Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[ZmannR2]

Awesome sounds good thanks!

Can we all agree that the lid/gasket system on these CF’s blow absolute donkey balls? It’s the one thing I don’t like about these Spikes. You can’t put the lid on without the gasket wanting to come off and fall into the CF. Does anyone have any tricks to keeping that gasket on the lid while turning it over?

 

[Nate R]

Awesome sounds good thanks!

Can we all agree that the lid/gasket system on these CF’s blow absolute donkey balls? It’s the one thing I don’t like about these Spikes. You can’t put the lid on without the gasket wanting to come off and fall into the CF. Does anyone have any tricks to keeping that gasket on the lid while turning it over?

Ha ha ha... i may have had an incident where i was ensuring the cf5 was sealed via a pressure test. The lid may have blown off. There may have been some marks on the ceiling. Swmbo was more worried about my safety... probably cause she has not seen the marks yet.

Anyways.... i have a few tips:
#1. It was mentioned before to put in the freezer for 10 mins. Just did this. It helps a lot!
#2. I always add a little keg lube. I use the nsf grade spray food lube ($12 a can but lasts forever and rocks!)
#3. Make sure flat side goes down. Follw the reccomended spike way to inset: look at it like a clock: do 12, 6, 9, 3 11, 5, 8, 4, etc. Etc. Take your time.

My issue is the lid tends to stick inside- opposite of falling out.

 

[CodeSection]

Ha ha ha... i may have had an incident where i was ensuring the cf5 was sealed via a pressure test. The lid may have blown off. There may have been some marks on the ceiling. Swmbo was more worried about my safety... probably cause she has not seen the marks yet.

Anyways.... i have a few tips:
#1. It was mentioned before to put in the freezer for 10 mins. Just did this. It helps a lot!
#2. I always add a little keg lube. I use the nsf grade spray food lube ($12 a can but lasts forever and rocks!)
#3. Make sure flat side goes down. Follw the reccomended spike way to inset: look at it like a clock: do 12, 6, 9, 3 11, 5, 8, 4, etc. Etc. Take your time.

My issue is the lid tends to stick inside- opposite of falling out.

I'm glad you found the freezer trick worked! I've been doing that for years anytime I need to shrink any rubber type of gasket. For my CF10, I put the gasket in the freezer for 30 minutes. Then put it in StarSan, then in the lid. I do not have a need for or use food lube spray. But I'll remember that if I have any problems in the future.

Frankly, I have never had a problem with the gasket falling out of the lid. I believe Spike had issues when they first started producing the CF series conical. I'm not sure if it was a manudacturing flaw or an education issue where consumers were installing the gasket upside down. Maybe it was both. The design is a solid design and is used in many industrtries. DE swimming pool filters have the same design.

 

[Beardless]

Awesome sounds good thanks!

Can we all agree that the lid/gasket system on these CF’s blow absolute donkey balls? It’s the one thing I don’t like about these Spikes. You can’t put the lid on without the gasket wanting to come off and fall into the CF. Does anyone have any tricks to keeping that gasket on the lid while turning it over?

I haven’t had any of the “fall out” issues. But I’d recommend trying some keg lube. I wouldn’t think you’d have to soak the whole thing, but strategically placed in a few places may help it stay in the groove (like gluing it) until the lid is put in place. Just a thought. Good luck!

 

[Blazinlow86]

Awesome sounds good thanks!

Can we all agree that the lid/gasket system on these CF’s blow absolute donkey balls? It’s the one thing I don’t like about these Spikes. You can’t put the lid on without the gasket wanting to come off and fall into the CF. Does anyone have any tricks to keeping that gasket on the lid while turning it over?

Contact spike. My gasket will not fall out on its own no matter how hard I try. It fits very snugly. Cheers

 

[iancl]

Had the same problem on day 1, then read the instructions. Flat side in, no problems since.

 

[eric19312]

I’ve been asking this question in another thread but no responses there yet. Anybody know if it is possible to swap the Spike lid gasket for something made from a less oxygen permeable material? Viton, FKM, EPDM, PTFE, or Buna-N for example?

Thinking maybe this would work but given problems others report with the standard gasket seems to be asking for trouble.
https://www.glaciertanks.com/manway-and-manhole-gaskets-mw-seal-rnd-18-fkm.html

 

[Neil158]

Had the same problem on a new CF10 as of a month ago. Thought I knew better and didn't read the directions and put the triangle part in contact with the lid. I embarrassingly spent hours trying to work. Then after much frustration was going to write an email to spike asking them to send another gasket. Saw the FAQ and read the instructions just for kicks and it said the flat side needed to be in contact and not the triangle side. Tried it with a suspect attitude and it worked perfectly. I was shocked and on top of it...I couldn't get the thing out while shaking the lid. Magic.

If the gasket slips out just reverse the way your putting it in and it should solve the problem.

 

[iancl]

I’ve been asking this question in another thread but no responses there yet. Anybody know if it is possible to swap the Spike lid gasket for something made from a less oxygen permeable material? Viton, FKM, EPDM, PTFE, or Buna-N for example?

Thinking maybe this would work but given problems others report with the standard gasket seems to be asking for trouble.
https://www.glaciertanks.com/manway-and-manhole-gaskets-mw-seal-rnd-18-fkm.html

Not sure why it is an issue, as the conical is typically positively charged with CO2. My guess is that the amount of O2 through the gasket is negligible compared to the many other opportunities for oxygen exposure. I have had zero issues with the gasket in18 months of continuous use.

 

[Vale71]

CO2 pressure is irrelevant. As oxydation is a cumulative issue any source of O2 ingress will add up to the total and as a proper replacement is only a few dollars I don't see why one should disregard one source of O2 ingress over others.

 

[itsnotrequired]

true, pressure doesn't change the permeability of the material but certainly is a factor in the total amount of gas that does permeate.

 

[Vale71]

No it isn't. It's like with forced carbonation, all that matters is the individual gas and its partial pressure. Having other gases even at relatively high pressure (at least with normal pressures to be found in our equipment, at extremely high pressures behaviour can indeed start to diverge) does not change the outcome.

 

[eric19312]

Not sure why it is an issue, as the conical is typically positively charged with CO2. My guess is that the amount of O2 through the gasket is negligible compared to the many other opportunities for oxygen exposure. I have had zero issues with the gasket in18 months of continuous use.

I'm not sure how you would know you had zero issues with the gasket from a perspective of oxygen ingress. However Silicone is known for durability and may be another reason it is the default material used in homebrewer equipment.

As @Vale71 points out the difference in partial pressure of oxygen on either side of the gasket determines the flow rate across the gasket. The other issues are the dimensions of the gasket (surface area vs depth) and the transfer coefficient.

 

[mongoose33]

CO2 pressure is irrelevant. As oxydation is a cumulative issue any source of O2 ingress will add up to the total and as a proper replacement is only a few dollars I don't see why one should disregard one source of O2 ingress over others.

How much oxygen ingress is there? Twelve atoms? Several moles? How does it vary over time?

I can't see it as a major source of oxidation as I've been doing this with a CF10 for a long time now, and the beer lasts a long time. It's good, too. But I've always been on a continuous quality improvement approach, and if there's a way to reduce oxygen ingress, then I'm interested.

Let me ask you this: as a materials guy, would a PTFE (Teflon) gasket provide significantly more resistance to O2 ingress than the silicone ones?

I bought 10 of those a while back because they allow one to loosen the TC clamp and rotate the racking arm inside without leaks. Turns out I never needed to do that, but I have ten of these PTFE gaskets sitting there doing nothing.

Are they better? In relation to Viton, as good, half as good compared to silicone, or?

https://www.amazon.com/10PCS-1-5-in...Clover+O-Ring&qid=1566830913&s=gateway&sr=8-1

 

[mongoose33]

Is the chart on this page: https://www.marcorubber.com/o-ring-permeation.htm useful for determining relative permeability of different materials with oxygen?

Unfortunately, the table doesn't include oxygen, but it does include H2 and N2. PTFE (teflon) looks to be nearly as good as Viton, and in the case of H2, better. Can this be extrapolated to O2 permeability?

 

[kevink]

Let me ask you this: as a materials guy, would a PTFE (Teflon) gasket provide significantly more resistance to O2 ingress than the silicone ones?

I'm not sure why you think he's a material guy, but yes, silicone is much worse than other materials. Teflon is one of the best, maybe the best, but it's hard. Your tri-clamp surfaces better be smooth and flat (not warped at all). Glacier recommends using high pressure clamps because of this. You can also try envelope gaskets if you have a warped tri-clamp mating surface that you can't get to seal with a teflon gasket.

Here you go, Mongoose. This shows O2 permeability characteristics of various materials on pg 4.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=2ahUKEwjniMfN5aDkAhW4HDQIHfhtCAgQFjAEegQIAxAC&url=https://imageserv5.team-logic.com/mediaLibrary/99/D116_20Haibing_20Zhang_20et_20al.pdf&usg=AOvVaw37fslT5w6JoNhltdQPtl3V

 

[mongoose33]

I'm not sure why you think he's a material guy, but yes, silicone is much worse than other materials.

Well, he was expressing all this information as if he is an expert. I tend, when my own knowledge is lacking, to defer to those with more preparation in an area. Perhaps I was wrong.

Teflon is one of the best, maybe the best, but it's hard. Your tri-clamp surfaces better be smooth and flat (not warped at all). Glacier recommends using high pressure clamps because of this. You can also try envelope gaskets if you have a warped tri-clamp mating surface that you can't get to seal with a teflon gasket.

Yes, they are fairly hard. I've used them a couple times, they worked fine. Certainly, if they have potential benefits and I have a bunch just lying around, I should use them.

Here you go, Mongoose. This shows O2 permeability characteristics of various materials on pg 4.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=2ahUKEwjniMfN5aDkAhW4HDQIHfhtCAgQFjAEegQIAxAC&url=https://imageserv5.team-logic.com/mediaLibrary/99/D116_20Haibing_20Zhang_20et_20al.pdf&usg=AOvVaw37fslT5w6JoNhltdQPtl3V

Thanks. I was trying to figure out what advantage Viton had over the PTFE gaskets; is it more flexible? Don't know. But I'll try my PTFE gaskets and see if there's a discernable difference.

And FWIW, I brought this up because the PTFE gaskets are much cheaper than the Viton gaskets.

 

[kevink]

I have a lot of teflon stuff around, but no viton. Everything I have read indicates that viton is more flexible than teflon.

 

[itsnotrequired]

No it isn't. It's like with forced carbonation, all that matters is the individual gas and its partial pressure. Having other gases even at relatively high pressure (at least with normal pressures to be found in our equipment, at extremely high pressures behaviour can indeed start to diverge) does not change the outcome.

sorry, should have read your post closer, didn't catch the co2-specific pressure reference. yes, only partial pressure of the gas in question applies.

 

[Vale71]

Teflon is really stiff, more like plastic than rubber, getting a good seal might be a bit hit-and-miss.
Viton is somewhat stiffer than EPDM but it's still quite flexible, like one expects rubber to be. I've never had problems getting a good seal both on my EPDM as well as on my Viton gaskets and that using standard low-pressure clamps.

 

[ZmannR2]

Had the same problem on day 1, then read the instructions. Flat side in, no problems since.

That’s pretty obvious. I have been installing it correctly. It’s just really loose in there

 

[mongoose33]

That’s pretty obvious. I have been installing it correctly. It’s just really loose in there

I have some keg lube that comes in a tube. It's fairly sticky stuff. I took a q-tip and dabbed some inside the channel in the lid and it does a nice job holding the gasket in place for me.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I’ve been asking this question in another thread but no responses there yet. Anybody know if it is possible to swap the Spike lid gasket for something made from a less oxygen permeable material? Viton, FKM, EPDM, PTFE, or Buna-N for example?

Thinking maybe this would work but given problems others report with the standard gasket seems to be asking for trouble.
https://www.glaciertanks.com/manway-and-manhole-gaskets-mw-seal-rnd-18-fkm.html

You may be looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Unless you have a defective lid or gasket there's no issues with spikes design. If you do have a defective lid or gasket just get a new one from spike. Have you had a oxidization issue since switching to the cf? If so maybe post your process up so we can help pinpoint your errors. Cheers

 

[ZmannR2]

I can’t tell y’all how awesome it is to throw an entire CF10 in a fridge and simply take the probe from an Inkbird ITC-308 and set that bad boy to 50 degrees for my lager and just forget it for the duration of fermentation. Same for when I d-rest and lager. It’s just bliss guys!

 

[jekeane]

I just ordered my third CF5 and have to give a shoutout to @SpikeBrewing. I was looking at my first order from march to make sure I got everything I needed when I noticed there was a error in my bill. It was something I failed to catch and should have seen when unpacking my order. Out of curiosity I mentioned it to the spike customer chat representative and she took care of it for me. Great company!

 

[eric19312]

You may be looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Unless you have a defective lid or gasket there's no issues with spikes design. If you do have a defective lid or gasket just get a new one from spike. Have you had a oxidization issue since switching to the cf? If so maybe post your process up so we can help pinpoint your errors. Cheers

You may be right. I'm still waiting to buy but noticed @Vale71 gasket comment a few pages back and have been reading about this issue for several days. One IF that is real issue I don't see how the Spike design can address it. It is one thing to substitute all the triclover gaskets with something less oxygen permeable - something very doable for a little money - and another thing to replace that huge lid gasket which may be a custom piece.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding how that lid gasket works. Is the gasket rim exposed to air or not? Perhaps it is sealed on the outside by the band clamp and so not a point of entry for oxygen.

One good thing is in two days of researching the probrewer sites and forums I've yet to come across oxygen permeability listed as a reason probrewers might chose something other than silicone. They are way more interested as far as I can tell by the gaskets ability to hold up to CIP and SIP cleaning protocols especially with the much more aggressive acid and caustic cleaners pro breweries use.

On other hand if this is issue it would be reason I might consider buying something other than Spike. For example the lid on the SS Brewtech Unitank is a 6" tri clamp lid. Glacier Tanks has the Viton gasket, FDA ok, for about $20. EPDM is about $13 and the non FDA ok EPDM gasket is about $3. Following along on the calculations on this page...and substituting the dimensions of that 18" silicone gasket you can come up with some potentially alarming oxygen ingress rates. http://www.********************/brewing-methods/beer-serving-oxygen-ingress/

All this is theoretical and I feel like with some of this low oxygenation stuff it's like debating merits of water calculators except few or none of the people debating have access to a reliable DO meter.

I know the answer is to just buy it already and make some beer. Soon .... Soon ...

 

[mongoose33]

You may be right. I'm still waiting to buy but noticed @Vale71 gasket comment a few pages back and have been reading about this issue for several days. One IF that is real issue I don't see how the Spike design can address it. It is one thing to substitute all the triclover gaskets with something less oxygen permeable - something very doable for a little money - and another thing to replace that huge lid gasket which may be a custom piece.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding how that lid gasket works. Is the gasket rim exposed to air or not? Perhaps it is sealed on the outside by the band clamp and so not a point of entry for oxygen.

One good thing is in two days of researching the probrewer sites and forums I've yet to come across oxygen permeability listed as a reason probrewers might chose something other than silicone. They are way more interested as far as I can tell by the gaskets ability to hold up to CIP and SIP cleaning protocols especially with the much more aggressive acid and caustic cleaners pro breweries use.

On other hand if this is issue it would be reason I might consider buying something other than Spike. For example the lid on the SS Brewtech Unitank is a 6" tri clamp lid. Glacier Tanks has the Viton gasket, FDA ok, for about $20. EPDM is about $13 and the non FDA ok EPDM gasket is about $3. Following along on the calculations on this page...and substituting the dimensions of that 18" silicone gasket you can come up with some potentially alarming oxygen ingress rates. http://www.********************/brewing-methods/beer-serving-oxygen-ingress/

All this is theoretical and I feel like with some of this low oxygenation stuff it's like debating merits of water calculators except few or none of the people debating have access to a reliable DO meter.

I know the answer is to just buy it already and make some beer. Soon .... Soon ...

I don't doubt there is some oxygen ingress through gaskets and such, but what isn't clear is how much there is, and what discernable effect, if any, it has on the beer. I've had a hazy IPA on tap that was brewed on 4/22/19; that's just slightly more than 4 months--and it's still good. It's lost a bit of hop vibrancy, but I cannot blame oxygen ingress in the fermenter on that, as it was great coming out of the conical.

Further, I've brewed some light lagers using the LODO techniques--and using the Spike conical--and they've come out as something really special. I've brewed a Pilsner whose pils taste was almost too much. Can't be anything other than the LODO techniques. In fact, when I have Pils malt in a recipe, I'm scaling it back a bit. Maybe oxygen ingress in the fermenter had some deleterious effect, but that beer is so different from a normal Pils that it's just....well, unimportant.

Finally--and you do not want to hear this, I'll bet--it's very unlikely the CO2 you're carbonating and pushing beer with is perfectly pure CO2. It's probably about 99.5 percent CO2, the remainder being....air. Air is 21 percent oxygen....and I'm sure you know where I'm going with this.

So .1 percent of your "CO2" is really oxygen. I'm not seeing any kind of significant effect due to that, though I suspect the fading brightness of my hazy IPA maybe a result of that.

 

[Blazinlow86]

You may be right. I'm still waiting to buy but noticed @Vale71 gasket comment a few pages back and have been reading about this issue for several days. One IF that is real issue I don't see how the Spike design can address it. It is one thing to substitute all the triclover gaskets with something less oxygen permeable - something very doable for a little money - and another thing to replace that huge lid gasket which may be a custom piece.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding how that lid gasket works. Is the gasket rim exposed to air or not? Perhaps it is sealed on the outside by the band clamp and so not a point of entry for oxygen.

One good thing is in two days of researching the probrewer sites and forums I've yet to come across oxygen permeability listed as a reason probrewers might chose something other than silicone. They are way more interested as far as I can tell by the gaskets ability to hold up to CIP and SIP cleaning protocols especially with the much more aggressive acid and caustic cleaners pro breweries use.

On other hand if this is issue it would be reason I might consider buying something other than Spike. For example the lid on the SS Brewtech Unitank is a 6" tri clamp lid. Glacier Tanks has the Viton gasket, FDA ok, for about $20. EPDM is about $13 and the non FDA ok EPDM gasket is about $3. Following along on the calculations on this page...and substituting the dimensions of that 18" silicone gasket you can come up with some potentially alarming oxygen ingress rates. http://www.********************/brewing-methods/beer-serving-oxygen-ingress/

All this is theoretical and I feel like with some of this low oxygenation stuff it's like debating merits of water calculators except few or none of the people debating have access to a reliable DO meter.

I know the answer is to just buy it already and make some beer. Soon .... Soon ...

I guess to each there own. I can say the lid works fine on my cf15 and if I had to clean it thru a 6inch hole in the top or by cip I wouldn't have bought it and stuck with 3 fermonsters . I didn't buy mine for bling however I purchased it to make my brewday easier than before. It takes me 5 minutes to clean and sanitize. Cheers

 

[Nate R]

Oh boy... i step away from a thread for a few days and i miss all the fun!!!
Did we just see some LODO creep into the Spike thread?!?! (Somebody insert that guy eating popcorn at a movie gif!!!)

Question- isn't the amount of oxygen that comes in when one, say, adds dry hops, (even with fancy methods of adding) significantly more than the ingress from the gasket if it's in the conical for say a week?
Also, I recently read from a poster who is trying to get rid of his plastic blow off tube for oxygen intake as well.

Isnt there a point of dimenishing returns here somwhere? To me the jump from a 6 gallon plastic paint bucket to a sealed stainless conical with the ability to purge with c02 makes most everything else inconseqential (ouch spelling sorry).

Don't the pro local small craft guys open up their big conicals for dry hop, etc.?

And how many of us here have accidently "exposed" a batch that we would think ordinarily would "ruin" it, only to discover the beer turns out just as good as always? Or worse better?

I just wonder if the (possibly theoritcal) quest for lodo is an obsession?
But i will leave that to the lodo forum!

Also- great point on the c02 gas mixture purity. I've read about 20 threads here just on that. That's another great rabbit hole to go down!

To the poster with a loose lid- just contact Spike. As mentioned above their customer service rocks.

And of course RDWHAHBOFDWIYDCALODOAODTBIASOFCLTFM!


(Relax Dont Worry Have A Homebrew. But Of Course Do Worry If You Dont Care About LODO. And Only Drink That Beer In A Sealed Oxygen Free Chamber Lest The Flavors Mix!)

 

[Vale71]

Question- isn't the amount of oxygen that comes in when one, say, adds dry hops, (even with fancy methods of adding) significantly more than the ingress from the gasket if it's in the conical for say a week?
...
Don't the pro local small craft guys open up their big conicals for dry hop, etc.?

May I point you to this gigantic thread that you seem to somehow have missed?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/no-oxygen-dry-hopping.663500/

With a Unitank and a some craftiness one can indeed reduce oxygen ingress from dry-hopping to practically zero.

And the answer to question number two is no, pros never open up their fermenters except maybe when they're empty and they have to climb in through the manhole to inspect/clean. The reasons for that are hygiene, worker safety (CO2 is a health hazard) and also the fact that dumping hops in fully carbonated beer can result in lots and lots of beer being expelled and ending as a loss in the gutter. Somebody posted video of that in the other thread. For dry hopping most craft breweries use external recirculation systems that are purged of oxygen before use. Very large breweries (that haven't completely swittched to producing aroma-and-taste-free beer ) use aroma extracts that are mostly injected inline as part of the inline filtration/pasteurization/carbonation/packaging system.

 

[Nate R]

May I point you to this gigantic thread that you seem to somehow have missed?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/no-oxygen-dry-hopping.663500/

With a Unitank and a some craftiness one can indeed reduce oxygen ingress from dry-hopping to practically zero.

And the answer to question number two is no, pros never open up their fermenters except maybe when they're empty and they have to climb in through the manhole to inspect/clean. The reasons for that are hygiene, worker safety (CO2 is a health hazard) and also the fact that dumping hops in fully carbonated beer can result in lots and lots of beer being expelled and ending as a loss in the gutter. Somebody posted video of that in the other thread. For dry hopping most craft breweries use external recirculation systems that are purged of oxygen before use. Very large breweries (that haven't completely swittched to producing aroma-and-taste-free beer ) use aroma extracts that are mostly injected inline as part of the inline filtration/pasteurization/carbonation/packaging system.

Oh i know of that thread!! I think i was being a little smart alecky with hinting at it.

Last time i ventured over to the lodo side i was sent home crying. I am still in therapy!!

 

[eric19312]

FWIW it is possible to value and adopt many of the LODO processes without going all in. I personally have no plans to try to limit hot side oxidation. But on cold side with my hoppy beers...most of what I brew...I’m listening.

 

[Nate R]

FWIW it is possible to value and adopt many of the LODO processes without going all in. I personally have no plans to try to limit hot side oxidation. But on cold side with my hoppy beers...most of what I brew...I’m listening.

100% agree! I do closed transfers, purge kegs, etc. Seems to preserve beer longer, minimize containament risk, and honestly- i feel like it keeps my entire work area cleaner- less mess all around!

However, i also feel like the most, um, intense arguments/ discussions i have read have concentrated over in that thread. I feel like HBT even keeps it segregated on purpose.

All that being said, i bet what those folks are doing today will eventually become standard for us homebrewers in a few years, so i should apologize for my flipant remarks.

I like wandering in older posts from say 5 to 10 years here... it is amazing what has changed in such a relatively short time. I started brewing jusy over a year ago and can't believe how many headaches i was saved by folks paving the way.

Although now i am freaked out with my 18" of blow off hose and am trying to think how i can hang a basket of star san off it instead!

 

[Vale71]

Although now i am freaked out with my 18" of blow off hose and am trying to think how i can hang a basket of star san off it instead!

Just get a piece of EPDM water hose. Problem solved!

 

[eric19312]

100% agree! I do closed transfers, purge kegs, etc. Seems to preserve beer longer, minimize containament risk, and honestly- i feel like it keeps my entire work area cleaner- less mess all around!

However, i also feel like the most, um, intense arguments/ discussions i have read have concentrated over in that thread. I feel like HBT even keeps it segregated on purpose.

All that being said, i bet what those folks are doing today will eventually become standard for us homebrewers in a few years, so i should apologize for my flipant remarks.

I like wandering in older posts from say 5 to 10 years here... it is amazing what has changed in such a relatively short time. I started brewing jusy over a year ago and can't believe how many headaches i was saved by folks paving the way.

Although now i am freaked out with my 18" of blow off hose and am trying to think how i can hang a basket of star san off it instead!

Swap the hose for the PRV when fermentation slows down. The whole gasket issue would apply to the time after the yeast stops consuming oxygen. Which may be not until you dump the yeast.

Isn’t traditional lagering done with the beer in contact with the yeast? Seems to me I remember that is the reason AB ages Bud on beechwood...the wood creates a surface for the yeast. Perhaps that yeast is partly in charge of maintaining zero oxygen in the conditioning tank.

 

[Bad Bubba]

I am definitely planning on on buying a unitank and most likely a Spike system. I did want to ask those who have one their opinion a couple of things.

How important in your brewing is having the bottom dump valve to dump yeast and hops? Obviously Spike Flex plus is an option and the main difference is the bottom dump valve.

Do any of you have problems with cooling to lagering temperatures? There have been comments about problems with the SS Brewtech Unitank in cooling.

I will be getting a CF5 - I do mostly 5 gallon batches and I have a 14 gallon SSB Chronical if I want to do something bigger. My overall objective in going this route is to get better control over my fermentation and be able to reproduce my results. I was able to pick up a used Penguin Chiller so I already have that.

 

[Nate R]

I am definitely planning on on buying a unitank and most likely a Spike system. I did want to ask those who have one their opinion a couple of things.

How important in your brewing is having the bottom dump valve to dump yeast and hops? Obviously Spike Flex plus is an option and the main difference is the bottom dump valve.

Do any of you have problems with cooling to lagering temperatures? There have been comments about problems with the SS Brewtech Unitank in cooling.

I will be getting a CF5 - I do mostly 5 gallon batches and I have a 14 gallon SSB Chronical if I want to do something bigger. My overall objective in going this route is to get better control over my fermentation and be able to reproduce my results. I was able to pick up a used Penguin Chiller so I already have that.

I only have a Spike so take this with a grain.

How important is it to dump? Before i got my Penguin i could only get it to day maybe 40. After primary dump, crash, 2nd dump, i could take beer from the bottom 2" valve it was so clean. Now with a cold crash it is even better. If you dry hop then maybe you would want to draw from the 1.5" valve above the trub after crash.
If you, or if you want to, harvest yeast then bottom dump is a must!

How easy to lager?

With my cf5, the temp coil, i was able to get a lager to 50 for over 3 weeks with only ice packs in a cooler. So easy!
With the penguin it will be a breeze!!! The hardest part is keeping the glycol warm enough that it doesnt drop too low! (The temp can swing like down 2 degrees if your glycol is super cold).

I can crash to 36 fairly easy as well. From 70 to 38 last time maybe 3 hours? 4 max. Ambient say 74. Again the problem is worrying that it gets too cold!

I LOVE my spike. Note- you MUST get the carb stone!! Holy cow- from adding oxygen when pitching to carbing my beer in less than 24 hours WOW. Cant believe i took so long to get it!!

Note- i bet the SS and others offer very similar benefits. I liked that i could add on to my Spike over time (kinda like lawaway) So i started with just cf 5, then temp coil, then carb stone, etc.
I like the made in usa small.company feel of Spike.
I am sure you will be happy with any of the options. Find what works best for you and best cost etc.
Note check the for sale here- good deals sometimes. Shipping always kills.

 

[logdrum]

Welp, I just joined the club. Ordered the 1/3 HP Penguin Chiller last night & a fully loaded CF-10 today!

 

[Tom R]

Congratulations!
You'll love your new setup.

 

[Bad Bubba]

I only have a Spike so take this with a grain.

How important is it to dump? Before i got my Penguin i could only get it to day maybe 40. After primary dump, crash, 2nd dump, i could take beer from the bottom 2" valve it was so clean. Now with a cold crash it is even better. If you dry hop then maybe you would want to draw from the 1.5" valve above the trub after crash.
If you, or if you want to, harvest yeast then bottom dump is a must!

How easy to lager?

With my cf5, the temp coil, i was able to get a lager to 50 for over 3 weeks with only ice packs in a cooler. So easy!
With the penguin it will be a breeze!!! The hardest part is keeping the glycol warm enough that it doesnt drop too low! (The temp can swing like down 2 degrees if your glycol is super cold).

I can crash to 36 fairly easy as well. From 70 to 38 last time maybe 3 hours? 4 max. Ambient say 74. Again the problem is worrying that it gets too cold!

I LOVE my spike. Note- you MUST get the carb stone!! Holy cow- from adding oxygen when pitching to carbing my beer in less than 24 hours WOW. Cant believe i took so long to get it!!

Note- i bet the SS and others offer very similar benefits. I liked that i could add on to my Spike over time (kinda like lawaway) So i started with just cf 5, then temp coil, then carb stone, etc.
I like the made in usa small.company feel of Spike.
I am sure you will be happy with any of the options. Find what works best for you and best cost etc.
Note check the for sale here- good deals sometimes. Shipping always kills.

Thanks. That is exactly the info I am looking for. What other accessories do you like for the Spike?