Hello there,
I have an opportunity to get some fresh pressed apple juice from a orchard this next winter. So I'm making all my plan to be ready when the time will come.
Most part of the question I'm still asking myself are about sulphite and I would like to opinions on some specific point.
But first, here comes what I get from all my research into all your message, thanks a lot for all the info provided.
Sulphite does 3 things, it kills bacteria, it stop yeast reproduction and it prevent oxidation and so improve shelf live.
To kill bacteria, we need the molecular SO2 level to be on the 0.4-0.8mg/L range
To prevent oxidation, we want the free* SO2 level to be on the 30-100mg/L range
For all those two purpose, we use Potasium Metabisulfite (campden) or Sodium metabisulfite (?). Calculation must be done including the pH level of the juice for example with this tool : www.fermcalc.com/FermCalcJS.html
So this part of the job must be done before pitching a selected yeast to kill the other competitor in the juice and every time the free SO2 level is too low.
To inhibit (not kill) the yeast grow we Potassium Sorbate (k-meta). But is it sulphite ? So if we rack our cider and let all the yeast behind, even if we add fermentable sugar, yeast will not be able to come back and eat it.
Is that correct?
Now I have to decide when and why I should or should not use all those chemical product in my process and would love to have advice on it.
- I have to make some road with the bucket full of juice in my car, so will campdem helps to prevent from oxidation or is it useless because yeast will need O2 to grow and will eat it protecting the juice?
- I don't want too much funkiness in my final product and since I can't control what happened to the apple before I get the juice I have no choice but using selected yeast. So campden once again is the easy way. But If I pitch a good healthy yeast just as I get my juice, what is the risk? Even if the natural yeast are also in there, their impact will be quite light and just add some complexity or I'm a fool to think that?
- Once I add campden into a closed bucket with apple juice, does it mean that (if bucked is clean) I can keep this juice like this for a while and ferment it later? Like weeks or month?
- If I add sulphite before fermentation, does it also play the conservative and anti-oxidant role during the whole time including in the bottle (long shelf live) or does it need a new addition post-fermentation? Do you think it's a good idea to buy a kit that can give me the SO2 concentration and test the cider once in a while to be sure the free SO2 level is ok? Any example of good quality kit?
- I know campden can be tasted in cider. Is it the SO2 that we taste or another component. If it's SO2, solution should be to always stay under a certain level of free SO2 by measuring it?
- K-meta is it SO2? Is it also known allergic trouble possibility with it?
- Is there any books out there that I should read about this?
I recently had the chance to find a bottle of cider coming from the Tom Oliver's Cidery who is a kind of final boss of the game and I was surprised to see on the bottle that it contained sulphite. It surprised me because I know he never add yeast into his cider (so he doesn't add sulphite before fermenting) and the cider was not still so that means sulphite is not use to kill the yeast before bottling (except if the guy make forced carbonatation but I don't think so). So I guess it's just SO2 to help shelf live.
A lot of question and maybe not really well written. Thanks and sorry.
*Free SO2 is the portion that is not bound with aldehydes, sugars or other oxidizable substances in the wine, is the form that is available for anti-oxidant protection and anti-microbial activity. Free SO2 will disappear over time into a wine, binding with the above-mentioned substrates, causing the ability of a wine to retard oxygen and microbes to decline as well.
I have an opportunity to get some fresh pressed apple juice from a orchard this next winter. So I'm making all my plan to be ready when the time will come.
Most part of the question I'm still asking myself are about sulphite and I would like to opinions on some specific point.
But first, here comes what I get from all my research into all your message, thanks a lot for all the info provided.
Sulphite does 3 things, it kills bacteria, it stop yeast reproduction and it prevent oxidation and so improve shelf live.
To kill bacteria, we need the molecular SO2 level to be on the 0.4-0.8mg/L range
To prevent oxidation, we want the free* SO2 level to be on the 30-100mg/L range
For all those two purpose, we use Potasium Metabisulfite (campden) or Sodium metabisulfite (?). Calculation must be done including the pH level of the juice for example with this tool : www.fermcalc.com/FermCalcJS.html
So this part of the job must be done before pitching a selected yeast to kill the other competitor in the juice and every time the free SO2 level is too low.
To inhibit (not kill) the yeast grow we Potassium Sorbate (k-meta). But is it sulphite ? So if we rack our cider and let all the yeast behind, even if we add fermentable sugar, yeast will not be able to come back and eat it.
Is that correct?
Now I have to decide when and why I should or should not use all those chemical product in my process and would love to have advice on it.
- I have to make some road with the bucket full of juice in my car, so will campdem helps to prevent from oxidation or is it useless because yeast will need O2 to grow and will eat it protecting the juice?
- I don't want too much funkiness in my final product and since I can't control what happened to the apple before I get the juice I have no choice but using selected yeast. So campden once again is the easy way. But If I pitch a good healthy yeast just as I get my juice, what is the risk? Even if the natural yeast are also in there, their impact will be quite light and just add some complexity or I'm a fool to think that?
- Once I add campden into a closed bucket with apple juice, does it mean that (if bucked is clean) I can keep this juice like this for a while and ferment it later? Like weeks or month?
- If I add sulphite before fermentation, does it also play the conservative and anti-oxidant role during the whole time including in the bottle (long shelf live) or does it need a new addition post-fermentation? Do you think it's a good idea to buy a kit that can give me the SO2 concentration and test the cider once in a while to be sure the free SO2 level is ok? Any example of good quality kit?
- I know campden can be tasted in cider. Is it the SO2 that we taste or another component. If it's SO2, solution should be to always stay under a certain level of free SO2 by measuring it?
- K-meta is it SO2? Is it also known allergic trouble possibility with it?
- Is there any books out there that I should read about this?
I recently had the chance to find a bottle of cider coming from the Tom Oliver's Cidery who is a kind of final boss of the game and I was surprised to see on the bottle that it contained sulphite. It surprised me because I know he never add yeast into his cider (so he doesn't add sulphite before fermenting) and the cider was not still so that means sulphite is not use to kill the yeast before bottling (except if the guy make forced carbonatation but I don't think so). So I guess it's just SO2 to help shelf live.
A lot of question and maybe not really well written. Thanks and sorry.
*Free SO2 is the portion that is not bound with aldehydes, sugars or other oxidizable substances in the wine, is the form that is available for anti-oxidant protection and anti-microbial activity. Free SO2 will disappear over time into a wine, binding with the above-mentioned substrates, causing the ability of a wine to retard oxygen and microbes to decline as well.