Shipping Homebrew - The Hard Truth (as I understand it)

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bgm1961

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Hi all,

All of us at some time or another have a desire to ship our beer. While researching how to do it in the U.S. as a homebrewer, I've come to the conclusion it can't be done above board... unless you happen to be licensed. So, here's what I learned:
(Please correct me wherever I'm wrong! I hope I am!)

1) Every knows, or should know, that it violates US Code to ship beer through the US Postal Service (USPS). (18 USC 1716). So the post office is never an option (again, if you want to keep everything above board. There are plenty of suggestions in these and other online forums on how to proceed despite the code).

2) As the above referenced US Code only applies to the USPS, it does not apply to private carriers (i.e., UPS & FedEx). Thusly its a common conception that its perfectly OK to ship beer via either of these two shippers.

However, I think it should be a misconception, as its not so simple to ship beer via FedEx or UPS as we'd like to believe. There are two reasons:

a) Regardless of the shipper, state laws apply. While the common perception that it’s only against UPS and FedEx policy is true, this may be partly due to the fact that it’s against the law to ship alcohol in up to 22 states.
No matter who’s shipping, it’s illegal to have alcohol delivered to your residence in at least 16 states: AK, AR, DE, HI, KY, MA, MD, ME, MS, MT, OK, PA, SD, TX, UT, and WV.
And according to Brewforia’s website (an online beer retailer), they add six more states to their “no-ship-to” list: KS, MI, NH, RI, VA, and WA. This brings the list of states where its illegal(?) to receive beer to 22.
(Note that I have not personally checked any of the states’ individual websites to confirm if these laws are in effect today).

b) Getting back to UPS & FedEx policy... even when shipping to a legal state, both carriers will only accept alcohol shipments from licensed entities (i.e., NOT homebrewers). Both carriers also require contracts to ship alcohol. (again, if everything was done 'above board').

Here are links to support the above:
FedEx Source: http://www.fedex.com/us/freight/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html

UPS: http://compass.ups.com/AskTheExpert/?id=6442450993
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/wine.html

Illegal States:
http://billybrew.com/the-ins-and-outs-of-shipping-beer
http://shop.brewforia.com/customer-service/#answer1

3) Also, some of you may've heard that Congress is trying to allow the USPS to ship beer. Yeah! Well, not so fast. Yes, Congress is considering a bill which would allow the USPS to ship beer. But if passed, it will only allow the USPS to compete with UPS and FedEx (so to ship beer from licensed entities to states where its legal). This would still leave homebrewers without a means to legally ship beer via the USPS. The bill (HR 1718), linked below, appears to be stalled.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1718/text

Any thoughts? And please, lets leave suggestions on labeling your package as "Yeast Samples" or declaring something else to be in the package for other conversations. I intend this thread to be strictly about the laws and policies we face as homebrewers. Not how to get around them.

Thanks!
 
You are correct. It is against federal law to ship alcohol USPS. It is, however, not against the law with other carriers.

It may be against policy with UPS or FedEx, and of course state law will be applicable.

Many people ship beer to competitions and such; no reason to state any thing when shipping unless asked.

I have my own UPS account, and I ship all sorts of things to people all over the US. I simply print out my label and drop off with a UPS driver, and they have never asked what is in the package. I send all of my Christmas gifts to family and friends, and they never have asked. If asked, I would definitely tell the truth, but that has never happened to me.
 
Why would/should we try to get around them:confused:?? I can see the reason behind the USPS policy. Alcohol can be a hazardous material (flammable) if it is high enough proof which of course is a safety hazard. So the easiest solution is to ban the shipping of all alcohol. In regards to shipping homebrew.....I don't think the USPS really cares. But lets assume the worst. A bottle of your homebrew that is being shipped to a competition breaks open in back of the post office. I doubt anything would happen...other than them cleaning up a mess. Not really worth the time or money prosecuting someone.
 
Your only legal response is to not do it and to contact your local representative who's campaign likely is funded by inbev so good luck.

I have never been asked by UPS what is in my box and have never felt the need to tell them. My assumption is UPS doesn't want to know what is in your box and they want to secure as much business from the disaster that is know as the USPS.
 
Why would/should we try to get around them:confused:?? I can see the reason behind the USPS policy. Alcohol can be a hazardous material (flammable) if it is high enough proof which of course is a safety hazard. So the easiest solution is to ban the shipping of all alcohol. In regards to shipping homebrew.....I don't think the USPS really cares. But lets assume the worst. A bottle of your homebrew that is being shipped to a competition breaks open in back of the post office. I doubt anything would happen...other than them cleaning up a mess. Not really worth the time or money prosecuting someone.

Considering that under US code, the penalty for getting caught could be as much as a year in prison, 20 years if someone (somehow) gets injured by it (cut by a broken bottle or something), or potentially even a capital offense if someone were to (somehow) get killed by your homebrew (I don't know, said broken bottle somehow severs an artery).....

...even if the likelihood of being prosecuted is small if you get caught, not worth the risk.

UPS or FedEx, worst case scenario, your shipment is refused and returned and you're denied a refund for the shipping costs.

I've had a few folks overseas want to trade beers with me, and I won't do it, just because the shipping costs combined with the risk going through private carrier isn't worth it to me. Spending $10 or whatever to ship a few bottles domestically I'm fine sending a few "yeast samples". I've never once had an issue with UPS though.
 
Why would/should we try to get around them:confused:?? I can see the reason behind the USPS policy. Alcohol can be a hazardous material (flammable) if it is high enough proof which of course is a safety hazard.

The other reason (and perhaps a big reason the House Bill has stalled), is to prevent shipping alcohol to minors.

When a state's law allows, both UPS and FedEx require a person over the age of 21 to sign for the package. (But of course this only applies if you tell them what's in the package)! Judging by most of the replies thus far, what UPS and FedEx don't know....
 
Considering that under US code, the penalty for getting caught could be as much as a year in prison, 20 years if someone (somehow) gets injured by it (cut by a broken bottle or something), or potentially even a capital offense if someone were to (somehow) get killed by your homebrew (I don't know, said broken bottle somehow severs an artery).....

...even if the likelihood of being prosecuted is small if you get caught, not worth the risk.

UPS or FedEx, worst case scenario, your shipment is refused and returned and you're denied a refund for the shipping costs.

I've had a few folks overseas want to trade beers with me, and I won't do it, just because the shipping costs combined with the risk going through private carrier isn't worth it to me. Spending $10 or whatever to ship a few bottles domestically I'm fine sending a few "yeast samples". I've never once had an issue with UPS though.

Now I don't send beer via the USPS but I am sure that a lot of people do. The cost to prosecute a case for someone sending a few bottles of homebrew would far, far outweigh any benefit. Think of this.....how would the USPS even know it was alcoholic beer unless it was tested in a certified lab?
 
First neither USPS nor UPS, nor FedEx can ask you what you are shipping. You must declare if the item is hazardous or not, nothing else needs to be disclosed. If they ask it is literally none of their business. UPS and FedEx stores are different and do not allow many things shipped that otherwise would be fine.

At the end of the day, if you pack your shipment well, pay your fees, and keep you mouth shut and avoid USPS you will be fine. There really is not a big challenge to it.
 
First neither USPS nor UPS, nor FedEx can ask you what you are shipping.

Huh??? Putting aside for a second everyone's agreement that its against the law to ship via the USPS, can you clarify your statement? EVERYTIME I mail a package via USPS at the counter, I'm asked if it contains, "Liquids, perfume, batteries, hazardous blah blah blah". Everytime. And if paying/printing a label from home, everyone has to agree to a disclosure statement that they're not mailing...

And the last two times I shipped via FedEx, I was asked if there were any liquids or hazardous materials in the package.
 
Exactly as I stated they cannot ask what specifically is in your package only if it falls under the hazardous shipping materials guidelines. You only need to provide a yes or no answer, anything beyond that is none of their business.
 
I was denied because they asked and I didn't know it was against policy. I asked the guy if I told him it was cider, if he could let it slide, but no..

So I walked in the next day, prepared with what to say, and it happened to be the same guy. He did t even ask so he could avoid the situation, because he knew I was not going to let it go easily..
 
And according to Brewforia’s website (an online beer retailer), they add six more states to their “no-ship-to” list: KS, MI, NH, RI, VA, and WA. This brings the list of states where its illegal to receive beer to 22.
(Note that I have not personally checked any of the states’ individual websites to confirm if these laws are in effect today).

I don't know anything about Brewforia or why they don't ship to VA, but it is not illegal to ship alcohol to Virginia. I've received wine shipments from retailers via FedEx, and beer shipments via UPS. Great big stickers even tell everyone that alcohol is in the package.
 
I don't know anything about Brewforia or why they don't ship to VA, but it is not illegal to ship alcohol to Virginia. I've received wine shipments from retailers via FedEx, and beer shipments via UPS. Great big stickers even tell everyone that alcohol is in the package.

Yep, I live in VA and I've ordered beer from online retailers that were out of state without any problems.
 
I don't know anything about Brewforia or why they don't ship to VA, but it is not illegal to ship alcohol to Virginia. I've received wine shipments from retailers via FedEx, and beer shipments via UPS. Great big stickers even tell everyone that alcohol is in the package.

Michigan either. I've bought beer and wine from lower Michigan, and from NY state, and all shipments arrived just fine.

The only issue I had in one case, when I ordered via phone, was they wanted me to text a picture ID to them. When I order from the wine place in the Finger Lakes region (great cab franc and dry riesling, by the way!), I just order online and it arrives at my door. I don't even recall signing for it.

Perhaps it's Brewforia's policy? Because it's not illegal.
 
If you're brewing a spicy beer, hot sauce would work.

Otherwise, just say you're shipping cold barley soup.
 
Not illegal to ship beer to Pennsylvania either. I had the beer of the month club and it clearly states on the label that it's alcohol. Had to show the driver my id.
 
the penalty for getting caught could be potentially even a capital offense if someone were to (somehow) get killed by your homebrew (I don't know, said broken bottle somehow severs an artery).....

In which state(s) is "Criminal negligence causing death" a capital offence?

You understand that there is a well-defined list of offences with clear criteria that fall under the list of "capital offenses," right? It's not just whenever someone gets killed, the death penalty is an option for the judge/jury.

Let's keep the hyperbole out of the thread, it's not helpful.
 
Perhaps it's Brewforia's policy? Because it's not illegal.

I was thinking that it could just be a shipping distance policy. I ordered some beer from CA and I had a bottle leak. They told me that they use ground shipping and it travels by truck through the Rockies, and that it was likely that the changes in temperature caused the cap to lose its seal. They sent me a replacement bottle, but shortly after I noticed on their website that they had changed their refund policy...
 
The Michigan state law is only licensed producers can ship and there has to be a signature to prove the package wasn't taken by minors or some other "protect the children" argument.

I never ship beer. Only "yeast samples for evaluation."
 
FWIW i live in VA and have received wine and spirits in the mail via fedex and UPS before. Never ordered beer online though.
 
In which state(s) is "Criminal negligence causing death" a capital offence?

You understand that there is a well-defined list of offences with clear criteria that fall under the list of "capital offenses," right? It's not just whenever someone gets killed, the death penalty is an option for the judge/jury.

Let's keep the hyperbole out of the thread, it's not helpful.

Not hyperbole, and not a state matter either, but federal. Look up the code referenced in the OP's post. It's clearly spelled out in US code. The shipping of something considered non-mailable (while this is obviously more geared at explosives and firearms and the like, but does apply to alcohol) that results in someone's death is potentially punishable up to and including death or lifetime imprisonment.

I'm not saying that it's anything near likely to happen, just saying that that's what the law says. And not worth the risk.


(j)(1) Whoever knowingly deposits for mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail, according to the direction thereon, or at any place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, anything declared nonmailable by this section, unless in accordance with the rules and regulations authorized to be prescribed by the Postal Service, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(2) Whoever knowingly deposits for mailing or delivery, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail, according to the direction thereon or at any place to which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, anything declared nonmailable by this section, whether or not transmitted in accordance with the rules and regulations authorized to be prescribed by the Postal Service, with intent to kill or injure another, or injure the mails or other property, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(3) Whoever is convicted of any crime prohibited by this section, which has resulted in the death of any person, shall be subject also to the death penalty or to imprisonment for life.

(k) For purposes of this section, the term “State” includes a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States.
 
Not hyperbole, and not a state matter either, but federal. Look up the code referenced in the OP's post. It's clearly spelled out in US code. The shipping of something considered non-mailable (while this is obviously more geared at explosives and firearms and the like, but does apply to alcohol) that results in someone's death is potentially punishable up to and including death or lifetime imprisonment.

FWIW shipping firearms though USPS, by private individuals is permitted, except for handguns. Ammunition is not allowed however.
 
FWIW shipping firearms though USPS, by private individuals is permitted, except for handguns. Ammunition is not allowed however.

Oh yes, ammo is shipped all the time. The only requirement is a placard on outside of the box marked ORM D. Now such items as smokeless powder, and primers require more, including a hazardous materials fee.
 
Ammo is not allowed through USPS. Only UPS, Fedex, or other common carriers are legal to ship ammunition through. ORM-D was the standard labeling, but is no longer a valid label when shipping ammo, or any other hazardous material previously requiring the ORM-D label, through a common carrier, as of January 1st 2014, they changed the designation to a black diamond with an open center to mark ground shipments, and a black diamond with a Y in the open center for air shipments, previously designated ORM-D. This was a law that was passed in January of 2011 and phased in. ORM-D is no longer valid.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/orm-d/

https://www.usps.com/ship/can-you-ship-it.htm?showtab=2

341.21 Nonmailable Explosives

Nonmailable explosives found in the mailstream must be immediately reported in accordance with POM 139.117.

Nonmailable explosives include, but are not limited to, the following:

Common Fireworks. Fireworks are classified as Division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 explosives depending on the degree of hazard. Fireworks include roman candles, skyrockets, helicopter–type rockets, cylindrical and cone fountains, pyrotechnic wheels, illuminating torches, firecrackers, salutes, and combinations of items that are designed to produce any of the aforementioned types of effects. All types of fireworks are prohibited from mailing.
Fuses. Fuses are classified as Division 1.3 or 1.4 explosives depending on the degree of hazard. All types of fuses (except safety fuses as permitted under 341.22) are prohibited from mailing.
Small Arms Ammunition. Ammunition is classified as a Division 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or 1.4 explosive, depending on the degree of hazard. Ammunition that is regulated as a Class 1 explosive and designed to be fired from a pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun, as well as associated primers and blank cartridges (including those designed for tools) and propellant powder for use in any firearm, is prohibited from mailing.

Primers, powder,ect... may not be shipped though USPS either, again they may only be shipped though a common carrier, and only when the shipment is made by a person/company licensed and trained, and certified in shipping hazardous materials, individuals unless they have their license are always excluded from shipping these items even though common carriers. This restriction also applies to ammunition though common carriers that require air shipment.

:off: Sorry for the thread hijack
 
So wait, I only skimmed this thread, I didn't really read it. If my skimming is correct, I can get the death penalty for shipping beer? Please clarify this for me. That seems extreme.
 
So wait, I only skimmed this thread, I didn't really read it. If my skimming is correct, I can get the death penalty for shipping beer? Please clarify this for me. That seems extreme.

Only USPS and only if your shipment of beer results in someone's death. And the odds of it getting there are unbelievably small. I only brought it becuase its spelled out in law because shipping via USPS is illegal, and the penalties could be very severe if someone were hurt or injured.

Point is to stick to a private carrier like FedEx or UPS, where its usually legal to ship, depending on state law. I would assume if your shipment hurt someone you could still get in legal trouble but nowhere near as severe, no more than shipping anything else non related to beer.
 
Point is to stick to a private carrier like FedEx or UPS, where its usually legal to ship, depending on state law.

I guess my original point is that, white it is legal in most states, unless you are a licensed shipper, it is NOT "OK", nor "Above Board".

In several states it is illegal, no matter who the shipper is. In the rest of the states, it is against company policy. And I would assume that any lawyer would say in a court room, it's up to the person who submitted the package to ensure their package is submitted in accordance with.

So what all this means is that every time we ship homebrew, we must recognize that we are skirting either the law or policy... hence my statement that it is not OK, nor above board.

But as long as our packaging is careful, and they don't "ask any questions", then everything works out in the end. So my other point for the OP, is to stir conversation amongst ourselves... is this how we REALLY want to operate for the next "X" number of years? Are we always going to be OK with skirting around the edges just to share our brews long distance?

Our community is growing and gaining mass. I think some sort of movement can happen. But the comments so far in this thread suggest that a lot of people are fine operating under the "just don't get caught" philosophy.

Shouldn't we move past that?
 
Now I don't send beer via the USPS but I am sure that a lot of people do. The cost to prosecute a case for someone sending a few bottles of homebrew would far, far outweigh any benefit. Think of this.....how would the USPS even know it was alcoholic beer unless it was tested in a certified lab?

When has the cost, ever stopped the US government from doing anything?

I really don't mean this as a political statement at all. This is more a warning to anything just assuming nothing will happen if I get caught.

My father works for the post office and has for over 25 years. The amount of stuff they do, with complete disregard for the cost, is astounding. The most recent is eliminating an 8 hour shift, moving those workers to other shifts, then making everyone work the over time to cover it. So, instead of just paying regular wages for an 8 hour shift, they think it's more cost saving to pay everyone 8 hours over time for that extra shift. No one lost their jobs, they all just get to make over time money now.

Again, the reason I say this is as a warning. If you think the cost will stop the post office from doing anything, you are wrong. Now, they may not want to bother themselves with it, but money would not be the issue.
 
I guess my original point is that, white it is legal in most states, unless you are a licensed shipper, it is NOT "OK", nor "Above Board".

In several states it is illegal, no matter who the shipper is. In the rest of the states, it is against company policy. And I would assume that any lawyer would say in a court room, it's up to the person who submitted the package to ensure their package is submitted in accordance with.

So what all this means is that every time we ship homebrew, we must recognize that we are skirting either the law or policy... hence my statement that it is not OK, nor above board.

But as long as our packaging is careful, and they don't "ask any questions", then everything works out in the end. So my other point for the OP, is to stir conversation amongst ourselves... is this how we REALLY want to operate for the next "X" number of years? Are we always going to be OK with skirting around the edges just to share our brews long distance?

Our community is growing and gaining mass. I think some sort of movement can happen. But the comments so far in this thread suggest that a lot of people are fine operating under the "just don't get caught" philosophy.

Shouldn't we move past that?

I think the entire tone of your thread is nannying. I think you're willing to jeopardize a way that works to start your "movement". I'd rather have a way that works then another "movement". This isn't about morale imperatives or greater good.

I've learned to choose my battles, and I wouldn't choose this one. I'd rather not see someone who's in the mood for big show jeopardizing something that currently works quite well. The entire wine world works on our our 'policy loophole' too, lets leave well enough alone.

Push hard enough and your movement is going to make fedex change their policy of not giving you the 3rd degree on the contents of every package you ship. I'd rather not give up my right to privacy so that someone with a dogmatic sense of right and wrong doesn't have to ignore a corporate "policy".
 
I think the entire tone of your thread is nannying. I think you're willing to jeopardize a way that works to start your "movement". I'd rather have a way that works then another "movement". This isn't about morale imperatives or greater good.

I've learned to choose my battles, and I wouldn't choose this one. I'd rather not see someone who's in the mood for big show jeopardizing something that currently works quite well. The entire wine world works on our our 'policy loophole' too, lets leave well enough alone.

Push hard enough and your movement is going to make fedex change their policy of not giving you the 3rd degree on the contents of every package you ship. I'd rather not give up my right to privacy so that someone with a dogmatic sense of right and wrong doesn't have to ignore a corporate "policy".

Gotta say, I agree with this. Sometimes, you've gotta pick your battles carefully, or else something can end up even more restrictive than it was in the past.

I'd think if it made sense to try and change it, the AHA would have taken that fight up long ago.
 
I think the entire tone of your thread is nannying. I think you're willing to jeopardize a way that works to start your "movement". I'd rather have a way that works then another "movement". This isn't about morale imperatives or greater good.

I've learned to choose my battles, and I wouldn't choose this one. I'd rather not see someone who's in the mood for big show jeopardizing something that currently works quite well. The entire wine world works on our our 'policy loophole' too, lets leave well enough alone.

OK, that's a fair counter opinion which I certainly understand and respect. And I appreciate that you offered it to this discussion, as your point is a really important element to consider.

And despite the nature of my nannying tone, I do agree with you from a practical standpoint. It's the principal that I'm addressing.

Think about it... for every regional or national level competition, the organizer is in effect, sanctioning [shipping] practices that are not entirely "above board". While I agree that on the spectrum of violations, this is really low, but a violation none the less.

So isn't it time to have a "conversation" about legitimizing the shipping process? As our community continues to grow, and as the AHA continues to gain stature and clout (especially being part of the BA), I simply think it's better to address the issue now by working to legitimize homebrew shipping.

Better than waiting till later down the road when the issue will surely explode. Then our ability to ship will surely be jeopardized.
 
OK, that's a fair counter opinion which I certainly understand and respect. And I appreciate that you offered it to this discussion, as your point is a really important element to consider.

And despite the nature of my nannying tone, I do agree with you from a practical standpoint. It's the principal that I'm addressing.

Think about it... for every regional or national level competition, the organizer is in effect, sanctioning [shipping] practices that are not entirely "above board". While I agree that on the spectrum of violations, this is really low, but a violation none the less.

So isn't it time to have a "conversation" about legitimizing the shipping process? As our community continues to grow, and as the AHA continues to gain stature and clout (especially being part of the BA), I simply think it's better to address the issue now by working to legitimize homebrew shipping.

Better than waiting till later down the road when the issue will surely explode. Then our ability to ship will surely be jeopardized.

You have what, 10/12 posts outside of this thread? Now you're here to campaign on behalf of the community, even though to any extent you haven't really been a part of the community in any other capacity? Have the conversation in a less public format. Read your responses. The community supports the practice as it stands.

I also think you're bending over backwards trying to nanny behavior that by in-large does not violate any laws, and merely violates a corporate policy (which carries no legal weight whatsoever) that the corporation in question doesn't bother to enforce themselves.

The fact you can list a few states where some possibly archaic law (also generally unenforced) does not mean the vast majority of us are doing anything wrong. If you deem violating that corporate policy as such a moral affront you need to whistle-blow it on a public forum, well then you are doing exactly the worst possible thing for the community, you're throwing it under the bus.

Edit: This is also my last post on this thread. I don't want to give any further momentum to this conversation.
 
Our community is growing and gaining mass. I think some sort of movement can happen. But the comments so far in this thread suggest that a lot of people are fine operating under the "just don't get caught" philosophy.

Shouldn't we move past that?

Should we write letters to our congresspeople asking them to change the laws? Certainly.

Should we stop shipping beer to contests until the law is changed? Absolutely not.

Think about why this law was put into place.

Most likely, it was to stop liquor vendors from selling alcoholic beverages to people without paying the usual state taxes on it, or to stop people from bypassing the three-tier liquor sale system. It most certainly was not meant to stop homebrewers from sending samples to a contest. Homebrew contests probably didn't even exist when this was law was put into effect, so they didn't make any exceptions for homebrew contests.

Since we're not selling any beer and homebrews don't have anything to do with the three-tier liquor sale system, I fail to see why we should lose sleep knowing that we're ignoring a law.

But if you're the type of person that worries about being prosecuted for such a thing, then by all means...do NOT ship beer to contests.
 

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