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MaximumTrainer

MaximumTrainer

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I am looking for ways to improve my next brew so that it goes a bit more smoothly than my first.

I am using wilser Bag in a 16 gal Bayou classic on stove top.
The bag worked perfect, thanks wilser for his awesome work.

Last brew I had theses difficulties:
1- Putting the hops inside the hop bag during boil.
2- Getting out the bag full of grain

1- [Edit- SOLVED] Using binder clip on the side of the kettle


2- Getting the bag out was painful as I didn't plan any system to hold the bag in the air. I did it by hand and I may have dropped some of my sweat inside the wort in the process, as it was heavy and hot there. I think I did it for 10min, squeezing it a bit at the same time. Probably lost a bit of wort in there as I got too tired and had to take it out.

I can't use the pulley as i'm doing this inside my apartment and haven't found anything sturdy enough to hold the grain bag with a rope.
I'm thinking getting the bag out and putting it inside a smaller kettle so that it drain there. That way I don't have to hold it. Only problem is I'm not sure I have another big enough kettle to do that.

Any suggestion recommended, looking for my next batch I'm hooked now thanks to everyone who helped me get started!
 
I throw my hops in the boil and use a strainer I got at Wally World to strain the hops out/ help aerate the wort when I am putting the wort in my fermentation bucket. As for the grain bag, I bought a big reusable bag from my LHBS and it has a nice long tie rope on it that I tie the other end to my pot handle. When it is ready to come out I pull the rope and use a slotted spoon to grab it with.
 
If you have a tjmaxx near you they have colanders that have expanding arms to fit your kettle. They also may have a large stainless bowl to put you bag in. I suggest tjmaxx because it is cheap the colander was $12 and the bowl which is about 15" across was $5. However many places will have similar items.

Marshals and homegoods are also the same company as tjmaxx and carry the same things.
 
Putting holes in the bag is not a good idea unless you have a way to reinforce them. It will likely rip and drop the whole thing back into the pot of hot wort.

The only things I can think of are some sort of lift that you can put in place during the session then store somewhere else, or smaller batches......

For a hop bag I just use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag clamped to the lip of the kettle. ONCE I made a recipe with enough hops that I used 2 bags....

For draining I have a couple of metal bars that go across the pot with some screws sticking up, I then put the handles of a colander over the screws and drain the grain then the hops from the colander. I only do 3 gallon batches BIAB. All this is the main reason that I dislike brewing BIAB.
 
Thanks for the ideas guys, good to see alternative solution!

For now I don't want to break the bank so I will try the 2 chair + hockey stick method to hold the bag in the air. Downfall with this method is I will have to take the kettle off the stove to the ground to do that, but should be less work overall.
Binder clip is a good plan for the hop bag!
 
I second TJ Maxx I got a 3 piece stainless strainer set high quality name brand for like $12...
 
MaximumTrainer said:
Thanks for the ideas guys, good to see alternative solution!

For now I don't want to break the bank so I will try the 2 chair + hockey stick method to hold the bag in the air. Downfall with this method is I will have to take the kettle off the stove to the ground to do that, but should be less work overall.
Binder clip is a good plan for the hop bag!
Click to expand...

I put my bag on a BBQ grill grate that had never been used, and place that over the brew pot.
 
MaximumTrainer said:
Thanks for the ideas guys, good to see alternative solution!



For now I don't want to break the bank so I will try the 2 chair + hockey stick method to hold the bag in the air. Downfall with this method is I will have to take the kettle off the stove to the ground to do that, but should be less work overall.

Binder clip is a good plan for the hop bag!
Click to expand...


Sorry, but the two chairs and hockey stick sounds like an incredible hassle to me.

Do you have any long utensils, maybe BBQ tools that can span the kettle. You can place them across the top of the kettle and rest the bag while draining. Just to take a little of the weight while you hold it,

Idk, try and keep it simple IMO. Taking the pot off the stove doesn't sound like a good solution to me.
 
MaximumTrainer said:
Thanks for the ideas guys, good to see alternative solution!



For now I don't want to break the bank so I will try the 2 chair + hockey stick method to hold the bag in the air. Downfall with this method is I will have to take the kettle off the stove to the ground to do that, but should be less work overall.

Binder clip is a good plan for the hop bag!
Click to expand...


Sorry, but the two chairs and hockey stick sounds like an incredible hassle to me.

Do you have any long utensils, maybe BBQ tools that can span the kettle. You can place them across the top of the kettle and rest the bag while draining. Just to take a little of the weight while you hold it,

Idk, try and keep it simple IMO. Taking the pot off the stove doesn't sound like a good solution to me.

I recall a poster that simply lifted his grain bag, let it drain for a minute than carefully put the bag in a bucket, but he had a kitchen bowl in the bottom of the bucket to elevat the bag and allowed it to drain. After say 20 minutes he disposed of the bag and added the runnings to the kettle. Just an idea.
 
Thanks for your expert insight guys

Yeah Wilser you may be right, I like simple thing too.
I have a BBQ grill but it's dirty.. I could clean and dedicate one to this job, but I'm afraid the bag will drip on the side of the kettle with this.
A long BBQ tool may help me hold the bag for 10min, will check with the gf what is available :)

Plan B, I could make a hole in the ceiling to put the pulley there, but the ceiling doesn't look too solid and I would not want to drink the ceiling.
I saw people using a ladder also, too bad I don't have a big one.
 
wilserbrewer said:
If you have a cabinet above the stove, you may be able to place a hidden hook inside the cabinet to attach a pulley?
Just an idea...
Click to expand...

God that is a good idea, I may have a way to do that.
Will post pics of it later. Only thing i'm worried, will the cabinet door handle that much weight? Cabinet door has 4 screw in wood that looks solid, I guess next batch will tell me :)

For going outside, thanks for the suggestion but it's out of the question since i'm in apartment.. outside is limited to a small patio + I don't like gaz. If I go bigger it will be electric. So far it's not a problem since I only do 5gal batches. This setup could even work for 10gal I think, need to test before to see if I can bring to boil.
 
Solutions that will work, I think.

Hop spider (5gal paint stainer bag, PVC adapter, hose-clamp, stainless carriage bolts,nuts washers)
 Hop spider and Boil.jpg

Large collander to set the grain bag on for draining/squeezing
Squeezed Bag.jpg

Edit: Probably wont work for 10 gallon batches, just reread the OP. (16 gallon pot I'm guessing 10-11 gallons)

The colander I use
 
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MaximumTrainer said:
God that is a good idea, I may have a way to do that.
Will post pics of it later. Only thing i'm worried, will the cabinet door handle that much weight? Cabinet door has 4 screw in wood that looks solid, I guess next batch will tell me :)
Click to expand...

Whoa, Trigger! I don't think he's suggesting lifting anything from the door of your cabinet.
 
Put a hook in the back wall of the cabinet, and run the line out the front. Or put a hook in the wall above the cabinet in the soffit, will be out of sight unless your 7' tall.

Don't attach to the cabinet door, but the back face wall of the cabinet.
 
wilserbrewer said:
Put a hook in the back wall of the cabinet, and run the line out the front. Or put a hook in the wall above the cabinet in the soffit, will be out of sight unless your 7' tall.

Don't attach to the cabinet door, but the back face wall of the cabinet.
Click to expand...

Just be careful, as many cabinet designs the back piece is often the weakest point of the cabinet and just there to keep things square. Hard board / thin plywood etc are often used, while the walls, bottom, and tops are often much thicker pieces of MDF/plywood. I would suggest drilling into the wall of the cabinet over the back.

If you want to really do the back cabinet thing, you could cut a hole in the back of the cabinet, and attach it into the wall behind. This would probably be a lot more secure in most designs.
 
Thanks guys for all the ideas,
Hop bag problem solved, bought a pack of big binder clips for 1$ at dollarama!

As for the pulley for the Biab bag, I will first try to set it on the cabinet door for a 5gal batch. I put a screwless hook on top of the door that just sit on the door. I will use the pulley just to help me keep the bag up, in the first minute I will hold the bag to make sure not too break anything.
Long term, I think a good hook screwed in the cabinet back wall would be a good solution. Need to find a hook with multiple long screw that can handle 50 pounds+

Looking forward for my next brew!
 
Yes priceless, good point. Typically most cabinets have a top and bottom rail used to hang the cabinet on the wall, I suggest locating a stud behind the cabinet, likely where the cabinet itself is screwed to the wall.
 
MaximumTrainer said:
As for the pulley for the Biab bag, I will first try to set it on the cabinet door for a 5gal batch. I put a screwless hook on top of the door that just sit on the door. I will use the pulley just to help me keep the bag up, in the first minute I will hold the bag to make sure not too break anything.
Click to expand...

Please don't do this. It will end catastrophically. Even the weight of grains for a 5 gallon batch can be substantial. Your door was not designed nor intended to hold any weight other than its own.
 
Bellybuster said:
I can't believe you use a 16 gallon pot on a stove top
Click to expand...

LoL gotta think long term, and the pot is big enough to be covered by 2 electric elements. Put both elements at 'low' and I keep my mash temp :)

Here are the experimental pic setup. I know the door is not made to hold too much weight. I will move the hook somewhere else if it fails.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ax2z7t6cpik33m3/biabSetup1.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/359z78p3e4z5s9e/biabSetup2.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v6vpbysxpu71mt/biabSetup3.JPG
 
MaximumTrainer said:
LoL gotta think long term, and the pot is big enough to be covered by 2 electric elements. Put both elements at 'low' and I keep my mash temp :)

Here are the experimental pic setup. I know the door is not made to hold too much weight. I will move the hook somewhere else when it fails.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ax2z7t6cpik33m3/biabSetup1.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/359z78p3e4z5s9e/biabSetup2.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9v6vpbysxpu71mt/biabSetup3.JPG
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you. I sell cabinets and other kitchen stuffs, and we have german made blum hardware (arguably the gold standard). They are not intended for this weight, nor are they intended to withstand that much downward force. Moreover, by placing the hook at the end away from the hinge, you're creating more torque which worsens the situation. At the very least you should move the hook in towards the pivot point.
 
pricelessbrewing said:
Fixed that for you. I sell cabinets and other kitchen stuffs, and we have german made blum hardware (arguably the gold standard). They are not intended for this weight, nor are they intended to withstand that much downward force. Moreover, by placing the hook at the end away from the hinge, you're creating more torque which worsens the situation. At the very least you should move the hook in towards the pivot point.
Click to expand...

You are right, I just made that pic for the laught of it. Thanks for confirming it's a ridiculous idea :)
Too bad the bottom of my cabinet is not hight enough to lift the bag, this place would be good. Gotta find more idea. Best idea so far is to find a colander that will fit my kettle.
 
MaximumTrainer said:
You are right, I just made that pic for the laught of it. Thanks for confirming it's a ridiculous idea :)
Too bad the bottom of my cabinet is not hight enough to lift the bag, this place would be good. Gotta find more idea. Best idea so far is to find a collander that will fit my kettle.
Click to expand...

Definitely a simple solution.

I used to have two buckets from a local grocery store (empty frosting buckets from the bakery). Cleaned them out, soaked in oxyclean, rinsed with boiling water (HDPE safe to 250F IIRC), then did a quick rinse with starsan. One got tiny holes drilled in the bottom, and was placed inside the other one. When my mash was done, I placed it inside the top bucket and let it drain into the bottom bucket. Then I would dump my second runnings into the brew kettle and go from there.

If you really wanted to use the pulley, you could do so. I would get a hollow metal wall anchor (easily available with various threading and well over 50 lb ratings). Then find a screw that can screw into the threads, you now have a removable wall mount that isn't TOO ugly to look at for the SWMBO.:ban:
 
^^ Wall anchors are made to hold static force, not the variable stresses of a pulley setup. Whatever he uses should really be screwed into a stud if he's going to put 50 lbs of varying weight on it.

I'd look into Gavin's idea in post #15. Get a steel collander AND a DIY hop spider to set the collander on. Don't rest 50 lbs on that PVC pipe, of course, rig up something sturdier. But shouldn't cost much to figure something out using cheap Home Depot construction materials.
 
KPBrews said:
^^ Wall anchors are made to hold static force, not the variable stresses of a pulley setup. Whatever he uses should really be screwed into a stud if he's going to put 50 lbs of varying weight on it.

I'd look into Gavin's idea in post #15. Get a steel collander AND a DIY hop spider to set the collander on. Don't rest 50 lbs on that PVC pipe, of course, rig up something sturdier. But shouldn't cost much to figure something out using cheap Home Depot construction materials.
Click to expand...

Good point, never had one fail but it makes sense.
 
Going to go to the colander way. Seems the easiest to use, less work to set-up and less $ to invest.

Top of my kettle is 41.5 cm wide from the outside wall of the kettle.
Looking to find one colander that will best fit my kettle.

List so far
1 -16$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B002TRIVB2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
2- 10$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00555ETXY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
3- 12$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B005V2S4S2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

First 2 colanders are 34.3 cm wide. I asked question on amazon to see if width is 40+ cm from both handles, should work if so. Best fit would be the #3 as it would be more solid holding on the whole colander border.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MaximumTrainer said:
Going to go to the colander way. Seems the easiest to use, less work to set-up and less $ to invest.

Top of my kettle is 41.5 cm wide from the outside wall of the kettle.
Looking to find one colander that will best fit my kettle.

List so far
1 -16$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B002TRIVB2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
2- 10$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00555ETXY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
3- 12$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B005V2S4S2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

First 2 colanders are 34.3 cm wide. I asked question on amazon to see if width is 40+ cm from both handles, should work if so. Best fit would be the #3 as it would be more solid holding on the whole colander border
Click to expand...

[Remove part of post about size, didn't see metric units]
I would not count on the handles of a colander to hold it up. They are typically tacked on cheaply.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MaximumTrainer said:
Going to go to the colander way. Seems the easiest to use, less work to set-up and less $ to invest.

Top of my kettle is 41.5 cm wide from the outside wall of the kettle.
Looking to find one colander that will best fit my kettle.

List so far
1 -16$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B002TRIVB2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
2- 10$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00555ETXY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
3- 12$ - http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B005V2S4S2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

First 2 colanders are 34.3 cm wide. I asked question on amazon to see if width is 40+ cm from both handles, should work if so. Best fit would be the #3 as it would be more solid holding on the whole colander border
Click to expand...

Dont trust the handles. (I lost one when I drop the collander). Use one wide enough to be supported by your pot all around if your going that route.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gavin C said:
Dont trust the handles. (I lost one when I drop the collander). Use one wide enough to be supported by your pot all around if your going that route.
Click to expand...

Ok no handle support, got it. So far this is my first choice:
http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B005V2S4S2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Just have to make sure it's wide enough.

Gavin when you say this won't work for a 10gal batch, do you mean the colander could break because there is too much weight on it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MaximumTrainer said:
Gavin when you say this won't work for a 10gal batch, do you mean the colander could break because there is too much weight on it?
Click to expand...

No the collander won't break if you position it like I have. I just mean from a ease of brewing stand-point. I would not enjoy the prospect of lautering a 10 gallon batch without a pulley/hoist of some sort.

My current setup is very simple, neat, reproducable and quick for my 5.5 gallon batches with usually a 8-12 pound grain bill. Doubling that would be a logistical nightmare IMO. Not something I would do with my setup as is.

It's not just the weight, it's the greater dimensions meaning a mess would be likely, squeezing would not be as feasible. I just see a miserable process. Making a mess, spillages, my safety and the health of my back would be my 3 main concerns. I would dread the prospect.

If and when I switch to 10 gallon batches stove top brewing will not be part of the equation.
 
I see, thanks for the clarification.

Like you I find 5 gallons batch easy to do for now and don't plan 10gal for too soon as I'm still learning lot of things.

I can see lifting double the grain being a problem (around 23 pounds of grain full of water = X pounds). It could be doable with one person in good shape lifting the bag while another put the colander right after so the time of work is not too long. I personally like exercise so I will report later when I try it :)
 
Water weighs 8 lbs/gal, so assuming somewhere between 1-2 gallons is held by the grain (just a WAG, if you can guess better based on grain volume compared to 1 gal milk jugs, you should use your numbers), you'd be adding 16 lbs, perhaps less, to the 23 lbs of grain, so close to 30 lbs if my assumptions are collect.

Totally doable to lift, for someone young and in shape, but bear in mind that very hot steam could make it trickier.

Any chance you can build a frame out of 2x4s, to go on either side of the stove, and just attach a pulley to that? A 2x4 is dirt cheap.
 
You also need to visualize the position you'll be in lifting this 30 plus pounds. Standing upright , leaning over the pot, arms out stretched and lifting the heavy wet hot bag up high enough to get the collander underneath.

It's not just lifting 30 pounds off the floor. Heck I can lift and throw my 35 pound 3 yr old in the air in one fail swoop, throw her up high and catch.

It's the awkwardness if the whole operation. Not something I'll be trying.
 
Gavin C said:
You also need to visualize the position you'll be in lifting this 30 plus pounds. Standing upright , leaning over the pot, arms out stretched and lifting the heavy wet hot bag up high enough to get the collander underneath.

It's not just lifting 30 pounds off the floor. Heck I can lift and throw my 35 pound 3 yr old in the air in one fail swoop, throw her up high and catch.

It's the awkwardness if the whole operation. Not something I'll be trying.
Click to expand...

So true, the position is really bad.
Mine is even worst since kettle is on a stove already up to my torso level. I need to stand on a chair so I can lift the bag high enough. Gonna master 5gal lifting technique first!

Edit: I can't really build a frame of 2x4, not sure this kind of apartment modification would please the owners :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Last edited by a moderator:

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