No bubbles 18 hours in... how long do I wait before adding another yeast?

[BIGRUGBY]

Brewed a milk stout yesterday, og of 1.085 (had a pound of lactose in it). Still no bubbles 18 hours into fermentation. My question is, how long do I wait before adding a fresh packet of S05?
I used a ~2 month old mason jar of S04 yeast cake from a previous batch. It had about a measuring cup volume of yeasty colored stuff in it. Wondering if that was dead, but I did add a pound of brown sugar at the end of the boil so I figured it would have taken right off.
I did lose patience while chilling my wort and transferred at 100 degrees and added the yeast. Not ideal, but at least it wasn't over 110 degrees.
Most things that I have read say to be patient at only 24 hours in. I'm currently at work so I won't be able to check it again until 30 hours in. If not bubbling then, should I pitch a packet of S05?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mtrhdltd]

1.085 is fairly high so a little harsh for yeast. 100 degrees is pretty hot and harsh as well. Did you oxygenate or use yeast nutrients? Pitch rate seems ok if they are still viable. What temp is it now?
I wait 72 hours before repitching myself. One packet may be an under pitch.

 

[VikeMan]

Brewed a milk stout yesterday, og of 1.085 (had a pound of lactose in it). Still no bubbles 18 hours into fermentation.

I'd say it's too soon to worry. Also, lack of airlock bubbles doesn't necessarily mean anything, depending on how airtight your fermenter is/isn't.

 

[BIGRUGBY]

Yeast nutrients- no
Oxygenate- kind of... I opened the valve on my kettle and let gravity take over, splashing down about 4 feet into the bottom of my fermenter.

Airtight- I think so. Its a stainless conical with a circular clamp on the lid.

 

[Mtrhdltd]

You will not see action for a while. Without oxygen and nutrients they will be slow starting for sure. Also it could be working and you can't see it.
Relax and wait longer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Lallemand has a "Brewers Corner" with a number of PDF downloads. Repitching using dry yeast (Lallemand) may be an interesting read. There's also a PDF on propagating lager yeast for those who try to reduce yeast costs.

Aside: S-04 is from Fermentis and the repitching instructions are from Lallemand - so the Lallemand article may be just a good starting point (not a "best practice" for S-04). And maybe the forum has better knowledge that they are willing to share. Or better yet, make into a "sticky".

 

[Maxkling]

I’m guessing you took the cold mason jar of yeast and dumped it in 100 degree wort? I’m sure you’ll see activity eventually and it probably won’t be the happiest or most healthy fermentation. I wouldn’t have done that, remember you go through a lot of work to brew, don’t waste all the time and effort on the very last step.

I usually can only chill to 80-90. From there I just put it in the fermentation chamber until it reaches proper temperature. It may only take a few hours to drop.

 

[WesBrew]

I'd be more concerned about the 100 degrees killing yeast & fusels than anything else. Hopefully it got cooled down fast. I've used some 3+month old wlp005 I harvested and it went well but was slow to kick off. close to 24 hours before I saw activity.

 

[BIGRUGBY]

So pitching at 100 degrees probably didn't kill my yeast, but if it might produce off flavors/fusels, should I just pitch an S05 packet and take the clean yeast flavor to take some risk off the table?

 

[VikeMan]

So pitching at 100 degrees probably didn't kill my yeast, but if it might produce off flavors/fusels, should I just pitch an S05 packet and take the clean yeast flavor to take some risk off the table?

If you are going to have problems with fusels, I think the damage has been done, i.e. I don't think that pitching more yeast can help that. There's even an argument to be made that it could make the problem worse.

 

[BIGRUGBY]

Just got home from work and no bubbles.

 

[WesBrew]

if everything is tight, no activity, and the temp is right you could pitch again maybe the temp killed the yeast. if no activity I don't think fusels will be produced. might be a good thing.

 

[day_trippr]

In spite of everything, a cup of S04 cake should definitely take off in the fullness of time.
If the OP is using a bucket fermenter, odds are the lid leaks too much to work an airlock...

Cheers!

 

[Maxkling]

In spite of everything, a cup of S04 cake should definitely take off in the fullness of time.
If the OP is using a bucket fermenter, odds are the lid leaks too much to work an airlock...

Cheers!

Or it was “around 100 degrees” and the heat and shock killed it. I’m with you, this thing should be rolling.

Maybe pop the lid and take a look, hopefully you have a fresh pack you can pitch. If not Amazon 2 days can get you some.

 

[Maxkling]

Or it was “around 100 degrees” and the heat and shock killed it. I’m with you, this thing should be rolling.

Maybe pop the lid and take a look, hopefully you have a fresh pack you can pitch. If not Amazon 2 days can get you some.

Well just noticed the Rugby in your username, might be out of the Amazon 2 day window .

 

[BIGRUGBY]

Not sure I get the "out of the 2 day window reference", but you had me entrigued at "rugby"!
I caved. I aerated with a wisk and pitched a packet of S05. Cheap insurance! The wort had some foam on top as if there were a couple of active cells, but not enough to ferment. I'm going with tenperature shock on this one.

 

[hophands]

Also depends on how much headspace you have- may od been addressed but I have a bad habit of skimming.

 

[NGD]

@BIGRUGBY I’m guessing temp shock as. Maybe I missed it but did you pitch straight from fridge to wort or let it warm to room temp prior to pitch?

Also have you checked gravity to make sure it hasn't budged?

 

[day_trippr]

I'm skeptical that 100°F would croak S04. That's only 14°F above Fermentis' recommended hydration temperature range for S04.
I should do an experiment some day...

Cheers!

 

[BIGRUGBY]

I took the mason jar out of the fridge at the start of my brew day, probably 6 hours before pitching, decanted the old separated out beer, and let it warm up.
I did not check gravity before pitching the packet of S05- I was too busy not worrying and relaxing while having a home brew

 

[BIGRUGBY]

It is also now bubbling. Not bubbling like crazy which makes me think the S05 is kicking in. I don't think aerating it would have got the S04 going, right?

 

[NGD]

@day_trippr I was thinking a sudden 60 degree may be possible to kill the yeast. Assuming it was at least 75 when pitched..not so much.

I did not check gravity before pitching the packet of S05- I was too busy not worrying and relaxing while having a home brew

Thats solid reasoning that I occasionally follow myself.

 

[WesBrew]

It is also now bubbling. Not bubbling like crazy which makes me think the S05 is kicking in. I don't think aerating it would have got the S04 going, right?

I'd think s04 would have erupted almost immediately. prob just not healthy from the start. sounds like so5 is kicking in and all is well.

 

[thefigure5]

The wort had some foam on top

My guess is the S04 was working, just a slow start.

 

[VikeMan]

My guess is the S04 was working, just a slow start.

I would guess that ~95% of the "failed" fermentations saved by pitching additional yeast are a misinterpretation of what actually happened.

 

[Nubiwan]

Yeast will find a way..... i reckon you just have to wait. I bet the original yeast just kicked in....

 

[DuncB]

Mixed ferment I reckon now, lot of shock for some old yeast, starved and then dumped in a high osmotic poor nutrient, oxygen starved hot bath.

 

[BrewZer]

Any follow-up from the OP @BIGRUGBY ? How did the beer turn out, or did you have to turn out the beer?

 

[Soulshine2]

Brewed a milk stout yesterday, og of 1.085 (had a pound of lactose in it). Still no bubbles 18 hours into fermentation. My question is, how long do I wait before adding a fresh packet of S05?
I used a ~2 month old mason jar of S04 yeast cake from a previous batch. It had about a measuring cup volume of yeasty colored stuff in it. Wondering if that was dead, but I did add a pound of brown sugar at the end of the boil so I figured it would have taken right off.
I did lose patience while chilling my wort and transferred at 100 degrees and added the yeast. Not ideal, but at least it wasn't over 110 degrees.
Most things that I have read say to be patient at only 24 hours in. I'm currently at work so I won't be able to check it again until 30 hours in. If not bubbling then, should I pitch a packet of S05?

Thanks in advance!

i almost never pitch over 80 degrees. 100 is a little hot.