Sweet taste to all my beers

[GuiriCule]

Hi,

I have been doing all grain brewing by BIAB method for a few months now and I seem to always create an off flavour that I don't recognize. It is a sweet background taste and at first I though I had under hopped but it exists (in different quantities) in all the beers I have made.

I am pretty sure that my fermentation temperature is too high (am in the process of sorting that problem out) which would probably cause lots of Esters which are sweet tasting, however, these are always described as fruit-like and the sweetness I am getting does not resemble any type of fruit.

I know it's difficult to find out exactly what this taste is, especially because my description is not very good (I have no experience in tasting different flaws in beers therefore do not recognize the tastes) but can anyone give me some advice on how to find out what this flavour is?

Many thanks.

 

[eltorrente]

Can you give a list of grains that you used?

Would you describe the sweetness as a caramel-like sweetness?

 

[unionrdr]

Ok,1st of all,fruity esters are a non-descript fruity sweetness. That is to say,it's fruit-like without tasting like any particular fruit. that comes from some yeasts naturally,like Cooper's ale yeast,being English derived & natural to English ales. other yeast produce fruity esters from higher than ideal brew temps.
Having said that,a bit of sweetness can come from using Crystal malts &/or carapils in the grain bill. Or adding maltodextrin or lactose. So def limit how much crystal malts you use,not to mention carapils.

 

[duboman]

Too high a fermentation temperature as stated will produce higher levels of esters in the finished product which could be one issue for sure.

Second, too high a mash temperature will produce a fuller bodied, sweeter finish to a beer as well. If your beer has not been fully attenuating and finishing higher than anticipated you are probably mashing higher than you think. You need a reliable, properly calibrated thermometer for your brewing process to ensure that you are mashing at the correct temperature and getting full attenuation of the yeast, otherwise you are left with a sweeter than desired finished product.

 

[eltorrente]

What temp do you typically mash at?

What are the typical FG readings of your beers?

What temperature do you usually ferment at? - meaning beer temperature, not ambient

What thermometer are you using? As duboman said, a properly calibrated thermometer is really important for mashing. You should buy a calibrated digital thermometer - they are fairly cheap, and worth every penny.

 

[GuiriCule]

Wow, you guys are great!! Thanks to all of you.

Eltorrente: Thank you for replying: It's not a malty sweetness at all. One of the beers was a strawberry and it took over the taste of the strawberry. I have done some other brews and the taste is still there just not as strong as the strawberry one. I am thinking that as I added the fruit after the fermentation was done, the extra sugars started a second fermentation (again at too high a temperature) and created even more esters. Is this viable?

Unionrdr: Thanks for taking the time to respond. A non-descript fruity sweetness sounds delicious, unfortunately the taste I get isn't as pleasant as that sounds but I am sure from your description that it can only be esters that are causing the problem.

Duboman: Thanks for your reply. With regards to the fermenting temperature, I am not controlling it very well and that's why I thought of esters before anything else, but my mashing temperature is quite good all the way through (although I made some big mistakes at the beginning), the stove I am using is very good at keeping a regular temperature.

 

[GuiriCule]

Typically I mash at 65C 149F and I use a fairly decent thermometer, its new but analogue rather than digital.

I am fairly close on both OG and FG (normally the FG is closer to target) but nothing too worrying (I think)
Target OG: 1.048 FG: 1.012
Actual OG 1.045 FG 1.011

Same story with the other beers never quite spot on with the OG but close and sometimes exact for the FG.

Fermenting temp (I am embarrassed to say) is harder for me as I live in Spain and have no air conditioning but usual air temp (I know I should measure wort temp) is 21-22C 70-71 F Which would mean the wort is a few degrees hotter than this during fermentation - this is why I was thinking fermentation temp. may be the reason). I Am using either Safale US 05 or Safale s 04.

 

[LovesIPA]

Those numbers look fine to me.

What temp are you actually fermenting at? Keep in mind that if the room is 20C, the beer is actually fermenting at 22 or 23 because fermentation produces heat.

Also my light beers had a sweet taste for them that I didn't care for at all but my dark beers came out fine. Turns out my water was good for brewing dark beers but not so good for light beers. I had to start using RO water and adding brewing salts.

 

[GuiriCule]

LovesIPA - Thanks, you may be on to something there. I am using bottled water which may be low on calcium (as far as I remember this is not good for light ales, but I am not very good with water stuff so I am probably wrong). I did an extract IPA (with crystal 60) and this didn't have the sweet, weird taste possibly because the DME already has the right amount of minerals in it. Am I on the right track?

 

[LovesIPA]

You could be. If you don't have Palmer's book "How to Brew" you can find the first edition for free online and there is a good section in there on water chemistry. I had to read it a few times to understand it. There's also a spreadsheet (if you have excel) called Bru n water that a lot of people use. I just use a simple excel spreadsheet that I made that tells me what my mineral count is if I dissolve X amount of CaSO4 into Y amount of water. It works for me.

 

[AByne]

GuiriCule did you ever resolve this issue. I seem to be experiencing the same thing and cannot figure out the cause.

 

[VikeMan]

GuiriCule did you ever resolve this issue. I seem to be experiencing the same thing and cannot figure out the cause.

GuitiCule hasn't logged on in over 6 years. Here's another, more recent thread you might find helpful...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/strange-sweetness-i-get-occasionally.679898/

 

[AByne]

VikeMan, Thank you for your help. I looked at the thread but I'm pretty sure oxidation is not my issue. I have a Spike conical and use a closed pressure transfer method to a keg. I also have a glycol chiller to control my fermentation and normally preform a D-rest during fermentation.

I have been doing a lot of searching regarding this issue any have not find the solution yet. This doesn't happen to all my brews but it seems to happen maybe 25% of the time. This also happens when I brew different styles and with different grain builds (Wheat Ales, IPA, APA, Cream Ales, Ambers, etc..). My FG is around 75-80% attenuation and I primarily use US-05 yeast. I'm thinking it is either the US-05 yeast or my water. The next batch is a lager so ill see if the yeast makes a difference or not.

 

[bracconiere]

well, i am still actively working on myself.....and oxidation was just a suggestion to me....


now i'm thinking about oxidized crystal malt? sounds like your brew system is fancier then mine, but i just store my crystal malts out in the open?