil (I actually had to add water to keep from overshooting the OG by a ton). It fermented for 3 days or so - that yeast really went to town. FG was 1.023. I'm going to let it sit in the primary until a month has passed then transfer it for the long ferment with the oak cubes. Here's some pics!

Crushed grains

Mash in

Heating up the first runnings

Sparge runnings on the stove

Treacle measured out

All runnings at a boil

Sample at 2 weeks

 

[Beerbuck]

Just brewed this today, everything went so good but just to know something. I put 2 gallons on the stove to get my syrup and went to do a little shopping and when I got back I had a nice sirup but seemed to be burned a little. The bottom of my kettle was a little burned but the syrup was so tasty, Dunno if the syrup were too cooked and burned, Tasted the beer once finished and cant say if its taste the burn of tasted like smokey and toasted beer similar to a stout? My GF says it tasted a little like a stout.
Did I scrap my beer or its the way it taste? Or the yeast will turn my beer awesome?

 

[jbrookeiv]

Well, I think I'm definitely in. I just upgraded my equipment to be able to handle BIAB, so I am going to buy this as my next kit. I will probably end up brewing it in December at some point. Can't wait!

 

[MarsColonist]

Got this one done yesterday. 11gal batch that 3.5gal of first runnings pulled off and boiled for 3 hours (down to ~1 gal, smelled absolutely awesome); long 3 hr fly sparge. Went with 0.5oz Amer Oak Medium and 0.5oz Amer Oak House cubes per 5 gallons in primary. And I think I used twice as much treacle as I was supposed to.

 

[smokinghole]

Brewed today. I over shot the gravity a bit and ended up with 1.086 but I figured that's not too bad. Weighed an accurate 8oz treacle addition and boiled the 2gallons down to about 1.5qts. When I pulled it off the burner in my kitchen to add back to the batch boiling outside it wouldn't stop boiling it was so thick. The decoction syrup had a great flavor over all everything went well. I had amazing efficiency on this batch I went to 6g from 5.5 due to my gravity and still hit a higher than anticipated OG. I cooled it and will pitch the yeast in an hour or so while it sheds the last few degrees.

Here's a pic of the decoction at syrup stage about 20 min before I added it back.

And here's the color I ended up with

 

[KingBrianI]

Nice! I'm about to rack mine to secondary. I can't wait for the trade next year. There are going to be some really good beers.

 

[smokinghole]

I just have to say one thing. Treacle is a pain in the ass to deal with with it's sitting at 50 degrees. I had to spoon it out almost into a measuring cup on my scale just to have to dunk the whole thing in the kettle to get all the treacle out of the cup. I had syrup strings going all over the place when I first opened the stuff.

I second the anticipation for this trade. I can't wait. I need to talk to a buddy that has a ton of cornys. Once thing thing is done fermenting I'll throw it in one of those to continue bulk aging with the oak so I can use the fermetor for other brews.

 

[AnOldUR]

First running are down from 2 quarts to under 1. Just starting main boil.

All the windows in the house are fogged and it smells great!

(edit: meant to say gallons not quarts)

 

[KingBrianI]

First running are down from 2 quarts to under 1. Just starting main boil.

All the windows in the house are fogged and it smells great!

You got a late start!

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

I'm brewing this tomorrow and am excited. The starter is all ready to go and I lined up a couple of helpers for the additional steps.

 

[jmo88]

I just have to say one thing. Treacle is a pain in the ass to deal with with it's sitting at 50 degrees. I had to spoon it out almost into a measuring cup on my scale just to have to dunk the whole thing in the kettle to get all the treacle out of the cup. I had syrup strings going all over the place when I first opened the stuff.

These are great for things like this:

Just slide it out.

 

[AnOldUR]

First running are down from 2 quarts to under 1.

Oops! That was supposed to be gallons.
Ended with just over two quarts. No scorching.

Gravity's a little high, but all's good. Time for bed.

 

[USMCYoder]

I'm new to HBT and I love the idea of an anniversary and exchanging it with other members (As long as people live in NYC). I was planning on doing a Milk Stout, but I might have to do this one first.

 

[AnOldUR]

Chilled the wort to where I usually do (mid to low 60's) and set fermentation at 63.
Than realized that Wyeast say this yeast should ferment at between 68 and 75 degrees.

What temperatures are those who have this brewed fermenting at?
What was the activity like (need for blow-off)?

A thought for anyone still planning to brew this. It seems like there are several people reporting high OG's. In my case I attribute it to boil-off. I dropped my efficiency in BeerSmith about 10 points because it's a pretty big beer, but didn't think about the extra boil-off brought by boiling down the first runnings and the 90 minut boil. My volume was properly pegged, but I should have left the efficiency alone.



Good luck to everyone who still has this brewday to look forward to. Long but fun!

 

[smokinghole]

I would put a blow off tube on the fermentor. I use a 10g keg and still have blow off set up just in case because the starter was a pretty vigorous fermentation in the flask. This is only my second beer primary fermenting in this keg so I'm not sure if something will eventually blow off or not. I'd rather play it safe the first few days with blow off then move to an airlock.

As for temp mine's not a controlled temp but my house is pretty stable it's in an interior closet and the house sits at around 65 now that it's cooler out.

 

[AnOldUR]

I would put a blow off tube on the fermentor.

Why don't I listen?
Why don't I listen?
Why don't I listen?



Woke up to sticky, messy blow off on the basement floor this morning.
And since I split the batch (8 gallons in two 5 gallon carboys) clean up was twice the fun.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

I just brewed this tonight, hit the OG on the nose. The hydro sample tasted great. Can't wait for the sample at transfer time.

 

[smokinghole]

Why don't I listen?
Why don't I listen?
Why don't I listen?



Woke up to sticky, messy blow off on the basement floor this morning.
And since I split the batch (8 gallons in two 5 gallon carboys) clean up was twice the fun.

Tehehehe. I just removed my blow off and stuck an airlock in there. I love this 10 gallon keg for fermentations.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Looking for some advice on the bulk aging here, I have never aged a beer in the carboy for the projected 8-10 months this one will need.

I racked this into a secondary after a 3 week primary fermentation for bulk aging. I added 1 oz medium toast american oak chips, and put it in the closet to forget about.

After a week undisturbed, another inch or so of yeast has collected on the bottom of the secondary carboy. Can I leave this alone for 8-10 months, or should I rack again to avoid possible autolysis on such a long wait?

Thanks

 

[mojotele]

Went to rack to secondary to oak and do the long brett ferment today. The brett pellicle had already formed in the primary!

Oh noes my beer is infected!!

 

[Barc]

Went to rack to secondary to oak and do the long brett ferment today. The brett pellicle had already formed in the primary!

Oh noes my beer is infected!!

Looks nice! I'm considering leaving it in primary for 6 months and then oaking in smaller batches, leaving a gallon or 2 without oak to see the difference.

 

[smokinghole]

As soon as I have a free fermentor to rack to this thing is moving. I did check on it today and stole a quick sample with a pipette. The gravity from the refrac is showing 1.014 but realistically it is closer to 1.018ish. Seems a bit low considering I hit my 158 mash temp but we'll see. I had no pellicle but then again it has been sitting sealed up in a keg so I don't think there was oxygen to form a pellicle.

The toasty character of this beer rules. I'm sure it will smooth out soon but I might be making this a second time since I got two packages of the yeast. I'm a fan for sure. I need to go pick up another 6 gallon better bottle to transfer this into. My fermentors are all occupied at the moment and I need more to clear up this keg as my primary. I've got beers to brew and not enough space.

 

[sudndeth]

Would it be considered authentic to secondary this in a whiskey barrel instead of oak chips? If that's the case would the brett make the barrel unusable for non-brett beers in the future?