loveofrose
Well-Known Member
I connect the spigot to a tube and run the tube into the new vessel. Turn it on a come back later!
I tend to top off every 2-4 weeks depending on temperatures.
Do ya hit ur mead with any chemicals b4 barrel aging? (Same thing 4 trials?)Extra mead of course! That’s why the batch is bigger than I need.
[emoji111]Nope.
2 Week Taste Comparison
Tasting are performed side by side with exactly the same glass type (glencairn) at room temperature.
First, we must identify the components of a true barrel aged flavor.
Barrel Aged Mead
-Nose: Oaky, honey, sweetness
-Taste: Vanilla, honey, trace smoke. Drying effect on finish from tannins. Of course, it needs more oak for a fuller flavor and body.
-Body: Improved but needs more time.
Cubes
-Nose: Musty oak, honey, sweet
-Taste: Very trace oak, but musty. Honey. No smoke. Some tannins.
-Body: Some increased body but very little.
Xoakers
-Nose: Oaky (slightly less than barrel), honey, sweet
-Taste: Trace vanilla, honey, smoke. Tannins present but needs more.
-Body: Improved, similar to barrel at this point.
Vanilla Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Honey, sweetness, noticeably absent oak
-Taste: Vanilla, No smoke, very mild oak notes.
-Body: Some improvement, less than barrel at this time.
Fruit Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Tartness, honey
-Taste: Adds a tartness, but it’s a bit strange. No oak noticeable. Honey. Tannins definitely present. It would compliment a berry mead much better than a traditional.
-Body: Improved, but not as much as the barrel.
Combined Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Trace oak, honey.
-Taste: Taste like I combined them. Tart fruit flavor is still at odds with this mead. The vanilla makes it better by providing a counterpoint and some oak, but still off.
-Body: Improved but not as good as barrel.
Takeaway
It’s hard to describe oak flavor. While vanilla is one component, it’s so much more than that. I could get into chemical compounds, but let’s keep it simple. I get 3 real components of a barrel flavor:
1. Vanilla
2. Enhancing flavors (smoke, vanilla-like compounds that give a more satisfying sensation than pure vanilla)
3. Tannins (body, mouthfeel, thickness)
With the above criteria, I rate each as follows:
-Cubes lack everything compared to a barrel.
-Xoakers give 2 and some 3, but lack 1.
-Liquid Tannin Vanilla gives 1 and some 3, but lacks 2.
-Liquid Tannin Fruit is just not suitable for this purpose at all. It is more of a fruit Tannin enhancer rather than a Barrel Mimic.
-Combined Liquid tannins maybe useful in fruit, but is just strange here.
My take away at this point is to combine Xoakers and Liquid Tannin Vanilla as a suitable Barrel Mimic. For a fruit mead, maybe add Liquid Tannin Fruit as well. I don’t imagine the Liquid Tannins will improve further, but the Xoakers should.
Keep in mind this is 2 weeks in. My barrel aging sweet spot is generally somewhere between 2-4 months depending on temperature fluctuations. I like big oak, but prefer to stop before bourbon notes become apparent.
Cheers until the next time point in 2 weeks!
What changed? In your OP you described the oak cubes as "Tried and true". Now they seem to be worthless.
What changed? In your OP you described the oak cubes as "Tried and true". Now they seem to be worthless.
@loveofrose
Did you weigh the cubes?
Did you boil them?
Oak flavor varies by product, nationality, toast level, toast method, preparation, time/amount ... Lots of variables.
It does vary in my experience.YMMV
At this time point, they are inferior to Xoakers. The “best” is actually the “best of what you have”. Xoakers and Liquid Tannin didn’t exist before. Also, I stated the cubes were lacking in the OP.
Thanks -- good stuff! [emoji111]2 Week Taste Comparison
Tasting are performed side by side with exactly the same glass type (glencairn) at room temperature.
First, we must identify the components of a true barrel aged flavor.
Barrel Aged Mead
-Nose: Oaky, honey, sweetness
-Taste: Vanilla, honey, trace smoke. Drying effect on finish from tannins. Of course, it needs more oak for a fuller flavor and body.
-Body: Improved but needs more time.
Cubes
-Nose: Musty oak, honey, sweet
-Taste: Very trace oak, but musty. Honey. No smoke. Some tannins.
-Body: Some increased body but very little.
Xoakers
-Nose: Oaky (slightly less than barrel), honey, sweet
-Taste: Trace vanilla, honey, smoke. Tannins present but needs more.
-Body: Improved, similar to barrel at this point.
Vanilla Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Honey, sweetness, noticeably absent oak
-Taste: Vanilla, No smoke, very mild oak notes.
-Body: Some improvement, less than barrel at this time.
Fruit Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Tartness, honey
-Taste: Adds a tartness, but it’s a bit strange. No oak noticeable. Honey. Tannins definitely present. It would compliment a berry mead much better than a traditional.
-Body: Improved, but not as much as the barrel.
Combined Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Trace oak, honey.
-Taste: Taste like I combined them. Tart fruit flavor is still at odds with this mead. The vanilla makes it better by providing a counterpoint and some oak, but still off.
-Body: Improved but not as good as barrel.
Takeaway
It’s hard to describe oak flavor. While vanilla is one component, it’s so much more than that. I could get into chemical compounds, but let’s keep it simple. I get 3 real components of a barrel flavor:
1. Vanilla
2. Enhancing flavors (smoke, vanilla-like compounds that give a more satisfying sensation than pure vanilla)
3. Tannins (body, mouthfeel, thickness)
With the above criteria, I rate each as follows:
-Cubes lack everything compared to a barrel.
-Xoakers give 2 and some 3, but lack 1.
-Liquid Tannin Vanilla gives 1 and some 3, but lacks 2.
-Liquid Tannin Fruit is just not suitable for this purpose at all. It is more of a fruit Tannin enhancer rather than a Barrel Mimic.
-Combined Liquid tannins maybe useful in fruit, but is just strange here.
My take away at this point is to combine Xoakers and Liquid Tannin Vanilla as a suitable Barrel Mimic. For a fruit mead, maybe add Liquid Tannin Fruit as well. I don’t imagine the Liquid Tannins will improve further, but the Xoakers should.
Keep in mind this is 2 weeks in. My barrel aging sweet spot is generally somewhere between 2-4 months depending on temperature fluctuations. I like big oak, but prefer to stop before bourbon notes become apparent.
Cheers until the next time point in 2 weeks!
Good stuff - thanks for efforts & updates!1 Month Taste Comparison
Tasting are performed side by side with exactly the same glass type (glencairn) at room temperature.
Barrel Aged Mead
-Nose: Strong Oak, honey, sweetness
-Taste: Vanilla, honey, trace smoke. Drying effect on finish from tannins. Oak is approaching balance. More vanilla than last time.
-Body: Much improved but needs a wee bit more time.
Cubes
-Nose: Musty oak, honey, sweet
-Taste: Light vanilla. Honey. No smoke. Some tannins.
-Body: Some increased body.
Xoakers
-Nose: Oaky but smells hollow compared to Barrel, honey, sweet. Some mustyness.
-Taste: Trace vanilla, honey, smoke. Tannins present but needs more. Lacks the depth of a barrel.
-Body: Improved, hollow compared to barrel.
Vanilla Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Honey, sweetness, noticeably absent oak
-Taste: Vanilla, No smoke, very mild oak notes.
-Body: Some improvement, lot less than barrel at this time.
Fruit Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Tartness, honey
-Taste: Adds a tartness, this has integrated quite nicely. No oak noticeable but it’s quite pleasant. Honey. Tannins definitely present. I take back saying it would compliment a berry mead much better than a traditional. It has no resemblance to mimicking an oak barrel however.
-Body: Improved, but not as much as the barrel.
Combined Liquid Tannin
-Nose: Trace oak, honey.
-Taste: Nice vanilla with a bit of tartness. Now that some more integration time has occurred, this is way better together than apart. It has no resemblance to mimicking an oak barrel however.
-Body: Improved but not as good as barrel.
Takeaway
It’s hard to describe oak flavor. While vanilla is one component, it’s so much more than that. I could get into chemical compounds, but let’s keep it simple. I get 3 real components of a barrel flavor:
1. Vanilla
2. Enhancing flavors (smoke, vanilla-like compounds that give a more satisfying sensation than pure vanilla)
3. Tannins (body, mouthfeel, thickness)
With the above criteria, I rate each as follows:
-Cubes lack everything compared to a barrel.
-Xoakers give 2 and some 3, but lack 1. Still lacks everything compared to a barrel.
-Liquid Tannin Vanilla gives 1 and some 3, but lacks 2. Still lacks everything compared to a barrel.
-Liquid Tannin Fruit is just not suitable for a Barrel Mimic. It is suitable for adding an acidity however.
-Combined Liquid tannins is actually quite good now. It just doesn’t resemble a barrel.
I still contend using both Xoakers and Liquid Tannin Vanilla would make for a suitable Barrel Mimic, but I would triple the number of Xoakers I add. It’s nowhere even close to the quality of a barrel at this time point, but far better than adding nothing.
The Fruit Enhancer Liquid Tannin actually serves better for providing a rather neutral acidity not attributable to any fruit. That is definitely going in the tool box!
At 1 month, all of these are improvements over no oak, but the barrel is far superior at this point. I may need to retest with a combination of treatments to really get to a barrels level. I’m thinking of adding more Xoakers with the Liquid Vanilla. We will see. I feel 2 months is all that will be necessary for the barrel.
Cheers until the next time point in 1 month!
Takeaway
Bottom Line: Xoakers with Vanilla Liquid Tannin would be my recommended barrel mimic. Perhaps up the dose of Xoakers.
What would your recommendation be for dosage? 3 spheres and 3 ml liquid per gallon?
Xoakers are a single use item? (3months soak)I am testing 4 Xoakers and 3.7 ml per gallon in batches now. My feeling is that it will be pretty close to a barrel, but we will see.
I am testing 4 Xoakers and 3.7 ml per gallon in batches now. My feeling is that it will be pretty close to a barrel, but we will see.
Xoakers are a single use item? (3months soak)
I am testing 4 Xoakers and 3.7 ml per gallon in batches now. My feeling is that it will be pretty close to a barrel, but we will see.
My standard protocol now (when it can’t go in a barrel) is as follows per gallon:
1. Standard Meads: 3 Xoaker Med+ American Oak and 3 ml Toasted Oak Liquid Tannin - Vanilla aging for 2-3 months.
2. Melomel: Same as above, but add 3 ml Toasted Oak Liquid Tannin - Fruit Enhancer
Depending on the mead, I may change things a bit. Above is a good starting point. You can always add a bit less and add more later if needed.
Wondering if you tested....if ya double the # of xoakers used does the req'd soak time get cut in half?Yes, it’s for post fermentation. Yeast can breakdown vanillin in primary fermentation, so I wouldn’t suggest adding there.
I only reuse the Xoakers to smoke meat!
Wondering if you tested....if ya double the # of xoakers used does the req'd soak time get cut in half?
Cheers[emoji111]
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