New Replacement for March Pump

SSBrew - 728
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I used my SS chugger for most of the day yesterday brewing up 20 gallons of tasty brew. The pump worked like a charm. soon i will buy another one when my stand gets a little closer to operational. for anyone who is still tossing around buying one of these i would say BUY IT!
 
I need a SS head to replace my plastic head. What do they cost, I can't find one on ebay right now?

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So it turns out mike shipped mine right away, I just got the tracking number and it's already in town. Seriously impressed with not only giving me a free product, but the speed in which he shipped to Alaska. Many kudos to Tri-State Pumps.

Thanks again mike, I'll post up my review soon.
 
JonW said:
Make sure you rotate the head 180 degrees on the right pump.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I do plan on taking it apart and rotating the pump head, as well as painting the pump cover. I don't have them mounted yet as you can see in the pic, I just tossed them up there to show what they looked like as soon as I ripped open the box :)
 
JonW said:
Make sure you rotate the head 180 degrees on the right pump.
Click to expand...

Actually the pumps work best IMO with the outlets horizontal, the outlet facing right, the inlet facing left. This actually places the outlet opening of the impeller housing straight up allowing the air to be full purged from the pump.
 
lamarguy said:
And, avoid mounting the motor on its side (sleeve-bearing oil ports should face up). Makes oiling the motor less difficult.
Click to expand...

ohhh good point, I wouldn't have thought of that until AFTER i was cussing trying to oil them, I may have to rethink my mount.....
 
Cpt_Kirks said:
Those will work with the Chugger, right?

Freakin' ebay search sucks, I could not find that, even this morning!

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The head is made by chugger pumps as a replacement for their actual pump. It has a description with the March 809 pump listed most likely to indicate that you can use it on a March pump as well.
 
My pump just arrived this morning, I got that Christmas morning feeling inside.
Thanks Mike for this great SS pump offer plus what's posted on ebay. I just need to power up this puppy and play. Again many thanks.
 
Scut_Monkey said:
The head is made by chugger pumps as a replacement for their actual pump. It has a description with the March 809 pump listed most likely to indicate that you can use it on a March pump as well.
Click to expand...

I replaced one of my March 809's heads with the stainless chugger head, and it works like a charm. And you don't have to look at that hideous green housing that way ;)
 
Just wanted to show what you can do with Mike's Chugger heads if you want. Mike sent me one of the SS pumps when I emailed him a couple of weeks ago and suggested that maybe he try to put triclover ends on them. He sent it to me for free and said try away. great guy. Ended up buying 2 more from him and have one more to convert.

I am not a skilled TIG welder, so I can't claim the workmanship. A local guy I have used who i think did a great job.

IMG00495-20101117-1013.jpg


IMG00490-20101117-1007.jpg


IMG00492-20101117-1008.jpg
 
Wow, I just posted about wanting to do exactly that. uncanny.

klyph said:
I'm thinking about getting 1/2" female NPT to triclamp adapters
And thread them onto the chugger pump head
Then have the adaptor sanitary welded at the face.

I'm not sure if this would give you a sanitary pump or not considering the internals, but it would eliminate contamination from threads.
Click to expand...

Though it looks like you used weld ferrules instead of the threaded adapters?
 
Got my chugged this week also! Thanks to Mike for the pump head upgrade! :mug: I won't get to try mine for a while as it was confiscated by my mother in law as a christmas gift. :eek: I have my toolbox made and wired just need to put the pump in it. Good thing I have plenty of beer made cause I won't be able to brew till after christmas. :drunk:

Thanks again Mike! :mug:
 
klyph,

I figured I wasn't the only one wanting to give tri clover a try.

Your right that I used ferrules on the head to the right. I used end caps on the one to the left. Both turned out fine, but the ferrules version was easier to do. I also bored out the inlet side a little over 1/2".

The ferrules made it easier to keep the ends square to the pump and parallel to each other.

I thought about using the female NPT tri clover ends, but there was too much threads exposed after it was screwed on to be able to cover them with a smooth TIG weld on the inside. Maybe if they had a deeper cut threads, that would eliminate that problem.
 
Windsors said:
I thought about using the female NPT tri clover ends, but there was too much threads exposed after it was screwed on to be able to cover them with a smooth TIG weld on the inside. Maybe if they had a deeper cut threads, that would eliminate that problem.
Click to expand...

Good to know, thanks!
 
BB - good idea....I will try that on one more that I need to convert to Tri clover. not sure what will be the limiting thread size, but its worth a try.
 
I also bored out the inlet side a little over 1/2".
Click to expand...

I'm limited at the time to move and inspect my pump more than looking at it. On my Chugger the inlet is .456" ID or 83% of cross sectional area of .500" ID tubing. On the discharge .424" ID or 71.9% of .500" ID tubing.
On the inlet should anyone open it up to .500" or more there is a relief cut for the pump mounting screw that will make the wall thickness an issue to consider before drilling it out, breaking thru the wall would be a pisser or leaker. Later if able i'll take a lookie inside.
I did notice a strong machining oil smell left on the casting as well inside the pump, this would need to be taken apart and washed before placed into service.
 
On the pump the MPT inlet especially if your using a coupling the fluid flow will go from .875" to .455" at the flat end of the pump inlet, this will create a large turbulence point. My suggestion is to countersink the inlet ID until the outside of the CS is just touching the last of the faced off inlet surface for a smoother fluid transition. Every turn, bend and fitting adds turbulence to the flow not counting tubing friction, it all adds up to reduced pump performance output.
I just got inside my pump, the side inlet port from the housing to impeller is "D" shaped, width of .890", the impeller cast center post .490" diameter.
The pisser my pump has stainless flashing at the end of this center post like a mushroom a diameter of .620". This alone is a grain and crap snag location besides causing turbulence as well restricting impeller inlet flow.
Looking into the inlet port there is a ramp with a step that also that can be smoothed down for a smoother fluid transition, possible reduction of pump harder to get primed is my thinking on the above mentioned. The side of the impeller to inlet port is a rather wide gap causing fluid to bleed past vs caught in the impeller and centrifuged out to the discharge port. Again my thinking here to up the pump's efficiency from the standard production design, it all adds up and can only help.
Adding to this there is quite a lot of impeller end play which increases bleeding across the input port vs shearing and pumping out, my pump this gap is .140" wide when the impeller is against the stainless cover plate.
I also found I was able to slide the motor magnet out an additional .094" just clearing the stainless cover, this allows the impeller magnet to just float touching the inner side of this stainless end cover reducing the pulling of the two magnets when they are not inline magnetically. I see this as less end thrust pulling wear plus deeper engagement of the drive to driven magnet in strength for a stronger impeller pulling before the magnetic coupling drive starts to slip.
I have a wild idea, narrow down both sides of the housing for less fluid bleeding down off the sides of the impeller blades making the pump more like a positive displacement in function plus chamfering and blending the inlet and outlet ports. Later on i'll first do NIB flow numbers then redo testing after reworking the pump to see if any actual number differences. I must move around back's killing me just typing this.....=o&o>........
 
I'm planning a build and have a few questions about these pumps and fluidics systems.

Are Chugger and March pumps subject fluid drift when not powered?
In other words: Does the pump act as a valve? Will a positive pressure on the inlet cause fluid to move through the pump when not running?
Inversely, does the pump act as a check? Will a positive pressure on the outlet cause fluid to move backward through the pump when not running?

Topic morph: Has anyone used check valves in their fluidics routing systems? Ball checks often have a cracking pressure that must be exceeded before flow begins in the operating direction. Does this limit your minimum flow in practice? I don't believe it should because you can maintain flow volume with higher pressure by decreasing exit orifice, thus increasing velocity. Should this be a concern? Flap or gate checks likely have lower cracking pressures, anyone use these or have any insight they can share?

Tim
 
Can't speak for Chugger but with March, fluid will freely flow through. You'll need a valve to stop flow when pump is not in use.
 
With the ability to swap out a March to Chugger pump head plus both being centrifugal by design no way as they will backflow they are not positive displacement pumps. Your dealing with a shutoff of 3.31 PSI on ther Chugger pump, spring loaded check valve will reduce the output PSI besides leak if any particles get under the seat.
 
Having just looked closely at photos of the innards of these pumps I see that there is a clear path both ways through the housing. The impeller doesn’t per say force the fluid motion, it just encourages it with a strong swirl.

Knowing this I will have to make sure all vessel to vessel transfer outlet and inlet pairs are at the same height. xxxxxxxxxxx Nope, that won't work. Head pressure will be present whenever one vessel has more fluid than the other. A solution could be outlets always above the high-water line. Then I fear hot side aeration. I guess I really do need more valves, and have the presence of mind to turn them off when not using their accompanying pumps.

Places where there are T's in the fluidics diagram there will always also have to be check valves to prevent back flows. Can anyone point me to examples of check valves in documented builds here on HBT?

I am designing 3 pumps into my fluidics, each with a 3 way valve on the output. Any other builds like this anyone can point me to?

Tim
 
tt314 said:
I am designing 3 pumps into my fluidics, each with a 3 way valve on the output. Any other builds like this anyone can point me to?

Tim
Click to expand...

"The impeller doesn’t per say force the fluid motion, it just encourages it with a strong swirl."


That's why they are called centrifugal pumps. The impeller "slings" the liquid outward (and out the outlet) from the center by spinning it. This creates negative pressure at the center drawing in more liquid to replace that which exits.

"Nope, that won't work. Head pressure will be present whenever one vessel has more fluid than the other. "

That's correct. Static head (pressure) is a function of the depth of the liquid independent of the relative position of the inlets/outlets.

"A solution could be outlets always above the high-water line. Then I fear hot side aeration. "

IMO, the threat of HSA is over-rated, but you are right in that needless splashing should be avoided as much as possible.

"Knowing this I will have to make sure all vessel to vessel transfer outlet and inlet pairs are at the same height. xxxxxxxxxxx I guess I really do need more valves, and have the presence of mind to turn them off when not using their accompanying pumps."

No, you're getting off the beam here. This goes back to the thing about the fluid depth, not the relative position of the inlets/outlets. Yes, presence of mind is nearly always a good thing to have. Much the same as valves in this instance.

"Places where there are T's in the fluidics diagram there will always also have to be check valves to prevent back flows. Can anyone point me to examples of check valves in documented builds here on HBT?"

Stolen from Wikipedia. "Fluidics or Fluidic logic is the use of a fluid or compressible medium to perform analog or digital operations similar to those performed with electronics." Is this what you are trying to do? Sounds like brewing the hard way to me.

I've not seen check valves used in documented or undocumented builds here on HBT, but someone has probably done it. The problem I see with check valves is their susceptibility to getting clogged with particulates and they would likely inhibit the flow rate to some degree. Seems like it would be unnecessarily adding complexity to a system with little to gain. Don't get me wrong. I like gadgets as much as the next guy, but sometimes the KISS approach is the better way to go.

Post some pics of whatever you build and let us know how it performs.
 
tt314 said:
I am designing 3 pumps into my fluidics, each with a 3 way valve on the output. Any other builds like this anyone can point me to?

Tim
Click to expand...

Here's a link to my build with 3 pumps.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/single-tier-3-pump-bcs-462-automated-rig-204705/

I use 2, 2-way valves on each pump instead of a 3 way valve.

If you put your return higher than the output, you'll have no issues with fluid flowing back through the pump. On the inside of the kettle, use a hose to put your return below the liquid level (for no aeration).
 
JonW said:
On the inside of the kettle, use a hose to put your return below the liquid level (for no aeration).
Click to expand...

Pretty sure if you put a dropper tube under the liquid level you will still get a syphon back through the pump due to different heads.
 
Theses pumps were looking almost too good to be true, especially considering the seemingly great customer service but at this point Im really not impressed. Communication or attitude wise, Oh well back on the market for a little giant.
 
GC89 said:
Theses pumps were looking almost too good to be true, especially considering the seemingly great customer service but at this point Im really not impressed. Communication or attitude wise, Oh well back on the market for a little giant.
Click to expand...

Mike was awesome to deal with IMO. Who were you dealing with?
 

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