Moving to secondary - by CAR

[safcraft]

Hey all, need advice:

I just purchased a new chest freezer to lager my beers.
The idea here is to send the Lagers to the chest freezer for a few months, after primary fermentation is done.
Problem : the chest freezer is at my 2nd house (no space on this one) with 30min car travel distance.

So i have the options:

1. Move the beer still in the primary carboy with the yeast. Get to destination and let it rest in primary a few days, already in the chest freezer to settle the yeast again (after shaking and rambling through the 30min ride), and then move the secondary vessel and lager a few months.

2. Move the beer to secondary before move and transport the beer. Get to destination and put in freezer to lager a few months.

3. Ideas anyone ??

My goal to transfer the beer to a secondary carboy is to free my primary fermenter. I will produce many lagers during the 4-5 month lagering period.

I do not have Kegs.
I AM worried about oxidation.
I CAN NOT move the freezer to my house.
I CAN NOT lager at my house, no space.

Question : Can the 4 month lagering be done in bottle ? I could bottle before moving (will add sugar priming) and then lager in botle in chest freezer. Is this "right" ?

 

[CUrchin]

Tough one there- I'm not sure I believe enough in the "CO2 blanket" to say transport in primary and I think you will oxidize it in in the move if it is in the primary or secondary. Time permitting, I think I would do a D rest if you haven't already, chill for a day, bottle, wait a few days to get some CO2 going and then move. LMy opinion, your results may vary. No a great solution on this one (unless you can borrow a keg).

 

[IchLiebeBier]

Could you move it immediately after putting it in the primary? Let it ferment in the freezer (at fermentation temp), then transfer it to secondary on site.

There shouldn't be an oxidation problem if you move it like that.

 

[Trox]

Could you just do all your brewing at your second house, and only keep your finished product at your first house?

 

[evchenko]

Second house eh, check you out!

 

[safcraft]

Could you move it immediately after putting it in the primary? Let it ferment in the freezer (at fermentation temp), then transfer it to secondary on site.

There shouldn't be an oxidation problem if you move it like that.

My chest freezer will be always running at 35F.
The plan is keep adding lager vessels to the chest freezer.
Are you recommending to ferment at 35F all lagers? If so...i wouldnt be able to raise temp to do the diacetyl rest....will have to always keep at 35F.

No can do on the "all process in 2nd house". Must brew at main house, i only plan to drive to 2nd house on weekends, and have no way to monitor the brew from distance...

 

[safcraft]

Tough one there- I'm not sure I believe enough in the "CO2 blanket" to say transport in primary and I think you will oxidize it in in the move if it is in the primary or secondary. Time permitting, I think I would do a D rest if you haven't already, chill for a day, bottle, wait a few days to get some CO2 going and then move. LMy opinion, your results may vary. No a great solution on this one (unless you can borrow a keg).

What is it with the "keg" solution that keeps the beer safe?
To Keg , then transfer to freezer is a good option ?
I can always invest in a few kegs...they only cost around 8$ a piece...

After laggering i could bottle from KEG... good enough?

 

[Iseneye]

When you put the beer in a keg you can purge head space reducing the amount of O2. This reduces the risk of oxidation during transport.

If you get a supply of CO2 you could transfer to carboy at house 1 then purge and transport.

 

[blizz81]

I don't see anything wrong with conditioning in the bottle, outside of the added tedium of having to schlep bottles around. I would say if you try this, give the bottles enough time to carb first, then condition them.


With the constraints above / no keg, I'd say the next best move might be racking to secondary such that there is very little headspace, and transport that way.


Not sure why anything needs to be lagered for 4 months but to each their own.

 

[IchLiebeBier]

Are you recommending to ferment at 35F all lagers?

Nope. Didn't understand you'd always have it on. Sorry.

 

[CUrchin]

My comment wasn't meant to be snarky. Keg=CO2=No source for oxidation. It's a good solution. Carting around beer that isn't on CO2 is a recipe for oxidation, plain and smiple. Carb'ed bottles would be your next best bet, IMO. Secondary purged with CO2/low head space *might* work, but lagers are a lot of effort and if it was me I'd hate to find out I oxidized one after all that work. Another solution - could you live with brewing ales for a while?

 

[safcraft]

I read a litle more about kegs. I did not know anything as i am a botler only.
It seems the mini keg 5l is pratical enough to fill with beer up to the top and put the rubber bung on it. This should pratically eliminate air gap and minimize oxygen inside the keg , so i can easily transport it.
After lagering, i would remove rubber bung and fill botles.
It would not condition in keg as i would not add sugar.
What are your thoughts on this approach? Worse than bottle lagering?

 

[CUrchin]

I think I'd bottle lager over an un pressurized mini-keg. The idea behind the keg is to have the beer under CO2, essentially eliminating the risk of oxidation. Carbonated bottles will achieve that. An un-primed mini-keg will not.

There may be other options here- You could boil, chill, put the beer in the primary, aerate, go to second home and pitch. The trip would be extra aeration. You wouldn't be able to monitor or time your D rest very well in this scenario.

You could try moving a very small head space secondary. I think there is more risk with this as there is no way to completely eliminate the oxygen.

You could try moving during active fermentation. Again, monitoring and D rest timing are a concern-

How are you controlling temps at home 1? Could you do a short lager at home 1, bottle and then move?

Do you really need that long of a lager time? Seems like a lot.

Hope it works out. Cheers.

 

[Yooper]

I think the only real option here is to bottle, let the bottles carb up at room temperature, then haul the bottles to the freezer to lager in the bottle.

I don't think using a mini-keg is a viable alternative.

 

[safcraft]

I think I'd bottle lager over an un pressurized mini-keg. The idea behind the keg is to have the beer under CO2, essentially eliminating the risk of oxidation. Carbonated bottles will achieve that. An un-primed mini-keg will not.

There may be other options here- You could boil, chill, put the beer in the primary, aerate, go to second home and pitch. The trip would be extra aeration. You wouldn't be able to monitor or time your D rest very well in this scenario.

You could try moving a very small head space secondary. I think there is more risk with this as there is no way to completely eliminate the oxygen.

You could try moving during active fermentation. Again, monitoring and D rest timing are a concern-

How are you controlling temps at home 1? Could you do a short lager at home 1, bottle and then move?

Do you really need that long of a lager time? Seems like a lot.

Hope it works out. Cheers.

In home 1 i have a wine cooler, used as fermentation chamber. Minimum temperature is 8 degrees celsius. This is more or less the temperature i plan to ferment lagers.

I do not have experience enough with lagers to have justification to lager 4 months time. Nevertheless i plan to do what others claim to do. An oktoberfest for example is kept lagering for 6 months till october.
My goal is not crystal clear beer, but tasty beer. I was under the impression lagers should wait a few months to taste better...

 

[safcraft]

I think I'd bottle lager over an un pressurized mini-keg. The idea behind the keg is to have the beer under CO2, essentially eliminating the risk of oxidation. Carbonated bottles will achieve that. An un-primed mini-keg will not.

There may be other options here- You could boil, chill, put the beer in the primary, aerate, go to second home and pitch. The trip would be extra aeration. You wouldn't be able to monitor or time your D rest very well in this scenario.

You could try moving a very small head space secondary. I think there is more risk with this as there is no way to completely eliminate the oxygen.

You could try moving during active fermentation. Again, monitoring and D rest timing are a concern-

How are you controlling temps at home 1? Could you do a short lager at home 1, bottle and then move?

Do you really need that long of a lager time? Seems like a lot.

Hope it works out. Cheers.

In home 1 i have a wine cooler, used as fermentation chamber. Minimum temperature is 8 degrees celsius. This is more or less the temperature i plan to ferment lagers.

I do not have experience enough with lagers to have justification to lager 4 months time. Nevertheless i plan to do what others claim to do. An oktoberfest for example is kept lagering for 6 months till october.
My goal is not crystal clear beer, but tasty beer. I was under the impression lagers should wait a few months to taste better...

Thoughts??

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

+1 for keg idea

 

[blizz81]

In home 1 i have a wine cooler, used as fermentation chamber. Minimum temperature is 8 degrees celsius. This is more or less the temperature i plan to ferment lagers.

I do not have experience enough with lagers to have justification to lager 4 months time. Nevertheless i plan to do what others claim to do. An oktoberfest for example is kept lagering for 6 months till october.
My goal is not crystal clear beer, but tasty beer. I was under the impression lagers should wait a few months to taste better...

Thoughts??

The "traditional" lagering schedule of an Oktoberfest had more to do with weather and a lack of electric, temperature-controlled freezers at that time in human history than it did a specific duration for maximum lagering effect. I've lagered some higher-gravity beers for 8-10 weeks and I almost get laughed off when I mention it on here or to other brewers. (Here's an example of prevailing modern thought on lagering - http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/ ).


If you do end up conditioning in bottles, you can simply try one at X weeks along the way and see how it's working out.

 

[GHBWNY]

Could you move it immediately after putting it in the primary? Let it ferment in the freezer (at fermentation temp), then transfer it to secondary on site.

There shouldn't be an oxidation problem if you move it like that.

Agree it's important to get all the jostling around it's going to have done as early in the process as possible and then treat it like any other beer-in-process.

Next best option might be to transfer beer to secondary at 1st house with as close to zero headspace as possible in order to transport to 2nd house. The less room it has in the 2nd vessel to slosh around, the less oxidation should be an issue.

Here's what brewers need for transporting large vessels of beer: did you ever see the drink holders on a boat? They cantilever in all directions in direct resistance to the tilt of the boat so that your drink always stays level and does not slosh over the side of the cup (unless the cup is too full). Imagine a cradle of sorts you could slip your carboy/keg/etc. into that would cantilever during transport and reduce the chance of sloshing.