Same taste in my beers

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Sorry for the extremely vague description, but...
I have made about 20 extract batches so far and about 15 of them have had this weird smell and taste....not terrible, but not something ive ever tasted before or could even describe. Ive read every "off taste" article there is. Its not medicinal, not buttery or astringent. I dont know how to describe it other than if i tried 100 beers blond folded with one of mine somewhere in there, i'd be able to pick mine out no problem.

Anyone else have something similar going on?

For what its worth....
-bottles spring water
-has happened with LME, DME, specialty grains, all sort of yeast and beer styles
-has happened with bottles and kegging
-controlled temp
-yeast starters and no starters
-i have made cider 3 times and all 3 batches did NOT have this weird taste

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I noticed that a lot of my extract brews had a similar "tang" to them when using Mr. Beer/Coopers LME and DME on its own.

I didn't have this experience steeping specialty grains as you are, so you might consider trying a mini-mash recipe (doing a small mash in place of part of the DME/LME that you'd be using).

That being said, some questions for you:

• How stringent are you about cleaning your equipment? You may have picked something up that is contributing to the off taste.
• Are you using the same type of spring water every time?
• Are you using the same type of yeast every time?

If you're Mr Clean with your equipment and have switched out both your water and yeasts, I would try and mini mash and see if it helps.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Most of the things i have changed were because inwas trying to fix the "taste".
Thought it was my water...switched to bottled
Thought it was my sanitizer...switched to starsan
Thought maybe secondary was too big...got a 5 gal carboy
The taste has appeared with liquid and dry yeasts, nottingham, us-05, white labs australian ale, etc.
I will says that since kegging, i have made 3 batches where the taste is there but barely. But my latest batch has the taste and its strong.
In bottled batches, could barely taste it when young but it became more noticable as it aged.

 

[Sailingeric]

I would try two small test batches, one with spring water and one from some other brand or just filtered from faucet and compare taste.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

I have read a lot about "extract twang" but that seems to be a sweet taste. Mine is not real sweet. More sour than anything. I have everything i need to switch to all grain but the in-laws bought me a few extract kits so i made those first...

 

[poptarts]

have you tried extract from a different vendor?

 

[Sailingeric]

If it is sour, you may have an infection. Take everything part and give it a good soak in starsans. If you have any ball valves, take them off and apart and clean them real good as well.

 

[slym2none]

Are you buying your extract from a dealer with heavy turnaround? Fresh malt extract is always better than old, and LME is more sensitive to time than dry.

 

[slym2none]

I have read a lot about "extract twang" but that seems to be a sweet taste. Mine is not real sweet. More sour than anything. I have everything i need to switch to all grain but the in-laws bought me a few extract kits so i made those first...

I wouldn't say "twang" is sweet. Twang, like yogurt has. A soured taste, yes!

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Whatever im tasting is definitely not yogurty.
Most kits have been from northern brewer. Others have been a local shop. So maybe it was old extract, i dont know.

one time, i made a "maple red" that the local shop packaged. It tasted very strongly of the "taste". The next time i was at the shop, there was a sampling keg of "maple red" and it tasted exactly the same!!

I have had many people try my beers and they say they cant taste anything weird, just "i thought it would be more hoppy" or "maybe a little sweeter next time". Wish i knew other homebrewers who could try it. Maybe ill bring a sample to the local shop.

 

[GHBWNY]

If the same 'sour' sensation is showing up in pretty much everything you brew regardless of style, water, yeast, malts, etc., it seems like it has to be a condition universal to your process and not the ingredients. In which case, I'd vote for infection. Lactobacillus can cause a sour flavor and is due to lack of proper sanitation at some point in the process.

If it were me, I'd start with cleaning/boiling/sterilizing/bleaching etc. ALL of my equipment that comes into contact with the wort, esp. post-boil (spoons, chiller, hydro, thermometer, bucket/carboy, airlock/grommet, secondary equip., priming equip., etc.) and THEN soak everything (inc. yeast/hops pkgs, even hands) in StarSan that is going to make contact with the wort and leave it soaking until use (SS has to be wet to be effective). Have your bottled beers had any signs of krausen in the bottle or gushing when opened?

 

[bigdaddybrew]

You mention using a secondary. For most beers it is not needed and increases oxidation. Oxidation can cause various off flavors. It reminds me of stale sweet caramel or stale fruity sherry aromas. Oxidation can occur during poorly done racking and poor bottling practices.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Maybe ill bring a sample to the local shop.

Do this. I thought all my beers tasted the same, no matter how many different hops I put in my IPA.. they all had this overwhelming note that made them taste similar. Turns out it was the whole leaf I grow that I was adding. Whereas I thought the whole leaf would add little, it was instead masking any other amount of pellet hops I was putting in.

I also was gifted an extract kit (the last extract batch I'll ever do) from NB and thought it tasted absolutely awful. Friends liked it. Local shop said it was just the yeast, and that there was nothing wrong with it. I took some of my most recent beers to the shop during a tasting event as well and they were surprisingly well-received and I got more feedback than ever. Take it to the shop. Best bet.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Thanks for all the replies.
I really dont think its an infection. I am very meticulous with the sanitation. Theres never been any residue on any bottles or equipment I use.

I have used a secondary before, but i did not with my most recent batch.

I think its misleading when i said "sour". Its not really sour. i have such trouble describing it. When i swirl the glass around and smell the head, its over powering.

-wet cardboard? No
-band aid? No
-cidery? No
-skunky? No
-soapy? No

Its just...."homebrewy"

 

[TheCADJockey]

Its just...."homebrewy"

A thread like this pops up every now and then; every person that starts it has the same responses you have had. I was in the same boat. I still think you'll find taking it to your local shop to be the best thing you can do. If there is anyone that knows what they're doing that can try it, they'll likely have a pretty decent answer for you.

 

[ncbrewer]

I am very meticulous with the sanitation.

Grains (including specialty grains) have bacteria and wild yeast. Some dust from these could settle in your fermenter or some other item after it is sanitized and still cause an infection.

 

[CajunChuck]

I TOO have experienced what he is talking about and still do when I brew my extracts with S-04 or S-05 dry yeast.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

I TOO have experienced what he is talking about and still do when I brew my extracts with S-04 or S-05 dry yeast.

How would you describe the taste/smell???

 

[CajunChuck]

How would you describe the taste/smell???

It's nothing that I've ever tasted. It just has a burntish/malty flavor. I don't really know how to explain it.

 

[slym2none]

Dollars to doughnuts, it's "extract twang".

 

[rcreamer0713]

Burnt might be extract burning at bottom of pot.

I have done bout 10 batches. Mr beer tatsed similiar but as i have gotta my process down its gone away. Now doing 5 gallon batches with steeping grains my beers r much better.

Still no idea bout this "twang" im reading. I have tasted extract and all grain.

 

[daveMN]

I had a similar situation with a NB Scottish Ale extract kit I got from my brother. It was at least 6 months old when I brewed it. I took a bottle to NB and they described it as "raisiny", one of the guys thought it was the age of the kit. Poor head retention too. I get something similar with extract kits almost every time. I switched to all grain and the sweet-ish taste went away.
Like others have said, take a sample to the LHBS, or maybe try AG. You can get somebody's AG equipment on Craigslist pretty cheaply if you look around.

 

[Singletrack]

I feel your pain. I had the same (or similar) issue with my extract batches, years ago. I then started AG, and I never tasted it again. I have changed so many things since those first few batches, that I certainly wouldn't suggest that you have to go AG to fix it. I always thought I would brew an extract batch again someday, but someday hasn't happened. So, I'm no help, but I understand your frustration.

Also, many others could not taste the problem in my extract beers, so maybe there's something to that.

 

[urg8rb8]

I experienced the same taste you did. It went away when I switched to AG.

 

[johnhenryrolf]

I feel your pain. I had the same (or similar) issue with my extract batches, years ago. I then started AG, and I never tasted it again. I have changed so many things since those first few batches, that I certainly wouldn't suggest that you have to go AG to fix it. I always thought I would brew an extract batch again someday, but someday hasn't happened. So, I'm no help, but I understand your frustration.

Also, many others could not taste the problem in my extract beers, so maybe there's something to that.

I personally haven't gone all grain yet, and have experienced what I would say are similar tastes to this subject...it would be great if one of you all grain guys would go ahead and take the plunge and do an extract batch, just to give us extract guys a little more insight. I know it works both ways, but I'm just not quite fully understanding this whole mashing of the grain thing!

 

[daveMN]

I personally haven't gone all grain yet, and have experienced what I would say are similar tastes to this subject...it would be great if one of you all grain guys would go ahead and take the plunge and do an extract batch, just to give us extract guys a little more insight. I know it works both ways, but I'm just not quite fully understanding this whole mashing of the grain thing!

I've done both extract and all grain. The taste diffences between the two are generally a "sweetness" in extract that I don't get with all grain. On other difference I've noticed is my extract batches have almost no head retention and all grain is a lot better. Again, generally speaking.
On the "mashing of the grain thing", imagine putting your extract specialty grains with regular pale malt and letting that sit in water for an hour. Enzymes in the malt turn it into weak malt extract, so you drain out the malt-water and boil it like normal. That's all grain.

 

[bransona]

Not to beat a dead horse...but I'm hearing extract twang

 

[daveMN]

Not to beat a dead horse...but I'm hearing extract twang

Exactly.

 

[thunderwagn]

I had the same _off_ flavor in my extract and again once I switched to all grain brewing. It wasn't till I actually started pitching my yeast and fermenting at proper temps, that I got rid of that flavor. Getting my pitching temp down was instrumental and key to making better brew.

 

[johnhenryrolf]

I've done both extract and all grain. The taste diffences between the two are generally a "sweetness" in extract that I don't get with all grain. On other difference I've noticed is my extract batches have almost no head retention and all grain is a lot better. Again, generally speaking.
On the "mashing of the grain thing", imagine putting your extract specialty grains with regular pale malt and letting that sit in water for an hour. Enzymes in the malt turn it into weak malt extract, so you drain out the malt-water and boil it like normal. That's all grain.

Thanks...that's clear as mud I know that it should seem so simple, but maybe I'll just have to visit one of you guys on a brew day to get the hang of it! I'm so meticulous in my processes, that I just can't make a jump until I'm ABSOLUTELY sure that I know what all of the steps are. I like the simplicity of extract, and know that if I ever change I won't go back, just scared; so to speak.

 

[daveMN]

Thanks...that's clear as mud I know that it should seem so simple, but maybe I'll just have to visit one of you guys on a brew day to get the hang of it! I'm so meticulous in my processes, that I just can't make a jump until I'm ABSOLUTELY sure that I know what all of the steps are. I like the simplicity of extract, and know that if I ever change I won't go back, just scared; so to speak.

Come on up for a brew day. Alternatively, there are a lot of YouTube videos showing people going through an all-grain brew day. For me, I bought Palmer's How To Brew, took notes, and then re-read it a couple more times. To be honest, the first all-grain brew day was exhausting. But when it was done and in the fermenter, I reflected on the day and thought "That was awesome!"

 

[Rush]

How big is your brew pot?

When are you adding your extract during the boil?

Where are you sourcing your extract?

Are you using DME or LME?

Are you using light or dark extract?

How are you aerating your wort?

How are you controlling your fermentation temps?

I've stated recently in another similar thread that once I focused on paying attention to the above questions my extract brews improved tremendously. I used to have the same "twang/everything tastes the same" issue.

I'm not exactly sure what change made the largest difference, but I personally feel like moving to a full boil, adding 10-20% of extract at the beginning of the boil and the remaining extract at flame out, and controlling the fermentation temperature correctly made the largest differences.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Well i had one more extract kit sitting around. I scaled it down to 3 gal so i could try a full boil. I used a starter. I meticulously sanitized everything. I added the LME at the end of the boil. It was light lme. Its bubbling away in my 62 degree basement. Hopefully this will be twang free

 

[urg8rb8]

Well i had one more extract kit sitting around. I scaled it down to 3 gal so i could try a full boil. I used a starter. I meticulously sanitized everything. I added the LME at the end of the boil. It was light lme. Its bubbling away in my 62 degree basement. Hopefully this will be twang free

Don't be surprised if you get the twang. That flavor comes from the lme.

 

[ncbrewer]

Well i had one more extract kit sitting around. I scaled it down to 3 gal so i could try a full boil. I used a starter. I meticulously sanitized everything. I added the LME at the end of the boil. It was light lme. Its bubbling away in my 62 degree basement. Hopefully this will be twang free

Was the LME all of the extract, or did you add DME at the beginning? I ask because I've read that if hops are boiled in just water, it gives an unpleasant flavor - harsh, I think.

 

[daveMN]

Don't be surprised if you get the twang. That flavor comes from the lme.

I think that's where I was getting "the twang" from. That, and I put all the extract in at the beginning of the boil.

 

[Nicknack]

I started a thread a couple of weeks ago that seems very similar. I'm on my third batch (extract) and have a flavor that is consistent with each beer. It is less noticeable with my double ipa. It is frustrating because while others like the beer, the flavor ruins it for me. It's not that bad but I don't want any flavor/taste like this. I've tried describing it as almost a slight spicy taste. Again, very hard to describe. In the thread I started, someone mentioned that they thought it was the extract twang people sometimes complain about. That doesn't seem to describe the taste/smell that I get but maybe other people's description of twang is what I have. I have a few extract kits to use and if this continues, I'm going to AG because this just isn't very enjoyable.

 

[urg8rb8]

I think that's where I was getting "the twang" from. That, and I put all the extract in at the beginning of the boil.

I tried putting the lme at the end of the boil and it didn't help.

Best way to get rid of the twang.... switch to all grain.

 

[Rush]

I tried putting the lme at the end of the boil and it didn't help.

Best way to get rid of the twang.... switch to all grain.

To be honest, I agree. I'm an ardent fan on extract + grains brewing. I personally can't justify half a day to brewing at this point so I have learned to perfect my extract process and get some, in my opinion, damn good beer as a result.

Because of this, I tend to defend extract brewing because I know what's possible and that extract brews shouldn't be "expected" to have twang or similar flavor profiles.

However, if someone is becoming disinterested in the hobby or consistently being disappointed in their brews because of "twang", then switch to all-grain! I guarantee you won't have the twang brewing all-grain, but you'll just have to work around new issues and a longer brew day.

 

[ChubbyChipmunk]

Don't be surprised if you get the twang. That flavor comes from the lme.

The recipe had mostly dme. I only pit about a quarter of the lme in. Hoping to have minimal twang