The OFFICIAL 11-11-11 Old Ale Thread - The HBT Anniversary Series

[smokinghole]

The brett would get in the wood and you'd never be able to get rid of it.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

I just transferred this to my secondary and added 3oz of oak cubes. The hydro sample tasted great very toasty and toffee like. It was only down to 1.030 but I am guessing that is because it has been sitting at 52F for the last couple of weeks. I have moved it to a warmer location for its long secondary.

 

[Barc]

I'm glad to see someone else isn't getting a great attenuation with this yeast. At least I'm not alone!

I transferred mine to secondary about a week ago. It was only down to 1.040 after a month in primary (mashed a little high, 162 for 30 mins and 158 for 30 mins)... I had it sitting at about 62 or so but I didn't move it from 67+ until I had no visible krausen. It has not restarted that I can determine as of yet... No pellicle is forming, no activity visible through the airlock (I haven't checked the gravity but I also haven't seen a bubble, krausen, etc...), no anything. I know, I know, recheck the gravity and I will, eventually...

Anyway, I added some amylase enzyme yesterday and haven't seen any difference. I also made a new starter out of some of the trub left over from the original fermentation but it hasn't done much of anything, either, not when compared to the original starter and every other starter I've made (which is in the hundreds at this point). Just in case, I've got a starter of Duvel yeast going that will dry out most things and I have some 3711 I can pull out, as well. If those don't work, Beano to the rescue! Or I could always add my own "house" yeast I captured. I've seen it fermenting at just over freezing and get beers down to 1.000.

Anyone else have an unusually high gravity?

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Im curious if anyone has a pellicle yet.

I brewed this on 11-10-10, transferred it to secondary with 1 oz oaks chips after 3 weeks, and have no pellicle. I'm sure it will come, just curious if anyone has one yet with this blend.

 

[Barc]

All the pellicles I've seen come after only a few weeks, maybe 2 - 3. That's not to say they won't come but I really am wondering if there is something wrong with this yeast... It isn't unheard of for a yeast to not perform properly; recent Nottingham being one that springs to mind. I don't have experience with a true blend, though. I've only brewed with Brett and then blended myself. They've always had a pellicle after only a couple of weeks, though...

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Mine seems to be fermenting actively, very slowly...

Just no pellicle... I'm sure it will form soon enough. Trying to forget about it till next year.......

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

My plan is to wait a couple of months to see if a pellicle has formed and to take a hydro sample. If the gravity hasnt lowered I will pitch a pure smack pack of brett to it.

 

[KingBrianI]

Remember that for a pellicle to form, the beer needs to be exposed to some oxygen. Otherwise the brett will be doing its thing but won't form a pellicle. I left my beer in primary for about a month after the fermentation winded down and it dropped two points in that time. It's in secondary now and the tiniest hint of a pellicle has formed on top. If you guys really want a pellicle, go to the hardware store a buy an oak dowel the diameter of an airlock and stick that in the stopper. It will allow a slow air exchange with the outside environment.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

Brian, what was your gravity at transfer time?

 

[Barc]

I realize how pellicles form. I've done several Brett fermentations now and, generally speaking, even with the airlock bubbling I get at least a tiny, thin pellicle. Is there O2 in there? Probably not a lot. Oak dowels are not necessary as I've seen them in glass with a rubber airlock; I've even seen them in bottles. Also, pellicles do not equal Brett fermentation but presence of O2 in a Bretted environment, just like Brian says.

I'm concerned that something is up with this yeast. As I said earlier, after I pulled the trub and put it into another starter, it hasn't done much of anything which is odd by itself. And I'd expect the Sacc yeast to at least pull this thing down to 1.025 or less. 1.030 and higher is kinda concerning considering the fact there's no Crystal malts in this, even with the high mash temp. And the Brett should pull it down even further at the same time. Maybe after a few more months, if the gravity hasn't moved, I'll be more concerned. But if more folks are saying that their beers are "finishing" high, I think we have a problem.

 

[KingBrianI]

Brian, what was your gravity at transfer time?

Mine was 1.028 at the end of the sacc fermentation and 1.026 a month after. I haven't checked it since but I trust the brett to be slowly pulling it down. I think an FG of somewhere around 1.020 would be awesome. Should still have a little sweetness and body to counter the tartness from the brett and accentuate the malt and toffee flavors. I'm very happy with the gravity progress.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

Alright, so that was pretty close to where mine came in at. I wonder if boiling the first runnings down created some unfermentables, and depending on how much each of us boiled it down we will all have different amounts of unfermentables.

 

[mwhc22]

hmmmm I think I might be in on this one... I convinced three brother to start brewing and they went wild and already blew more cash in a month than i have in the last 4 years!

Anywho I bet I can convince them to do a big batch out at there house... so we should have 3-4 versions of the 11/11/11

 

[Barc]

I had planned to use oak only on part of mine, Bourbon'ed oak on another part, put a different toasted oak into another part, and then leave the last part without any modifications.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

I just racked over the 3oz of oak cubes in mine and now they are all floating. I am hoping it gives the brett something to munch on.

 

[mojotele]

Im curious if anyone has a pellicle yet.

I brewed this on 11-10-10, transferred it to secondary with 1 oz oaks chips after 3 weeks, and have no pellicle. I'm sure it will come, just curious if anyone has one yet with this blend.

*cough*

 

[mojotele]

I also just pulled a sample. Gravity is 1.020. I just realized, however, that I've been forgetting to adjust for the error in my hydrometer the past few times I've used it. So, I'm not sure if my gravity after sacc fermentation finished was 1.023 or 1.021. It tastes slightly tart and fruity with a bit of caramel.

The pellicle hasn't reformed in secondary. I will say, though, that it has been off-gassing. There are medium sized bubbles on the surface, and I saw some airlock activity every so often in the past. The temperature has remained rather constant. There's also a small amount of caked stuff just about the surface of the beer - much like there is after krausen recedes.

So, while I can't say for sure that there's been brett fermentation, I strongly suspect that there has. I don't know, seems like things are going along just fine to me.

 

[Barc]

I don't even have bubbles on the surface. Nothing to indicate anything is happening. I'll recheck the gravity tonight if I get time. If it hasn't moved, I'll pitch another yeast. I've got plenty of Brett lying around but I'm not 100% sure what kind of Brett Wyeast uses in this blend. Pie cherry isn't a flavor that most Brett is famous for.

I'm glad at least one of us is having some luck with this yeast.

 

[smokinghole]

I'm hoping to transfer mine tonight. I have to finish a two tier shelf that will fit in my closet allowing me to keep more fermentors. I have a second that will be aged six months along with this beer. As soon as I get the shelf in I will transfer, I wonder if I even have a pellicle?

 

[smokinghole]

Got my transfer complete. When I popped the top I could SMELL the acetic acid. According to my refrac which tends to read lower than a hydo I'm at 1.012.

Here's the pic I took about a month ago.

Here's from today.

My taste of it from the pipette was a bit thin and it was slightly tart. I will give it a while in the carboy and possibly and some dextrin later on to return body to the beer. I sort of wish I had the problem some of you guys have with real high gravity. Mine dropped like crazy.

 

[SCARYLARRY]

Brewed mine on 10/17 and racked it tonight to secondary. My reading was 1.020 and the sample tasted GREAT, could not believe how the color has changed. Looks like my britt is doing a good job.

 

[AlphaWolf-Brewery]

Got my transfer complete. When I popped the top I could SMELL the acetic acid. According to my refrac which tends to read lower than a hydo I'm at 1.012.

Here's the pic I took about a month ago.

Here's from today.

My taste of it from the pipette was a bit thin and it was slightly tart. I will give it a while in the carboy and possibly and some dextrin later on to return body to the beer. I sort of wish I had the problem some of you guys have with real high gravity. Mine dropped like crazy.

How much of the first runnings did you boil down and for how long? I boiled just under two gallons for about 2 hours. It got very thick and stuck to the spoon. I wonder if this would give more unfermentables to the wort.

 

[SCARYLARRY]

I boiled two gallons down till it was a syrup that would barley come off my brew spoon and my sample wasn't thin bodied at all.

 

[Barc]

you shouldn't have acetic without acetobacter... brett doesn't produce it as far as i know.

 

[jmo88]

you shouldn't have acetic without acetobacter... brett doesn't produce it as far as i know.

+1

i think it's easily confused by some people though. Not to say he didn't get acetobacter in there somehow, but not all sours are the same. A lactic sour can be great, for instance. Aceto is pretty gross and brett shouldn't be producing it.

 

[maskednegator]

Brett can absolutely produce acetic acid.
http://www.brettanomycesproject.com/dissertation/introduction/
Paragraph 3.

 

[TheGeek]

Is it too late to get in on this?!? Maybe I could do a 1-11-11 for 11-11-11?? hehe.

 

[jmo88]

Brett can absolutely produce acetic acid.
http://www.brettanomycesproject.com/dissertation/introduction/
Paragraph 3.

Wow, what a cool site! Don't believe everything you hear, I guess. I never pick up what I believe to be aceto, but if it is produced when it metabolizes acetaldehyde, then it must occur in every brett beer. Although it might be below my threshold.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Beer_Maker]

Is it too late to get in on this? Still have about 11 months to let her sit.

 

[smokinghole]

How much of the first runnings did you boil down and for how long? I boiled just under two gallons for about 2 hours. It got very thick and stuck to the spoon. I wonder if this would give more unfermentables to the wort.

I boiled the 2 gallons down as far as I could get it with out burning. I would get one drip off the spoon until it cooled to the point it wouldn't drip at all. It was verging on caramel consistency.

Good to see a number of other people resolved the acetic acid question.

 

[maskednegator]

Wow, what a cool site! Don't believe everything you hear, I guess. I never pick up what I believe to be aceto, but if it is produced when it metabolizes acetaldehyde, then it must occur in every brett beer. Although it might be below my threshold.

Thanks for posting that.

Don't get me wrong, the only time I've ever personally gotten perceptible acetic acid from brett is when I've tasted decanted starters. I'm just saying that it's definitely within the realm of possibility to get it in other circumstances.

 

[Haputanlas]

Sweet, I will be a little late on starting this though. I will probably brew this in the coming weeks.

 

[sigsegv]

I brewed this on 11-26 and just racked to secondary on 12-28. O.G. was 1.082 and S.G. the last 10 days was stuck at 1.020. So it appears the sacch has done about all that it's going to do. I'm surprised it attenuated out as much as it has since I pitched a bit too warm and then thought I'd killed it for the next several days. I didn't get any big fermentation signs out of this one for the duration. It just did its work slow and silent.

I started with about 2.25 gallons of first runnings in a 5 gallon pot and only boiled it down to about 3 quarts. It's amazing how much it foams up once it starts to reduce down.

 

[DSMbrewer]

My batch went NUTS!!!!!!!!!Damn near blew the lid off my ferment bucket! It's tough walkin past the carboy every day......I"ve sampled twice to see how it's coming along....VEWY big beer~!

 

[heywolfie1015]

Is it too late to get in on this? Still have about 11 months to let her sit.

Do it!

 

[smokinghole]

Do it x2. It'll add a complexity to the trade. Some will half a full year some will have less.

 

[bierhaus15]

I brewed two batches of this, one with the Old Ale strain w/brett and another with wy1469. Should be interesting to compare the two come trading time.

 

[KingBrianI]

Mine is wearing a nice pellicle now. Went out of town for a couple weeks and I guess the brett decided to have fun.

 

[Barc]

Mine restarted about 2 weeks later enough to visibly notice and is still going. No pellicle but it is in a carboy and tightly sealed so it may not get much of one for a while.

 

[AnOldUR]

Finally moved mine from primary to secondary (w/ oak) last night after 48 days. A small amount of pellicle had started to form and added a nice flavor to the sample. Gravity dropped from 1.084 to 1.026. The Brett should complete the job, but this has all the signs of a great beer just the way it is.

I put 5-1/2 gallons in a six-gallon carboy for the 11-11-11 debut, but have another 2-1/2 gallons in a three-gallon carboy that I hope is good for a late spring warmer.