Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[Nate R]

OK....got me an aeration system......just the typical stone with a hose and a tank....

Here's my NEW thoughts on method.....why not aerate in the boil kettle after chilling then transfer directly into the blowoff port on the Conical to keep you from having to use the top 4" port?

I dont know honestly.
My guess? With the boil kettle its open and exposed more. More chance for bugs? Plus sometimes i wont cool to my pitch temps, so i transfer to cf5, purge it 3-4x, add 5# co2, let it cool until pitch temps. Then pitch yest then add oxygen. (Or vice-versa).

 

[TNTgill]

I used 3 or 4 gallons of water in a 7 gallon water cooler with 20lbs of ice and 2 gallon jugs frozen. I swapped out the Frozen jugs every 8 hours or so. I only held it at that temp for 24 hours and it was tough. It's a cf5

You got to 37 with just ice water??!! I tried but only got to 40, could only maintain about 42.
May i ask:
-What size cf? 5 or 10 gallon?
-what did you use to hold the water?
- how much water?
- how much ice and what size did u use?
-how often would u have to change the ice?

Thanks.
I used about 2gallons of water, frozen gallon water bottles, and about 5 pounds of large ice chunks. I would swap every 8 hours or so.

Also- for your heater- that does not sound right. Contact @SpikeBrewing for help. So far they have been awesome for me, and i hear good things about them.

Good luck & thank you!

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

It’s Friday night and the CF5 is getting a bath.

 

[Nate R]

View attachment 637452
It’s Friday night and the CF5 is getting a bath.

All shined up... hopefully she gets a nice night out!!!

 

[Stand]

After installing my giant sight glass under my conical I'm a little conscerned that my racking arm wont reach far down enough to get every bit of beer off the yeast/trub cake at the bottom......especially after harvesting yeast. Has anyone had trouble racking off all their beer?

I don't have the sight glass, but even without it I have increased my batch size to 10.5G. I might go to 11 for beers I intend to harvest yeast and big IPAs due to loss.

I REALLY want that sight glass, but I will probably need to increase more for that as well.

 

[mongoose33]

After installing my giant sight glass under my conical I'm a little conscerned that my racking arm wont reach far down enough to get every bit of beer off the yeast/trub cake at the bottom......especially after harvesting yeast. Has anyone had trouble racking off all their beer?

You're overthinking this, IMO.

Any time we move from a basic BK with a simple plastic fermenter to a system involving pumps and conicals and such, there are going to be losses.

On my CF10, I have the racking arm pointing all the way down. Now, I'm not doing hop bombs with all sorts of hop trub and cold break and other stuff in there, but IMO the sight glass actually serves to provide a reservoir to get the gunk down below the level of the beer.

Because I'm using pumps and a RIMS system, and with losses in the mash tun dead space, in the hoses, in the gunk remaining in the BK, with the conical and so on, I've bumped my recipes up 10 percent to account for that. It's just the cost for having a more flexible and capable system. That's how it is.

*****

I know that early on, you're not sure what you can and cannot do, so you're not sure where you can put the racking arm.

Try this: Set the system up w/ the sight glass and racking arm, then add a gallon of water to it. Lid off. See where the racking arm is in relation to the water, and you'll have a better idea as to whether you're above the yeast and trub. If you plan to harvest yeast, you'll draw off maybe a quart, so you can factor that in, too.

When I rack to kegs, what I do is attach racking tubing to a camlock fitting on the racking valve. It could also just be a tube with no connection on the out side. Then I'll run a little beer out that line to clear any trub that is in the racking arm (and there will be a little no matter what direction it points). When that clears--maybe a cup or so of beer at fast velocity--then I proceed to racking to the keg.

It'll depend what fittings you're using as to how you do this. My connection is made with this:



I often use this (available from brewhardware) in the OUT QD and it allows me to squirt beer out the end; it opens up the QD. That also lets me clear the tubing of air so when it goes into the fermenter, the line is purged.

 

[itsnotrequired]

When I rack to kegs, what I do is attach racking tubing to a camlock fitting on the racking valve. It could also just be a tube with no connection on the out side. Then I'll run a little beer out that line to clear any trub that is in the racking arm (and there will be a little no matter what direction it points). When that clears--maybe a cup or so of beer at fast velocity--then I proceed to racking to the keg.

It'll depend what fittings you're using as to how you do this. My connection is made with this:

View attachment 637514

I often use this (available from brewhardware) in the OUT QD and it allows me to squirt beer out the end; it opens up the QD. That also lets me clear the tubing of air so when it goes into the fermenter, the line is purged.

View attachment 637515

i do the exact same thing re: racking arm/tubing/qd jumper post. not only does it purge the racking tubing and runoff trub in the arm, it is a great way to see if any hops floated up in there that will inevitably clog the posts on the keg. before i had a racking arm, i would often get a bit of hops with hoppy beers, clogging the keg posts. had to take it apart, totally defeating the closed-transfer capabilities.

 

[Jag75]

@mongoose33 . With the racking arm pointed down it's not sticking in the trub and whatnot?

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

@mongoose33 . With the racking arm pointed down it's not sticking in the trub and whatnot?

It depends on much trub and whatnot you've got, and how much you dumped/harvested, if you did. I think that's kind of the point of the racking arm. I just racked a porter that wasn't a hop-bomb but just had a ton of yeast and trub and all - was OG 1.063, and I had to have the racking arm nearly horizontal. On the other hand I did a pretty light lager recently and the racking arm was pointing straight down with clear beer flowing.

 

[mongoose33]

@mongoose33 . With the racking arm pointed down it's not sticking in the trub and whatnot?

Not on mine. But I'm not dumping in 15 ounces of hops or whatnot, so if that were the case, perhaps.

I became less concerned about all this when I remembered what the trub layer looked like in my bigmouth bubblers:



In neither case was I close to a gallon; around 1/2 gallon as it turned out. I'd typically fill that fermenter to 5.5 gallons with the presumption that I'd lose that last half-gallon.

This is why, if you put a gallon of water in the conical and just see how close you're coming to the racking arm, you will, I think, be more sanguine about the racking arm position.

 

[Beardless]

Made 10 gal of pale ale with a bunch of trub from the boil and 4 oz of dry hops. I started with the racking arm up and as I transferred moved it down. It ended up fully down with little trub transfer. I also do a trub dump toward the end of fermentation. I also did an IPA previously with very little trub carryover with the arm down. I have a CF10 for comparison.

 

[Stand]

@mongoose33 . With the racking arm pointed down it's not sticking in the trub and whatnot?

It also depends on the yeast A LOT. Flocculent yeasts pack into the cone really tightly and sink lower. If you use a powdery yeast you'll probably need to adjust a lot.

I usually just point the arm straight up for the first keg, and then slowly turn it down as I'm transfering to the second keg until I start to get a little yeast.

I've only had it once, but I'd love to have a better solution to dealing with hop mass in conical. I was considering something like this: https://www.amazon.com/DERNORD-Sanitary-Gasket-Stainless-Screen/dp/B07TCBS666/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=tri+clamp+gasket+1.5+stainless&qid=1564318009&s=gateway&sr=8-3&th=1

I had it clog my keg post last time I made an IPA, so I'm thinking that or a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Strainer-Cartridge-Homebrew-Fashionclubs/dp/B07B2S94FT/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=stainless+steel+hop+spider&qid=1564318276&s=gateway&sr=8-7&th=1

Even with dumping, it just takes so little hop debris to clog a post. I'm curious what other people are doing?

 

[Jag75]

@Stand - that first link is a good idea. Your talking about putting that on the racking arm section to filter out hops right ? Do you cold crash at all ? I hear doing that will drop all the hop sludge . I haven't cold crashed yet . I've always put my hops in large paint strainer bags . My next IPA I will cold crash so I wont use bags . Hopefully it works because dealing with hop particles are a pain .

 

[mongoose33]

It also depends on the yeast A LOT. Flocculent yeasts pack into the cone really tightly and sink lower. If you use a powdery yeast you'll probably need to adjust a lot.

I usually just point the arm straight up for the first keg, and then slowly turn it down as I'm transfering to the second keg until I start to get a little yeast.

I've only had it once, but I'd love to have a better solution to dealing with hop mass in conical. I was considering something like this: https://www.amazon.com/DERNORD-Sanitary-Gasket-Stainless-Screen/dp/B07TCBS666/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=tri+clamp+gasket+1.5+stainless&qid=1564318009&s=gateway&sr=8-3&th=1

I had it clog my keg post last time I made an IPA, so I'm thinking that or a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Strainer-Cartridge-Homebrew-Fashionclubs/dp/B07B2S94FT/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=stainless+steel+hop+spider&qid=1564318276&s=gateway&sr=8-7&th=1

Even with dumping, it just takes so little hop debris to clog a post. I'm curious what other people are doing?

I used to use a jumper like this to transfer beer:



What I found was that it was prone to clogging. So I changed to using this:



Like so:



The second approach hasn't yet clogged on me (crossing fingers). I don't know why--I'm guessing the pressure, when I clear/purge the line and the racking arm, is better able to blow out any debris past the poppets in the QD. And I've found it transfers the beer quite a bit faster.

 

[mongoose33]

I had it clog my keg post last time I made an IPA, so I'm thinking that or a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Strainer-Cartridge-Homebrew-Fashionclubs/dp/B07B2S94FT/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=stainless+steel+hop+spider&qid=1564318276&s=gateway&sr=8-7&th=1

One thing to be aware of with these tube strainers:

I have one, have used it several times in my CF10 while fermenting 5-gallon batches. I kept being confused by what looked like hops at the top of the tube, then I figured it out: with a 5-gallon batch, the tube doesn't submerge all the way, leaving about 3 inches sticking above the liquid level.

I would put 3 ounces of hops in the tube, and always there were hops at the top that didn't turn to that pea-green mush that they usually end up as. The tube simply didn't submerge enough.

I'm sure with a 10-gallon batch it would be fine, but then, 3 ounces of hops is about all that it can handle (maybe 4).

So if you're brewing 5-gallon batches in a CF10, be aware of this. If you're using a CF5, make sure that it will submerge enough especially if you're using the cooling coils.

 

[NeoBrew]

mongoos33, that is a great setup. I think I have enough pieces to make one of those. I'm going to give it a try on my next brew.

I used one of those Dernod screens on my last beer. It worked well, but it was not a terribly hoppy beer. The trick is you need to find a place to put it in your system that allows enough room for hop sludge to build up, and leaves the surface area of the screen open on both sides, AND that you can close back up and clean out if you need to. Most tri-clam adapters to small diameter barb fittings would leave you a tiny amount of screen actually open. Honestly, I think we are better off figuring out a way to rack from above the trub than with filtering. Even if it is filtering with just a screen. The more hardware I add, the more monkey business. KISS.

I love a lot of things about my conical, but I do miss cold crashing in my chest freezer and carboy. I just can't get the kind of cold temps I was able to get with that setup.

I wonder if the location of the coil in the center of the beer and the high surface area of the trub cone tend to keep the trub warmer? All that material down low and the atmosphere outside warming it up. Does anybody think that is working against us? Or is it a non-issue?

 

[mongoose33]

I love a lot of things about my conical, but I do miss cold crashing in my chest freezer and carboy. I just can't get the kind of cold temps I was able to get with that setup.

About the best I can achieve is 38 degrees on a crash. The temp control system in the spike is so good at controlling ferm temp, but can't quite do it with the crash. I've tried covering the unit w/ a moving blanket, tried covering all the protruberances with reflectix, but it is what it is.

I wonder if the location of the coil in the center of the beer and the high surface area of the trub cone tend to keep the trub warmer? All that material down low and the atmosphere outside warming it up. Does anybody think that is working against us? Or is it a non-issue?

Maybe a little warmer, but not much.

 

[Stand]

The second approach hasn't yet clogged on me (crossing fingers). I don't know why--I'm guessing the pressure, when I clear/purge the line and the racking arm, is better able to blow out any debris past the poppets in the QD. And I've found it transfers the beer quite a bit faster.

That's exactly the setup I have, and it's only clogged once, but it was such a pain that I never want it to happen again. NEVER.

I'm sure with a 10-gallon batch it would be fine, but then, 3 ounces of hops is about all that it can handle (maybe 4).

So if you're brewing 5-gallon batches in a CF10, be aware of this. If you're using a CF5, make sure that it will submerge enough especially if you're using the cooling coils.

I only ever do 10 gallon batches, so I think it won't be a problem. I think they are probably just a better solution than the filter, although I might try that as well.

I know some people just throw them in and then dump them. Anybody know how completely the hop pellets settle? I would think you'd still get some floating around when you transfer. Anyone have experience with that?

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

For those using ice water with the Temp Control: For your cooler - what size, and did you cut holes in the cover or just leave cover off? Seems like cover would help insulate but if you're swapping frozen water jugs 2 or times a day, taking a cover off with hoses going through seems like a pain. I'm thinking of getting the TC unit, especially after my last brew day at 95F ambient outdoor temps and 84F hose water in my plate chiller. If nothing but to get down to a reasonable pitching temp. Once I roll the fermenter inside, the A/C set at 68F keeps things fine for an ale. Don't like pitching at 84F though. So, was thinking of trying the ice water/cooler method before making the plunge for a glycol chiller.

 

[Jag75]

For those using ice water with the Temp Control: For your cooler - what size, and did you cut holes in the cover or just leave cover off? Seems like cover would help insulate but if you're swapping frozen water jugs 2 or times a day, taking a cover off with hoses going through seems like a pain. I'm thinking of getting the TC unit, especially after my last brew day at 95F ambient outdoor temps and 84F hose water in my plate chiller. If nothing but to get down to a reasonable pitching temp. Once I roll the fermenter inside, the A/C set at 68F keeps things fine for an ale. Don't like pitching at 84F though. So, was thinking of trying the ice water/cooler method before making the plunge for a glycol chiller.

Are you talking about ice water in an igloo that's pumped into an immersion chiller to be able to pitch sooner? Or are you talking total temp control?

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Are you talking about ice water in an igloo that's pumped into an immersion chiller to be able to pitch sooner? Or are you talking total temp control?

I'm talking about total temp control using the Temp Control unit for the Spike. Getting to pitch temp is a problem I do have right now during warm weather and the TC Unit would solve that as well

 

[Jag75]

I'm talking about total temp control using the Temp Control unit for the Spike. Getting to pitch temp is a problem I do have right now during warm weather and the TC Unit would solve that as well

I had same issue . Water here in the summer is warm coming out of the tap. Since I've built my DIY glycol I get the wort to about 90 , transfer to my cf5, hook up to my chiller and 10 -15 min later I'm pitching. Chiller does a phenomenal job and holds to whatever temp I desire.

 

[cubsfan16]

I had same issue . Water here in the summer is warm coming out of the tap. Since I've built my DIY glycol I get the wort to about 90 , transfer to my cf5, hook up to my chiller and 10 -15 min later I'm pitching. Chiller does a phenomenal job and holds to whatever temp I desire.

Agree, that’s my favorite part of running glycol.

 

[ZmannR2]

Welp I was all pumped to brew today and try out the CF10 finally and my Aubrey Ezboil PID decides to take a ****. No communication at all to the temp probe even after I changed out the probe and the wire. That leaves only the pid. UGHHHHHHHH ruined my whole day

 

[ZmannR2]

I usually just point the arm straight up for the first keg, and then slowly turn it down as I'm transfering to the second keg until I start to get a little yeast.

Is there a clear inline sight glass I can buy cuz I can’t see yeast/Trub being sucked up as I use silicone hose for racking. Or something that I can throw on my 1.5” racking port?

 

[mongoose33]

Is there a clear inline sight glass I can buy cuz I can’t see yeast/Trub being sucked up as I use silicone hose for racking. Or something that I can throw on my 1.5” racking port?

Here are several at brewhardware:

https://www.brewhardware.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=sight+glass&Submit=

I have the first one, with the camlock connections. Here it is on my mash tun so I can monitor the wort as it recirculates:

 

[ZmannR2]

perfect! That way rotating that arm won't be in the blind...thanks!

 

[ZmannR2]

Found a pretty cool attachment, after using the CIP, roll your conical outside and hook this bad boy onto the CIP and let her rip using a garden hose to rinse with your ports open

found here:

https://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TC15M34FGH

 

[OdeCloner]

CF10 owner here, who always does closed transfers. If you do closed transfers, then you probably are already purging your keg somehow, either doing the starsan-push thing, or a bunch of fill/purge CO2 cycles. I did both of these for a long time, and both are somewhat time consuming and/or wasteful. However, they did work.

When I got my CF10, I developed this method below.
1. Brew, aerate, and pitch yeast as normal.
2. Attach your Spike gas manifold.
3. Using a ball lock to ball lock jumper hose, connect one end to the gas manifold and the other to liquid out keg post.
4. Using a ball lock blowoff hose (one end ball lock, one end open tube), connect the ball lock fitting to the gas in post of your keg, and the blowoff into a bucket of water/sanitizer.

This will direct all the CO2 created during fermentation through your keg, and blow the remainder out into your bucket. By the time your beer is done fermenting, the keg is purged and ready for closed transfer.

 

[ZmannR2]

Finally brewed yesterday. Placing casters on my table the BK sits on was perfect. Rolled it to my fridge and placed a cam lock port on the lid and pumped it straight into the CF.

 

[ZmannR2]

When do you guys find is the best time to harvest yeast from the CF using the dump port?

 

[Jag75]

I've been doing it on day 7 . I did what @Blazinlow86 said about using about 10psi to help with yeast dump. It worked better with pressure.

 

[Stand]

I've been doing it on day 7 . I did what @Blazinlow86 said about using about 10psi to help with yeast dump. It worked better with pressure.

I've been doing it after cold-crash. Do you see an advantage to doing it earlier?

 

[Jag75]

I've been doing it after cold-crash. Do you see an advantage to doing it earlier?

I actually haven't cold crashed in my cf5 yet . I've never even done a cold crash tbo. I'm not sure if theres an advantage either way. I leave my beer in the FV for about 3 weeks. If I were to cold crash I'd probably dump yeast on day 7 , then I'd cold crash around day 18, then keg. I guess you can say I cold crash in a keg.

 

[Nate R]

I actually haven't cold crashed in my cf5 yet . I've never even done a cold crash tbo. I'm not sure if theres an advantage either way. I leave my beer in the FV for about 3 weeks. If I were to cold crash I'd probably dump yeast on day 7 , then I'd cold crash around day 18, then keg. I guess you can say I cold crash in a keg.

3 weeks? What type of beer? What type of yeast? What temp?
Thanks

 

[Jag75]

3 weeks? What type of beer? What type of yeast? What temp?
Thanks

Ales, Lagers and sour. Dry and liquid yeast. Temp wise I go by the particular yeast.

 

[ZmannR2]

Dang. I dry hopped yesterday (day 6). I guess I’ll wait to cold crash and see what’s up then. Hopefully the hop residue don’t mix in too much.

Jag are you saying there’s no advantage to cold crashing or are you saying that because you leave it in for 3 weeks it’s clarified enough anyways?

I’ll clarify with gelatin during cold crash and I find a huge difference in the beer so for me there’s a great advantage.

 

[Jag75]

I'm not sure if there is any benefit to cold crashing or not . I've had really clear beers when I want . Maybe it's because I let it sit for 3 weeks. If you dry hop commando style I think cold crashing is helpful as long as you keep o2 out .

 

[Stand]

I've had beers almost crystal clear leaving them for 3-4 weeks in the fermenter at room temperature. The problem is that the chill-haze doesn't form until it's cold, so it's not going to drop.

When I would bottle I saw this happen all the time until I got a dedicated beer fridge that could hold all of the beer I was making. If it sat in the fridge for a few weeks it tasted much better in addition to getting clear.

I also use gelatin to fine my beer, and cold crash + gelatin + a little time makes miracles happen for both clarity and taste in my humble opinion.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Dang. I dry hopped yesterday (day 6). I guess I’ll wait to cold crash and see what’s up then. Hopefully the hop residue don’t mix in too much.

Jag are you saying there’s no advantage to cold crashing or are you saying that because you leave it in for 3 weeks it’s clarified enough anyways?

I’ll clarify with gelatin during cold crash and I find a huge difference in the beer so for me there’s a great advantage.

If your harvesting yeast I would say you would be better to dump the yeast prior to adding any dryhops ideally to keep the slurry cleaner. I'd imagine if you cold crashed prior to dumping the yeast you would collect more yeast and waste less beer. I personally prefer to overbuild my starters and keep 500ml for later use. I only ever attempted collecting yeast at ferm temperature once and alot of clean beer came with it so I don't do it that way anymore. If you cold crash in the fermentor and dump you will end up with basically no sediment in your serving keg. Not necessarily a big deal but I personally hated not being able to move the kegs without having to wait for the beer to clear up again. Hopefully that helps. Cheers