RIMS for Dummies

[inspector13]

Well, I just ordered all my parts I need for this project. Did anyone have very high shipping and handling charges from Murray Supply? Indiana to Texas, for a few stainless fittings, $40.00. Wow, that is over half the value of the order!!!!!!!!!!! The shipping and handling was figures and sent to me in an e-mail after completing the sale. Looks like I will be calling about that.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Let us know....I wondered how their prices were so low.....

 

[Ohio-Ed]

My order was $14 shipping to Ohio.

 

[schaez]

I only ordered the 1.5" nipple and ten 1/2" nipples and shipping was $11 to Houston. I choose UPS ground and it came out to right were the UPS site estimated. The tees and bushings would have added a lot of weight though.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Something doesn't sound right. I was charged pretty much what the UPS estimate was also. I just did the calculations on the UPS website and to ship from Fort Wayne to your location via UPS Ground is $11.69 but for 2nd day air it is $42.00. Are you sure you didn't accidentally select 2nd day air for shipping?

 

[inspector13]

Something doesn't sound right. I was charged pretty much what the UPS estimate was also. I just did the calculations on the UPS website and to ship from Fort Wayne to your location via UPS Ground is $11.69 but for 2nd day air it is $42.00. Are you sure you didn't accidentally select 2nd day air for shipping?

I don't think so but, I did place three orders with the three different company at that time. I was just shocked when I looked at what had been withdrawn. I will give them a call Monday morning first thing. I'm sure they will straighten it out. Just excited about the new toys being on order.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I don't think so but, I did place three orders with the three different company at that time. I was just shocked when I looked at what had been withdrawn. I will give them a call Monday morning first thing. I'm sure they will straighten it out. Just excited about the new toys being on order.

You may not be able to do much about it if the parts are on your door step Monday. But then, hey... you get to get started sooner.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[inspector13]

You may not be able to do much about it if the parts are on your door step Monday. But then, hey... you get to get started sooner.

Let us know what you find out.

They were ordered late in the afternoon on New Years Eve and they were closed. will reopen Monday AM. I will call first thing.

 

[jrfuda]

I think Murray qouted me some outlandish shipping charge as well, initially, but when they sent the PDF invoice when they actually shipped, it was $13.30.

 

[jrfuda]

Got most of my build done today after the replacement RTD probe & 1/2 to 1/4 adapter arrived. Here are some pics. I'll likely start my own thread to detil the build once I get it completely done. Idea is a tabletop-type design that can store in minimal space. The RIMS will not rest on top of the control/toolbox during use. It will hang vertically on the side of my 10 gallon rubermaid, with the element-end on the bottom. Thanks Sawdustguy for the inspiration.

The toolbox:

Pump mounted on toolbox:

Detail of RIMS manifold:

Detail on wiring:

 

[saq]

Got most of my build done today after the replacement RTD probe & 1/2 to 1/4 adapter arrived. Here are some pics. I'll likely start my own thread to detil the build once I get it completely done. Idea is a tabletop-type design that can store in minimal space. The RIMS will not rest on top of the control/toolbox during use. It will hang vertically on the side of my 10 gallon rubermaid, with the element-end on the bottom. Thanks Sawdustguy for the inspiration.

Nice pics! Please detail how you built that control box! The biggest thing holding me up on getting the rest of the parts for this project yet is the electrical side of things, I'm totally useless when it comes to that.

 

[psbrewing]

Thank you for this post! I can't wait to make mine...

 

[Sawdustguy]

Got most of my build done today after the replacement RTD probe & 1/2 to 1/4 adapter arrived. Here are some pics. I'll likely start my own thread to detil the build once I get it completely done. Idea is a tabletop-type design that can store in minimal space. The RIMS will not rest on top of the control/toolbox during use. It will hang vertically on the side of my 10 gallon rubermaid, with the element-end on the bottom. Thanks Sawdustguy for the inspiration.

You are quite welcome. You have just come up with a RIMS solution for a apartment dweller. Using a 1000 to 1200 watt element allows you to use a standard wall outlet and the result is constant mash temps for a 5 gallon all grain apartment brewer. The thanks I get is seeing that I have inspired a few people. Great Job!

 

[jrfuda]

You are quite welcome. You have just come up with a RIMS solution for a apartment dweller. Using a 1000 to 1200 watt element allows you to use a standard wall outlet and the result is constant mash temps for a 5 gallon all grain apartment brewer. The thanks I get is seeing that I have inspired a few people. Great Job!

Not an apartment dweller (current home tad over 3000SF), but I'm in the military and have to move every 3 years or so, so space is not predictable. Hopefully, my move next summer will be the last before I'm retirement eligible, which means I may have the opportunity to get a more permanent dwelling then.

I do agree with your apartment dweller statement, however, and was also inspired by several of the table-top/apartment/toolbox systems throughout the board but found this and CodeRage's electrical primer the most beneficial.

 

[psbrewing]

I'm in the military and have to move every 3 years or so, so space is not predictable.

I am glad to see another military brewer here! I just had to stop brewing for about 6 months due to my training schedule here in wonderful OK, but will start as soon as I am in CO.

I love this system and am going to use the 1500W 120V Low density element in mine. I am however also going to use a propane burner to get my water near dough in temp and then use the RIMS for fine tuning...I am thinking the Brutus 20 with two types of heating...

I am still working on the whole design in my head. Could I incorporate both the RIMS and GAS heating for dummies in one structure?

 

[inspector13]

Well, I just ordered all my parts I need for this project. Did anyone have very high shipping and handling charges from Murray Supply? Indiana to Texas, for a few stainless fittings, $40.00. Wow, that is over half the value of the order!!!!!!!!!!! The shipping and handling was figures and sent to me in an e-mail after completing the sale. Looks like I will be calling about that.

Not sure what happened but, they changed shipping from $40.00 to $13.00. I can live with that. Nice people to talk with too. Life is good.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Glad to hear they worked with you on the shipping.
Enjoy your build.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Not sure what happened but, they changed shipping from $40.00 to $13.00. I can live with that. Nice people to talk with too. Life is good.

I think they have a shipping calculation problem with their shopping cart on their website. They actually calculate shipping manually when processing the order.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I think they have a shipping calculation problem with their shopping cart on their website. They actually calculate shipping manually when processing the order.

Hmmm... I don't even remember seeing a shipping estimate when I placed my order(s).

Ed

 

[mmb]

I've read through this thread a few times and maybe I'm missing it or the question was asked but...

Will this setup 1500W @120v be sufficient to raise the mash temp for step mashing or is this more of a system just for maintaining mash temps on a single infusion mash? This would be with a 10G cooler tun.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I've read through this thread a few times and maybe I'm missing it or the question was asked but...

Will this setup 1500W @120v be sufficient to raise the mash temp for step mashing or is this more of a system just for maintaining mash temps on a single infusion mash? This would be with a 10G cooler tun.

This weekend, I used a 1500watt element to raise the temp in my insulated 15gal keg from 154 to 160 in about 10 minutes. I cranked the RIMs heater up while heating 2.5gallons with propane to see what it would do.

So... I got about 6f in 10 minutes in a fairly full 15gallon keg out of 1500 watts.

Hope that helps.

Ed

 

[Sawdustguy]

I've read through this thread a few times and maybe I'm missing it or the question was asked but...

Will this setup 1500W @120v be sufficient to raise the mash temp for step mashing or is this more of a system just for maintaining mash temps on a single infusion mash? This would be with a 10G cooler tun.

A RIMS is a system that is designed to maintain the temperature of mash during a single infusion mash. It is not designed for a mash with protein rests. Just out of curiousity, why do you want to step mash?

 

[mmb]

A RIMS is a system that is designed to maintain the temperature of mash during a single infusion mash. It is not designed for a mash with protein rests. Just out of curiousity, why do you want to step mash?

Mostly, I'd like the ability to step mash with high % adjunct beers. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with a single infusion. One more tool in the toolkit type thing, I suppose.

My cooler tun holds temp very well so I'm trying to justify building the RIMS element with a "and I can do this with it" argument. I do like this solution a little better than a direct fire RIMS mash.

Something like a quasi brutus10 electric/propane hybrid thing...

 

[TimWeber]

Oh, I have read all of the thoughts on step mashing from everyone on seperate threads. And I dont want to jack this thread.

I normally use a single infusion mash but sometimes a step mash becomes neccessary. When using continental pilsner malt, when using lots of wheat malt or unmalted wheat, when making a weizen, when making a sour are a few cases that come to mind. There is actually a great article in latest The New Brewer on the benefits of a multi stepping mash regime to making an excellent wiezen. You could even consider going between your saccharification rest and mash out as a step.

That said. I am following sawdustguys build and have all of the parts on order now, except I am using a BCS-460 as the controller. I plan on using the RIMS to hold individual mash temperatures and I will direct fire the mash tun in order to step mash. This is the same principal that the Brew Magic uses.

Thanks again for this thread. It inspired me, and showed me the benefits of a RIMS based brewery over a HERMS. Simplicity and tighter control.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Oh, I have read all of the thoughts on step mashing from everyone on seperate threads. And I dont want to jack this thread.

I normally use a single infusion mash but sometimes a step mash becomes neccessary. When using continental pilsner malt, when using lots of wheat malt or unmalted wheat, when making a weizen, when making a sour are a few cases that come to mind. There is actually a great article in latest The New Brewer on the benefits of a multi stepping mash regime to making an excellent wiezen. You could even consider going between your saccharification rest and mash out as a step.

That said. I am following sawdustguys build and have all of the parts on order now, except I am using a BCS-460 as the controller. I plan on using the RIMS to hold individual mash temperatures and I will direct fire the mash tun in order to step mash. This is the same principal that the Brew Magic uses.

Thanks again for this thread. It inspired me, and showed me the benefits of a RIMS based brewery over a HERMS. Simplicity and tighter controller.

We agree on some wheat malts. Thank you for the compliment. I am glad people are benefitting from the thread. The BCS-460 is a good choice for automation. I chose the Brewtroller because of the ability to read pressure sensors for volume readings. I like the BCS-460 remote operation capabilities though. The Brewtroller is not quite there with remote operation yet. Best of luck.

 

[inspector13]

I picked up a plastic junction box (12x12x6) from Lowe's for the controls. Will I need to add ventilation to this box?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I picked up a plastic junction box (12x12x6) from Lowe's for the controls. Will I need to add ventilation to this box?

Depends on what you have going on in the box. Take a look at this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ssr-heat-concerns-147508/

I have been using it like this, with no ventilation. I am aware that it may shorten the life of the ssr, but I wanted the box fairly tight.
By the way... I do NOT have the PID in the same box... I have it in a separate box with a removable "control" line between the two so I can use the PID as a separate digital thermometer.

Ed

 

[jrfuda]

This is just out of curiosity...

To those of you who have built this, what kind value did you have to put for Pb (diff between PID reading and actual temp) to get your PID to be in synch with the actual temp of the liquild flowing through the RIMS?

For me, i had to put a +5.3 on mine. Once I did this (it took a while to get it just right, used 154 as a ref temp) I was able to get identical readings on my PID, digital thermometer I had stuck in the 10 gallon rubbermaid MLT and the Brewometer I have mounted in the MLT.

I had previously calibrated the Brewometer to the Digital therm using the boiling RO water trick (which confirmed the accuracy of the digital), did the same with my deep-fryer themo and my milk frothing thermo - and now my PID, so they're all calibrated.

By the way, the auto tuning feature on the PID is great. Once I set the appropriate variable (AT=2, I think) it did it's thing and found the right settings. It had no problem maintaing the 154 I set it to once the auto tuning completed.

 

[samc]

I picked up a plastic junction box (12x12x6) from Lowe's for the controls. Will I need to add ventilation to this box?

I drilled a hole in the bottom and installed a small computer fan blowing air out, covered the opening with stainless mesh. Doubt very much if water can get inside unless I ran the cart through a large puddle of split wort!

 

[TimWeber]

Maybe it was already mentioned, but I didnt see it in the wiring diagram. Where do you ground the RIMS? Or is it not neccessary.

 

[The Pol]

Thanks for the tip on Murray Equipment. Nice pricing, the same as copper in most cases. They are also only 120 miles from me, so shipping should be cheap and fast!

 

[jrfuda]

Maybe it was already mentioned, but I didnt see it in the wiring diagram. Where do you ground the RIMS? Or is it not neccessary.

I ran the ground wire out of the the pipe/epoxy seal I put on the element connection and the wrapped and soldered it to one of the u-clamps holding the RIMS manifold to my mount. I'll try and post a pic this weekend, but I think one of the other system pics in this thread shows how it's done too (that's where I got the idea).

 

[The Pol]

I would assume that it is best to have your INlet and OUTlet to the RIMS facing UP so that if you lose fluid flow, your heater does NOT go dry and melt your elements mid brew. Makes sense.

This being said, anyone building a drain so that you can drain the RIMS heater dry after a session so that you dont have your elements soaking 365 days a year in water and cleanser? I mean, using a CROSS instead of a TEE so that you can have the element opening(horizontal), RIMS tube opening (horizontal), INlet opening(vertical UP) and a DRAIN opening (vertical facing down)

 

[jrfuda]

...anyone building a drain so that you can drain the RIMS heater dry after a session so that you dont have your elements soaking 365 days a year in water and cleanser? I mean, using a CROSS instead of a TEE so that you can have the element opening(horizontal), RIMS tube opening (horizontal), INlet opening(vertical UP) and a DRAIN opening (vertical facing down)

I've got both of mine facing up, but since it's just mounted on a small base, and not to a brewstand, I can simply lift the whole thing to drain it. This will both let me get every last drop of wort out as well as enable me to more easily invert it to dran it dry when I'm cleaning it.

If you mount it to a brewstand, here's what I would suggest:

- Mount the RIMS manifold to a metal or wood base using the u/muffler clamps.

- Mount this base to your brewstand using bolts (permanantly installed in the stand) and wingnuts. You could probably get away with 2 of these, then all you have to do is remove the wingnuts, slide the base off of the bolts attached to the stand and do whatever you want to it. It's much easier to mess with a couple of wing nuts than 4 bolts on 2 clamps. Other options could be doing the same with a hitch pin / cotter pin arangement.

 

[The Pol]

I think it would be easier to use a CROSS and simply put a valve on the 4th side. After the brew session, open the valve and drain. But that is me.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I would assume that it is best to have your INlet and OUTlet to the RIMS facing UP so that if you lose fluid flow, your heater does NOT go dry and melt your elements mid brew. Makes sense.

This being said, anyone building a drain so that you can drain the RIMS heater dry after a session so that you dont have your elements soaking 365 days a year in water and cleanser? I mean, using a CROSS instead of a TEE so that you can have the element opening(horizontal), RIMS tube opening (horizontal), INlet opening(vertical UP) and a DRAIN opening (vertical facing down)

I have my Tee's oriented in opposite directions... The inlet is on the bottom, the outlet is on top. The RIM's "tube" is horizontal. When I pull the QD on the inlet, it drains. I just make sure I don't fire the element until the pump is flowing wort through the heater.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Maybe it was already mentioned, but I didnt see it in the wiring diagram. Where do you ground the RIMS? Or is it not neccessary.

Here is a few pictures of the RIMS Heater I built. I used an electrical box instead of the epoxy routine to "pot" the connections. So there is a grounding stud in the box. This is based on what I saw on another site.

There is a silicon o-ring and a SS washer between the box cover and the bushing on the heater. What I like about this is that the o-ring is thicker than the washer but fits inside the id of the washer. With the 2" bushing, there is enough flat area that I can tighten it down until the cover/washer/bushing make secure contact and the o-ring makes a nice seal.

Ed

 

[The Pol]

I have my Tee's oriented in opposite directions... The inlet is on the bottom, the outlet is on top. The RIM's "tube" is horizontal. When I pull the QD on the inlet, it drains. I just make sure I don't fire the element until the pump is flowing wort through the heater.

What happens if you get a stuck mash during the recirc?

 

[CodeRage]

I would assume that it is best to have your INlet and OUTlet to the RIMS facing UP so that if you lose fluid flow, your heater does NOT go dry and melt your elements mid brew. Makes sense.

This being said, anyone building a drain so that you can drain the RIMS heater dry after a session so that you dont have your elements soaking 365 days a year in water and cleanser? I mean, using a CROSS instead of a TEE so that you can have the element opening(horizontal), RIMS tube opening (horizontal), INlet opening(vertical UP) and a DRAIN opening (vertical facing down)

Both inlets up won't save you from a stop in flow. The element will heat that small amount of fluid in the chamber up so fast and boil it off in a heart beat. You'll buy yourself maybe 15 seconds if that. I designed mine so that if flow stops gravity will keep feeding it from the MLT. The idea was as steam left cool mash runnings would replace it. Well, it kind of turns into a pressure cooker and will burn the crap out of what ever is sitting on the element.

I know most tube and shell heat exchangers use in one side out the opposite to promote turbulence and even distribution. Don't see why replacing the tube with an element would be any different.

As for draining. My setup comes straight in the front and out the bottom of the Hex. There is a dump valve at the lowest point of my plumbing. Open it up and every thing drains completely.

 

[The Pol]

Well, if you have the inlet and outlet facing up, and get a stuck mash, the RIMS heater wont drain itself with a stop in flow. IF you get a stuck mash, gravity wont feed from the MLT to the heater, becuase your mash is stuck in the first place.

I assumed that the temp. probe in the tube would keep the element from heating the fluid to a boiling temp. I mean, it is set at 155F or so? Wouldnt the chamber ONLY heat to 155F and therefore not boil off? I mean, in 15 seconds, wouldnt the PID shut off the element once the fluid reached 156F?

Guess I was wrong?