Opening Ale Pail to get SG samples

[AirRageous]

I posted this in the sticky thread above about primary to secondary but I think it got lost in the crowd.

I keep reading that the only sure way to know for sure when to rack to secondary, or to bottle, is to take daily SG measurments for several days and rack when they stabilize plus a few days. My primary is an Ale Pail. It seems to me that if I pry the top off to get a sample, then reseal it each day for several days, oxygen will and other contaminents may, get into my beer. Is this a good thing to risk? Is there a better set-up to get the SG samples from an Ale Pail without risk of contamination?

What about installing a spigot in the side of the pail about midway up to draw off samples?

 

[petep1980]

That's what I thought of doing. What's probably the easiest to do is to get a 6 gallon carboy to primary in. The Ale Pail BLOWS for getting SG samples. At first it takes the strength of Herculus to get the thing off, and by the time you do it enough you'll find yourself thinking there has to be a better way.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

CO2 is heavier than air and thus will form a blanketover the beer. The pH of the beer post fermentation should be low enough to keep all but the most resilient of bugs out of your beer.

It is possible to get a contamination but, not likely as long as your sample thief is clean, sanitized, and you don;t drip snot into your beer. Capeesh?

Of course, this doesn't mean to check hourly for signs of reduced life. Generally, once a day for 2 to 3 days after fermentation has progressed for a week.

Eventually, when you have a pipeline of beer it will become a lot easier to resist the need to move things quickly. This I fear is the worst part of Noo-Brewership.

 

[ba70665]

I dont think you have to take the lid all the way off, and if you use sterilized equipment i dont think there is a very significant chance of infection. Personally, i believe all the hype about being super sterile is overblown. As long as you are smart about it and dont like stick your dirty hand into the beer you'll be fine.

 

[AirRageous]

That dripping snot thing could be a real concern for me. I know that I will have my nose in there sniffing the brew. Damn, I hate this "patience" part of brewing.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

That's what I thought of doing. What's probably the easiest to do is to get a 6 gallon carboy to primary in. The Ale Pail BLOWS for getting SG samples. At first it takes the strength of Herculus to get the thing off, and by the time you do it enough you'll find yourself thinking there has to be a better way.

You could do that. Or relax.

You don't HAVE to force the lid to make a seal. You don't actually HAVE to use the lid if the room you are fermenting in is clean and the air is relatively still. On new buckets anymore, I don't even drill for the airlock. I save that for the rare occasion I do a carboy secondary. And I simply lay the bucket lid over the top of the bucket.

I make sure to use the older drilled bucket for potentially explosive fermentations so I can rig a blowoff.

It all comes over time.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I dont think you have to take the lid all the way off, and if you use sterilized equipment i dont think there is a very significant chance of infection. Personally, i believe all the hype about being super sterile is overblown. As long as you are smart about it and dont like stick your dirty hand into the beer you'll be fine.

I don;t think there is ANY hype about being super "sterile". I can guarantee you that except for a few that may have steam capabilities, or an autoclave, that very few of us are employing sterile practices.

At best, we are "sanitary" by chemical means and if we are clean, that is more than sufficient.

 

[jds]

... At first it takes the strength of Herculus to get the thing off, and by the time you do it enough you'll find yourself thinking there has to be a better way...

I've seen people say this before. Have you notched the outer lip of the lid to your Ale Pail? If you cut a handful of slits in the outer lip, then the lid goes on and off a lot easier, but still seals to the pail just fine.

I'll try to remember to take some photos of mine tonight.

 

[Revvy]

My answer to the countless times we get this question is..."If it were bad for the beer, if it were RISKY for the beer, why would every book recommend it?

Seriously, there is SO much that books, and websites warn you not to do, that tell you is bad for your beer...But just about ALL are in agreement as to the importance of taking hydro-readings.

You can crack a bucket, draw a sample and seal the bucket back up in less than 30 seconds...and as long you sanitized whatever you are using to draw your sample then everything will be fine...

If you keep a spray bottle of sanitizer around you can even spray the bucket lid before and after you crack it, if you're so inclined....

You have to remember beer is MUCH hardier than most new brewers give it credit...just relax, it's not going to whither and die if you look at it cross eyed....

Many of us have stuck our arms into our ale pail, and still miraculously the beer has turned out ok....

 

[Pelikan]

Don't even bother with SG readings. Keep your beer in the primary (pail) for 4 weeks, then rack to your bottling bucket. If it hasn't finished fermenting and conditioning by then, it never will. Before adding priming sugar, take a small sample with a sterile instrument and taste (with your mouth). Does it taste reasonably acceptable? If so, proceed. The taste buds can detect parts per billion of stuff that shouldn't be there...far more accurate than the best NASA hydrometer, and there's no margin for error (unless you've grown up and still don't know how to use your tongue).

Taking SG readings every day, every other day, etc etc etc, is a flawed philosophy in my opinion. The best technique I ever learned with regard to science, gardening, brewing, etc, is called the neglect tech. Guess what it involves? Doing everything you need to do to ensure a great culture (ie: good recipe, good equipment, good techniques, and good sterilization), then leaving it completely alone until you need to do something. Chances are so, so, soooo much better you'll screw something up taking readings than actually doing something useful, especially when one considers the fact that the beer should remain in the primary for 3-4 weeks to properly condition anyway.

Once you progress to a more advanced level and want to take SG readings to perfect a recipe, then all the power to you. Even then, I'd only start taking readings if something is wrong. If your primary concern is ending up with a good brew, and you haven't hit a wall with one thing or other, then leave the hydrometer in its case.

With things like beer, people feel the need to do this and do that and do this to give them a feeling of control. But guess what? We're not growing yeast, yeast grows itself. We're just trying to provide the best environment possible for its growth. If you do that, then SG readings are a moot point. SG is only appropriate if you're running into a problem and trying to diagnose it, or if you're fond of the academic side of things and want to determine exactly how much attenuation you're getting, etc etc etc.

 

[944play]

I just pull out the airlock and stick a sanitized drinking straw into the beer and draw my sample off using a sanitized baster. I don't unsnap the lid until I am ready to rack.

 

[Revvy]

The best technique I ever learned with regard to science, gardening, brewing, etc, is called the neglect tech. Guess what it involves? Doing everything you need to do to ensure a great culture (ie: good recipe, good equipment, good techniques, and good sterilization), then leaving it completely alone until you need to do something.

+1 To this!!!!

I agree there is no need to take a lot of readings...BUT you need to take one if you think there is something wrong (especially if you plan on starting an "is my beer ruined" thread), you should take one if you plan to rack to a secondary or bottle and you don't plan on leaving it for a month in primary...and to figure out the ABV of a beer if you are interested...

But you shouldn't AVOID taking it because you think it will hurt your beer...or are afraid to...

 

[Pelikan]

+1 To this!!!!
But you shouldn't AVOID taking it because you think it will hurt your beer...or are afraid to...

Of course not...but again, a waste of time and a vector for contamination (however unlikely) in my opinion.

 

[ifishsum]

I wouldn't take daily consecutive SG measurements unless it was higher than expected and I was in a hurry to be absolutely sure it was finished. I leave my brew in primary for 10-14 days and then check the gravity before racking to secondary - If it's at or very near the expected FG I go ahead and rack it then. If it weren't, I'd just leave it in primary another week and check it again. So far in 9-10 batches they've all been there.

As long as you're careful about sanitization and procedure, there's very little risk of infection - but there's also no need to open it up and check the gravity multiple times unless something doesn't seem right.

 

[jklotz]

What has been said already makes sense to me. I will add, however, that everything I've read and experienced makes me believe that the less you mess with your beer, the better it will be. Taking a SG reading is good, but there is no need to screw with it 2 days after you brew. I don't bother with it until it has been in the primary for at least 10 days, sometimes 14. And that is only if I plan to secondary. Otherwise, I won't crack the lid until at least 3 weeks, and even then, I'll check the attenuation by comparing the OG to the sample. If it is close to what the yeast used is supposed to attenuate to, then I'll check it again in 2 days. If not, I'll come back in a week. In other words, I try to minimize sample taking using information available to me to avoid disturbing it too much.

 

[GroovePuppy]

Even with a measly 4.6 gallons in my primary bucket my Walmart turkey baster reached the wort through the airlock hole.

 

[goplayoutside]

I also ferment in an ale pale -- I pop the lid loose and then slide it maybe 1/3 of the way off to let me collect the sample and then replace it. As others have mentioned, the risk of contamination is quite low so long as you sanitize your equipment and are quick and clean about the sampling. There is alcohol in the beer by now which defends it some from the badguy germs. It's like castle walls for yeast!

I take three readings on every brew. First is OG. Second one I take a week or so after the crazy primary fermentation stops. Third one I take a few days after that. It's the minimum number of samples required to ensure that your fermentation is done and tell you your ABV.

I once caught a stuck fermentation this way so I like to take the samples. I also agree that excessive sampling is asking to screw something up. I think my technique as a comprimise -- I use exactly the minimum amount of sampling to get me the necessary info, and I do my best to keep it clean. No problems so far and I sleep better knowing there are not sticky-mess grenades in my basement.

 

[dontman]

As far as I'm concerned the situation is kind of simple. Check OG, pitch yeast, wait appropriate amount of time until next step, three weeks minimum for primary regardless of bubbling activity. LITFA until then. Then take a reading. In 216 batches it has always been within a few points of where I expected. I have never ever had to take multiple readings on consecutive days.

I go by two rules: 1. Whenever I am in doubt I LITFA and wait a week or two or six and 2. See rule 1

 

[mev]

I have a spigot on my bucket, it takes all the worry out of it, unless I am missing something. The only drawback is that when you open the valve, it wants to pull water from the airlock into the beer. If you loosen the airlock a little, it should be fine. I take a sample right into my hydro flask.

 

[yeoldebrewer]

A worry wort question about taking samples via a spigot: Will that draw dirty air into the Fermenter? And will beer in the valve works give the bugs another route in?

 

[Pelikan]

A worry wort question about taking samples via a spigot: Will that draw dirty air into the Fermenter? And will beer in the valve works give the bugs another route in?

Take a look at my post a page or so back. Don't worry about taking SG samples. Do what you have to do to ensure a good culture (ie: sound recipe, equipment, techniques, and sterilization) then leave that puppy alone for a month. If it hasn't fermented out by then, it never will. Take a sterile sample and test with your taste buds. If it comes anywhere close to passing muster, proceed to bottling.

 

[truckerzero]

here is a great solution i do and has worked well for me
pitch your yeast put lid on and aerate by shaking bucket
when you take the lid back off to do your first sg reading(yeast now well mixed)
buy one of those tubes to measure your sg in
fill with your wort put your hydromiter in
and leave in a place the same tempeture as your ferminter
and just a glance will tell you nwhat is going on in your forminter
with out geting in to it
i think they call this a sattalite fermenter works great for me
ps this will probably not be good for drinking since it is exposed to the air

 

[truckerzero]

 

[truckerzero]

http://http://www.wineandcake.com/browse.cfm/4,309.html
all the pictures and links im trying to put up are not seeming to want to work correctly not sure why
any way look up hydromiter test jar and you will see what im talking about

 

[truckerzero]

ps i know im a bad speller and i leave it in there to annoy the perfectionists

 

[Bob]

Way to troll, Zero. You've proved you're lazy and deliberately misleading. If you're too lazy to correct your spelling, why on earth do you think anyone should believe what you say about brewing? Hurrah for you.

Anyway, OP, the answer to your question is don't seal the damn bucket.

You can't get a good-enough seal anyway, so why bother? For more than a decade, I've been brewing using these 'open fermenters'. After batch five or six, I got so sick of prying off the lids that I replaced them with clear Plexiglas sheets which I just lay over the mouth of the bucket. I can see in, nothing can fall into the beer, carbon dioxide gas can escape. Done.

You can do the same thing - just put a piece of sanitized Scotch tape over the airlock hole and rest the (sanitized) lid loosely on the bucket. Done.

As others have noted, CO2 devolution will maintain positive pressure for long enough that all possible contaminants will have been forced out, and a blanket of CO2 will remain on the surface of the beer long after the krauesen has fallen.

So don't snap those lids down, man! Save the airlock for a carboy.

Cheers!

Bob

 

[jklotz]

Way to troll, Zero. You've proved you're lazy and deliberately misleading. If you're too lazy to correct your spelling, why on earth do you think anyone should believe what you say about brewing? Hurrah for you.

Play nice, Bob

 

[Bob]

Sorry. I just get all bent round when someone flagrantly trolls like that.

I shouldn't rise to the bait, should I?

[sigh]

 

[flyangler18]

Sorry. I just get all bent round when someone flagrantly trolls like that.

I shouldn't rise to the bait, should I?]

No, no, no- it's always entertaining to watch your verbal gymnastics.

 

[ChshreCat]

I've settled on my routine. I don't touch the pail for 2 weeks. Then I have everything ready to rack to secondary and crack it open. I take a hydrometer sample as so long as it's at or near my FG, I rack to secondary and give it two weeks there.

If you're going to secondary, it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be at a stable SG for three days, so long as it's not stuck really high. And even then, racking can rouse the yeast and help it finish off.

No real reason to be taking multiple samples from your primary if you're using a secondary.

 

[nosmatt]

Seems like a pain to rack to a secondary, plus more equipment for ME to store, with little space to do so.

what i am practicing, once everything is in the fermentor, including the yeast, take my OG reading,then pour that sample in an empty bottle, and it sits with my fermentor. i can check progress if i wanted to at any time.
i left the first batch in the primary for 15 days and bottled, it was a very low gravity beer.

second batch is 3 weeks in, and gets bottled this weekend, and was @ .014 after 4 days. third batch is ~ .020 right now after 4 days, but was much bigger.


seems to me, 3 weeks in primary, move to bottle, and brew another batch.

shhhh, i seal my lids. i only take em off once, so i dont mind.

 

[ChshreCat]

The problem I see with the "satellite fermenter" trick is that it's not always going to be the same. Different volumes will ferment differently. Plus, you can make a 10 gallon batch, split it into identical 5 gallon primaries and they aren't always going to act the same.

 

[nosmatt]

good point.i will check @ the bottle too just to see how they compare

 

[mev]

Am I the only one that takes a sample from the spigot on the side of the bucket? What would be the drawback from this?

 

[ChshreCat]

Most folks just don't primary in their bottling bucket.

 

[mev]

Gotcha. I guess I have two 'bottling buckets' then. I put a spigot on the primary pail for the sole purpose of taking samples without disturbing it. I do use a better bottle as a secondary though.