Pumpkin Ale tasting harsh and sour

[Axelvilhelm]

Hi there,
yesterday I tasted the first bottle of a pumpkin ale I made, and honestly, it was a slight dissapointment. The taste was quite harsh and a bit sour.

On brewday, everything went fine, after 2 weeks in the primary, the taste was just fine, and just prior to bottling the taste was nice and smooth. But now, 2 weeks after bottling "smooth" is probably the last word I'd use to describe the taste. What can have happened during these two weeks? The bottling process went fine, so it's quite unlikely any contamination occured there.

One thing; I used wort for priming, and while boiling that wort to sanitize it, I added some more spices (cinnamon, pepper and probably too much nutmeg). Still, the beer tasted nice and smooth, even after adding the boiled and spiced wort. The harshness actually has some nutmeg to it. But what about the sourness? Can it also be caused by the nutmeg, or is my beer possibly infected? Will aging make it better or worse?

On the other hand, the test bottle probably has more nutmeg taste in it than the rest, because it was the last one I racked, and it contained all of the spices that settled to the bottom during bottling. Still, i don't like the harshness and sourness at all, even if there weren't that much of it.

 

[venomfast]

Are the bottles well sanitized also time may mellow it out i have a pumpkin beer i made in September that is just now getting mellow and smooth

 

[Axelvilhelm]

Are the bottles well sanitized also time may mellow it out i have a pumpkin beer i made in September that is just now getting mellow and smooth

Thanks for your reply! I sanitized the bottles by pouring star san solution into them, and shaking them lightly. It's the same procedure I've used before, and I have never had an infected beer, so far.

But i think I'll wait for a month or so, before I open the next bottle. Everybody seems to say Pumpkin beer needs time.

How did your pumpkin beer taste before bottling?

 

[aprichman]

To be completely effective StarSan is supposed to make direct contact for at least 1 minute. The first time I brewed I had bottle sanitation issues and I applied StarSan the same way you describe - get some StarSan in the beer bottle, give them a a good shake, and then put the bottles on a sanitized bottle tree.

The next time I bottled I decided to follow the StarSan directions EXACTLY. I was actually taking an analytic chemistry course at the time which was centered around doing very precise work in the laboratory. The class showed me how important following directions can be - one small mistake during an experimental lab procedure could drastically alter the results, which meant restarting the experiment and losing hours of work.

Since making the switch to 1+ minute I haven't had any problems. Could just be a coincidence but I think that wild yeast could possibly survive minimal contact with a weak acid like StarSan. Keep in mind that beer itself is rather low in pH and wine is even lower, so yeasts definitely don't mind a little bit of acidity.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I made my pumpkin ale back in September. After the first two weeks, and every subsequent week thereafter, the beer had a different taste. Let's see if I can recall...

Week 2 - Nasty
Week 3 - Not as nasty
Week 4 - Skipped this week. I was disappointed.
Week 5 - Mouth full of allspice.
Week 6 - Allspice and nutmeg. Better?
Week 7 - Kinda tastes like pumpkin.
Week 8 - Not bad, but too much cinnamon.
Week 9 - Almost there.
Week 10 - It's good.

Moral of the story. Pumpkin is stupid. Next year I will make it in July-ish and just let it ride until October. So assuming you're not infected (I doubt you are) you just need to sit on it for a while and let science happen.

 

[Axelvilhelm]

Ok, I think I have to l ook over my bottle sanitation routines. I brew quite small batches, so I could just drown them all in a 30 liter fermentation bucket filled with starsan, and keep them there for a cpl of minutes. Or do you have better suggestions?

But more than anything, it seems like a spiced pumpkin beer needs time, like FloppyKnockers post suggests.

Thanks for your replies!

 

[JohnSand]

Agree that pumpkin needs time. I made mine early September, it tasted great at bottling three weeks later. At Halloween it was barely okay, a bit tart. At Thanksgiving it was a little better, but the family didn't ask for seconds. Last night it was good enough for a "You made this?". It's even clearer now too, and with a better head.
I think your dunk method of sanitizing is fine. The bottles don't dry off in less than a minute, or even ten.

 

[whatsleftofyou]

How much of each spice did you add?

For 6g I do:
.75tsp each - Cinnamon, Clove, Ginger
.5tsp - Freshly grated nutmeg

It's always drinkable right away, but much better after a few weeks.

 

[Axelvilhelm]

Well, I didn't measure so exactly, but roughly it might have been something like this:

At the end of the boil (10 min left) I added about 1/4 tsp of ground nutmeg, a 4 cm cinnamon stick (abt 1,5 inch) and maybe 7 peppercorns.

Prior to bottling, I couldn't taste any of the spices in the beer, so I decided to add some. While boiling the wort I used for priming, I added abt the same amount of each spice, boiling it abt 10 mins.

Batch size is about 2,5 g (12 liters), so compared to your pumpkin beer, I used more spices.

And as I said, I think the nasty taste comes from nutmeg. Where the slight sourness comes from, I can't tell. Can it also be a result of too much nutmeg?

Just before bottling, after adding the spiced wort, the taste was really nice.


Edit: but as I wrote in the first message, the test bottle probably had many times more nutmeg than the other bottles.

 

[whatsleftofyou]

I've noticed that a lot of nutmeg can come across as metallic/astringent, so I'm guessing that's what you're perceiving.

 

[Axelvilhelm]

I've noticed that a lot of nutmeg can come across as metallic/astringent, so I'm guessing that's what you're perceiving.

Yes, that seems likely. Too much spice is probably best cured by time.

 

[aprichman]

Ok, I think I have to l ook over my bottle sanitation routines. I brew quite small batches, so I could just drown them all in a 30 liter fermentation bucket filled with starsan, and keep them there for a cpl of minutes. Or do you have better suggestions?

But more than anything, it seems like a spiced pumpkin beer needs time, like FloppyKnockers post suggests.

Thanks for your replies!

I use my bottling bucket and make 2.5 gallons of StarSan (1 tbsp of StarSan is needed for 2.5 gallons). First I take apart my bottle tree and sanitize it. Next I submerge 12 oz bottles in the solution, making sure the StarSan entirely fills the bottles. Usually 6 bottles can fit in there at a time. I leave the bottles submerged for a couple of minutes and pour out the StarSan as gently as possible (this helps bubbles from forming in the bottles). The empty bottles go on the bottle tree and then I soak the next batch and repeat until done.

I usually brew 2.5 gallon batches so ~24-30 bottles takes me around 15-20 minutes to get through.

 

[Axelvilhelm]

I use my bottling bucket and make 2.5 gallons of StarSan (1 tbsp of StarSan is needed for 2.5 gallons). First I take apart my bottle tree and sanitize it. Next I submerge 12 oz bottles in the solution, making sure the StarSan entirely fills the bottles. Usually 6 bottles can fit in there at a time. I leave the bottles submerged for a couple of minutes and pour out the StarSan as gently as possible (this helps bubbles from forming in the bottles). The empty bottles go on the bottle tree and then I soak the next batch and repeat until done.

I usually brew 2.5 gallon batches so ~24-30 bottles takes me around 15-20 minutes to get through.

That's definitely worth the minimal time and effort, not having to worry about whether the bottles are sterile. Thanks for your reply!

 

[Axelvilhelm]

Yesterday I tasted another bottle of my spiced pumpkin ale. It had the same harsh and sour taste, but not fully as bad as 3 weeks earlier. The nutmeg part is obvious: I used way too much of it. But what might be the origin of the sourness? It's not a fruity sourness, but more vinegar-like. The sourness is abt the same as 3 weeks earlier, the nutmeg has mellowed down a bit.

 

[JohnSand]

Vinegar can be a sign of infection, I believe.
But my Pumpkin tasted kind of tart for a while, then mellowed. It was over two months from bottling before it peaked.

 

[Axelvilhelm]

Ok. I'm starting to fear infection, but I'll still let the beer age for a couple of months, to see how the taste develops. If it is infected, should the taste then worsen over time?

 

[JohnSand]

It might, it also may become more carbonated. Give it time, brew something else. Also let some other brewers or craft beer fans try it and see what they think.

 

[masonsjax]

My first pumpkin spice ale I used ground cinnamon, which never settled out and the beer tasted a little harsh. I see you said you used cinnamon stick, so it's not that, but maybe nutmeg you added could have the same affect?

 

[Axelvilhelm]

Ok, thanks for your replies. Luckily, I just got a witbier ready, so I still have something to drink I brewed it with exactly the same equipment, and this one seems fine (at least after 3 weeks in bottles), so the equipment probably doesn't need to be replaced.

So, if this is a case of acetic acid, should there then be visible signs of a vinegar mother in the bottles? There is some stuff floating around, that don't settle that well to the bottom, but that looks more like a mixture of pumpkin pulp and spices. Otherwise the beer is crystal clear. In fact clearer than most beers I made.

I seriously have to brew a new batch soon, so I can forget about this one for a while

Good idea to have some else taste it. At least it don't make you sick; I had one bottle yesterday, and still feel normal.

Edit: added an image of a clear bottle, that I've swirled gently to mix up the floaties

 

[Axelvilhelm]

I'm glad to announce that this has now developed into a very pleasant beer! The harsh nutmeg notes has eventually mellowed out to an extent where it's not disturbing, but soft and smooth. The sourness is still there, and it remains a mystery what's caused it. It's kind of a lambic-like sourness, that actually tastes quite nice, and goes well with the spicy flavour. It could have a fuller body, but otherwise, 5 months of waiting has made this into a really tasty brew!

 

[JohnSand]

Mine was a bit tart too, but good. I'm glad yours matured.

 

[Burd's Brews]

Having a similar experience right now with a Lacto-Soured Pumpkin Ale. I brewed this last year and it was a big hit, sparsely hopped (20 IBU) with a pH of around 3.3. One comments I got on it was that it could be more sour, so I let it go to a pH of 3.0 this time around. Also hopped it a bit more, theoretical IBU bumped from 20 to 35, and added about 50% more pumpkin.

Last year's brew finished around 1.010 and this year's brew finished a bit drier at 1.003, and it's a very noticeable difference. Also, there is a harsh, somewhat vegetal finish. I'm not getting the typical "sour" flavor from it, which I believe is a result of the dryness. I generally associate sweetness with sour beers. I expected that the yeast would not be as efficient in the lower pH, but it did not seem to be a problem.

It's getting better as time goes on, the harshness is fading, but I was wondering what the source of that harsh flavor might be. Everything except the additional pumpkin, and a slight bump in gravity overall (same proportions of grains) was the same with this beer as the first one.

 

[JohnSand]

Nothing comes to mind right now.
This thread is a few years old. If you don't get helpful replies here, you might want to start a separate thread.

 

[Bobby_M]

Having a similar experience right now with a Lacto-Soured Pumpkin Ale. I brewed this last year and it was a big hit, sparsely hopped (20 IBU) with a pH of around 3.3. One comments I got on it was that it could be more sour, so I let it go to a pH of 3.0 this time around. Also hopped it a bit more, theoretical IBU bumped from 20 to 35, and added about 50% more pumpkin.

Last year's brew finished around 1.010 and this year's brew finished a bit drier at 1.003, and it's a very noticeable difference. Also, there is a harsh, somewhat vegetal finish. I'm not getting the typical "sour" flavor from it, which I believe is a result of the dryness. I generally associate sweetness with sour beers. I expected that the yeast would not be as efficient in the lower pH, but it did not seem to be a problem.

It's getting better as time goes on, the harshness is fading, but I was wondering what the source of that harsh flavor might be. Everything except the additional pumpkin, and a slight bump in gravity overall (same proportions of grains) was the same with this beer as the first one.

Post the entire recipe for better contextual help.

 

[nonamekevin]

Glad I saw this, I was about to pitch my pumpkin beer. Two weeks ago (still in the fermenter) it wasn't bad, very sweet on the nose. Now (four weeks in the fermenter) it's quite sour. I'm not sure if I should let it sit in the fermenter longer or just keg it and let it sit. If I'm gonna brew next week, I need to get it out of the fermenter...

 

[JohnSand]

I think that depends on how many kegs you have available. I always have some free, I would keg.