Over Thanksgiving dinner drinking some homebrew, my dad and I started discussing ale vs. lager. He loves Sam Adams Boston Lager and claims it is so smooth because it is a lager. I yelled BS and said I can make an ALE version of Sam Adams Boston Lager that he wouldn't be able to taste the difference. Anyone have a recipe for an all-grain batch of Sam Adams Boston Lager as an ALE? THANKS!
Please help me win a bet! :)
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Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
Why don't you just make a lager version of Sam Adams Boston lager? Lagering is easy.
I could, but that's not the point of the bet. I want to prove that he can't taste the difference between an ale and a lager.
bandt9299
Well-Known Member
Good luck, when you clone it as an ale let me know, I think it will be very tough, getting that clean malty lager taste will be tough with ale yeast.
I guess the desire to one-up the old man will be a good motivator. Good luck also.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
You could always lager it and not tell him. 
If you can do this, you'll probably win money from whoever you bet on this forum, too! I can make some pretty good ales with neutral yeast and ferment at very low range for ales, and still can't make it exactly like a lager. My "Fizzy Yellow Beer" is well liked by BMC drinkers, but even they will tell you that it's not a lager. Way too much ale characteristic for a lager.
A well made lager will not taste like an ale. And a well made ale will not taste like a lager.
Believe me. It has to be close but not a dead on. Let's try this way... What would be the best yeast strain that could mimic that malty taste of Sam? I can get the grain bill pretty close and the hops pretty close.
Beertools has several Boston lager clones. Just look through them and brew with safale US-05, I would go with two packs to mimic the overpitching of commercial beers, and try to ferment at the lowest end of the temp range for the yeast you can get to.
http://www.beertools.com/html/recip...op=none&text=Boston+Lager&sort=recent&order=d
This one claims to have gotten the ingredients or recipe from SA>
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/beerandweather/sablg.html
http://www.beertools.com/html/recip...op=none&text=Boston+Lager&sort=recent&order=d
This one claims to have gotten the ingredients or recipe from SA>
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/beerandweather/sablg.html
Any Wyeast or White Labs equivelant to that? Thanks for you help everyone!
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
Why? You're not happy unless you're spending more? heh
78kombi
Well-Known Member
Thinkin' - Sam Adams Boston Lager as an ale.
you know they make boston ale also.which im willing to bet is the same recipe as the lager, just a different yeast. I think yer ol' mans gonna beat you on this one.
you know they make boston ale also.which im willing to bet is the same recipe as the lager, just a different yeast. I think yer ol' mans gonna beat you on this one.
daveooph131
Well-Known Member
I would use WLP029 the Kolsch yeast. Feremented at low enough temps it will give you a very close lager character. I use this yeast for a lot of brews including my pale ale.
Some of my beer friends, that aren't heavy craft drinkes think they are lagers. I would recommend trying to hold the fermentation temp between 60-62f.
You'll have to blindfold him for the taste test. If he can see the beers he's sampling, he'll be able to tell just by visual inspection probably.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
If you really have an aversion to dry yeast and have to use liquid, I'd consider using Pacman.
Rushis
Well-Known Member
+1 this. yep
I have heard that but never tasted it. I would love to try some of it. I might just brew that and see what happens. I have read that WLP008 is the exact strain they use for the ale.
My old man is wacky, his beer taste is not very refined. He is going to lose the bet if I make something good or not!
I second CshreCat's suggestion of Pacman, although again I think S-05 is an excellent choice and you don't have to worry about starters and all that. Ferment that sucker in the high 50's up to maybe 60F.
Of course it will still taste like an ale, but maybe your dad won't be able to taste the difference.
Of course it will still taste like an ale, but maybe your dad won't be able to taste the difference.
I guess it's just comfort, I am relatively new to brewing and all I have used up till this point was Wyeast. I know where I can get it locally.
I guarantee the same place that sells Wyeast should also sell Safale S-05. And it's super easy to use.
Seriously, why the heck would you waste money on a liquid version of Us-05???????
Us-05 IS the same strain, the famed Chico strain. In fact there's really no point in spending the extra bucks on 1056, and having to make a starter when you want a clean ale yeast.
I have found that a lot of new brewers especially, THINK they HAVE to use liquid yeast, but in reality most ales can be made with Notty, Windsor, Us-05, Us-04 and many lagers with basic Saflager.....7-8 bucks a pop for liquid as opposed to $1.50-2.50 for dry, with more cell count, is imho just a waste of money for the majority of a brewer's recipe bank...most commercial ales us a limited range of strains, and those liquid strains are really the same strains that the afore mentioned dry strains cover, for example Us-05 is the famed "Chico strain", so if you are paying 7-8 bucks for Wyeast 1056 American/Chico Ale Yeast, and you STILL have to make a starter to have enough viable cells, then you are ripping yourself off, in terms of time and money....
I use dry yeast for 99% of my beers, for basic ales I use safale 05, for more british styles I us safale 04 and for basic lagers I use saflager..
The only time I use liquid yeast is if I am making a beer where the yeast drives the style, where certain flavor characteristics are derived from the yeast, such as phenols. Like Belgian beers, where you get spicy/peppery flavors from the yeast and higher temp fermentation. Or let's say a wheat beer (needing a lowly flocculant yest) or a Kholsch, where the style of the beer uses a specific yeast strain that is un available in dry form.
But if you are looking for a "clean" yeast profile, meaning about 90% of american ales, the 05, or nottingham is the way to go. Need "Bready" or yeasty for English ales, then 04 or windsor. Want a clean, low profile lager yeast- saflager usually does the trick.
For this beer, you don't NEED to use a liquid yeast...we're talking the best clean/neutral ale yeast out there, and it is dry....anythig else is a waste.
I wouldn't even use pacman, though I thought the same thing as my brother le chat. But pacman is not that neutral...at different temps it has different profiles.
For this bet you need the most lceanest and most neutral yeast possible to mimic the clean and neutral profile of lager yeast...and you will not find anything better than US-05 for that.
I would even bet you would lose your bet, if you DIDN'T used -05...even using it's equivelent in liquid form.
Over pitch with two packs and you will win.
78kombi
Well-Known Member
i only use dry yeast, it works just as well, unless you are really trying to impress someone with an exact replica. yeast profiles can make a huge difference, if you know they use a specific brand id try that , but again, i enjoy buying 4 or 5 packs of dry yeast for the price of one vial , this way i always have some.
but definitely you will have to mimick a lager style fermentation as much as possible by keeping the temps as low as you can for an ale yeast, itll take alot longer.
homebrewer_99
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I made the Sam Adam's Boston Lager (Clone Brews, page 156), but used Nottingham yeast.
I called it "Not SA Boston Ale". Can't say it tastes like the original, but it's tasty all the same.
I called it "Not SA Boston Ale". Can't say it tastes like the original, but it's tasty all the same.
DrinksWellWithOthers
Well-Known Member
What about Wyeast California Lager yeast?
Particularly suited for producing 19th century-style West Coast beers. Retains lager characteristics at temperatures up to 65° F, (18° C) and produces malty, brilliantly clear beers. This strain is not recommended for cold temperature fermentation.
Origin:
Flocculation: high
Attenuation: 67-71%
Temperature Range: 58-68° F (14-20° C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 9% ABV
Particularly suited for producing 19th century-style West Coast beers. Retains lager characteristics at temperatures up to 65° F, (18° C) and produces malty, brilliantly clear beers. This strain is not recommended for cold temperature fermentation.
Origin:
Flocculation: high
Attenuation: 67-71%
Temperature Range: 58-68° F (14-20° C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 9% ABV
Synovia
Well-Known Member
I would definitely overpitch if you're trying to get it real clean. This might be one where pitching on a cake is a good idea.
Methinks using a hybrid like that might be cheating. I think the bet is still about using a true ale yeast for a lager. Though it would make a great beer.
kanzimonson
Well-Known Member
What about a kolsch or an alt yeast?
gallagherman
Well-Known Member
This will be interesting. Lagers do taste smoother for a reason, they've been lagered. Brewing with a lower fermenting ale yeast like kölsch yeast will give some lager qualities I suppose, but what have you proved at that point? Perhaps only that ales brewed and treated like lagers will take on some lager characteristics. At that point I think your dad will have won the bet.
dfohio
Well-Known Member
I'll take that bet because it definitely isn't the same recipe.
Kind of off topic, but...
You know I've seen this line said a lot recently, and I think thats a big misnomer of homebrewers. Commercial breweries don't overpitch so much as homebrewers massively underpitch.
Semantics, semantics
......the point is that commercial breweries pitch a huge amount of yeast, and that's why they have fast and often very clean fermentations. And that's all that matters, and all that I was going for.Semantics, semantics
If you look at the Weast website, they recommend that each activator pack is for up to 1.060! I think half my brews were at or above the 1.055-1.060+ mark. I have never used more than one pack of dry/liquid yeast....
Now begs the question, if your OG is 1.055, use two packs?
Also very interested in the results of the brew. Any updates?
Boerderij_Kabouter
Well-Known Member
Bit of a zombie thread, but this is correct. Pitching a correct number of healthy yeast will drastically improve your beer and reduce to to the glass. I have found liquid yeasts with a proper starter to be superior to dry yeasts. Yes, I treat the dry yeast right and rehydrate it. They turn out fine, but I have longer lag times, less vigorous fermentations, and the beer does not have the same pop as beer pitched with a proper amount of active yeast from a liquid starter culture.
You don't have to make a starter. The choice is up to you. You can do kit and kilo kits too, it all comes down to choices.
Rhoobarb
Well-Known Member
Yeah, what happened? I hope you didn't piss off the old man to the point that he went all Marvin Gaye on you!
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