I’m currently brewing an all grain trippel and quad. The OG for the triple was 1.077 but after a month in the primary I transferred to secondary at 1.034. the OG for the quad was 1.092 and I transferred to secondary at 1.048. I expected the SG at transfer for both to be closer to 1.02. I planned on 3 months in the secondary- how much can I expect them to continue to ferment? Do I need to do anything to increase fermentation rate? Not sure if my expectations were off or something I did wrong. these are my first Belgium beers and the highest OG beers I’ve brewed. I used a wyeast strong ale yeast on the trippel and two packs of SafAle-256 for the quad. Thanks for any help!
How much fermentation occurs once transferred to secondary?
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What instrument did you use to measure the fermented beer's gravity (1.034 and 1.048, resp.)?
How big are those batches (volume)?
How big are those batches (volume)?
I used a refractometer and they are 5 gallon batches.
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Are you using software to adjust your refractometer reading or are you taking that reading at face value?? Once alcohol is present, a refractometer is no longer accurate. It requires a formula to adjust it to account for the alcohol - software such as beersmith can do this for you or you can simply google it.
That's what I was expecting.
There are free, online calcs to correct your refractometer reading, once alcohol is present:
http://seanterrill.com/2012/01/06/refractometer-calculator/https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/
Oh thanks I didn’t realize. I appreciate it!
thanks I didn’t realize that. I appreciate it!
A beginner doing an OG of 1.092! You are amazing, dude. I can't find the high five emoji.
Brewing software is really neat. Organizes your records for you, and since Beersmith has tools for things like hydrometer and refractometer compensation, the others must have it, too.
What's a "secondary"?
Brewing software is really neat. Organizes your records for you, and since Beersmith has tools for things like hydrometer and refractometer compensation, the others must have it, too.
What's a "secondary"?
Thanks man!! I meant secondary fermentation carboy so it can batch age for a decent amount of time while not on the sediment in the primary.
I was being silly. I don't do secondaries.
For really hefty brews I've taken to using the serving kegs as secondary fermenters. No room for long fermentations in my temperature controlled fridge/ferm. chamber, so these go in the guest room closet.
Most brews go from the primary to a keg that soon moves to the kegerator, as I take it @Clint Yeastwood does exclusively.
Even if the remaining slow fermentation doesn't drop the gravity much, it's still doing something, and can sometimes reduce excessive sweetness.
Most brews go from the primary to a keg that soon moves to the kegerator, as I take it @Clint Yeastwood does exclusively.
Even if the remaining slow fermentation doesn't drop the gravity much, it's still doing something, and can sometimes reduce excessive sweetness.
The problem with "secondaries" is the risk of oxidation and infection, a) during racking and b) sitting in a container (secondary fermenter) for several weeks or even months.
Beer can sit on a yeast cake for at least 4-8 weeks (in the "primary") without any negative effects. For most routine beers, there's no hurry to move it or getting it off the yeast cake.
For bigger beers (higher gravity, not volume), a "secondary" to bulk age can be beneficial, as long as precautions are taken to prevent oxidation and infection.
For most routine, "lower gravity" beers, secondaries should be avoided, as there are little to no benefits to be gained. Even if your kit instructions suggest "racking to a secondary after a 2-3 weeks," just ignore those, it's old hat, and mostly rebunked.
If using a secondary vessel, it should be small enough to leave only an inch of headspace under the bung. Racking should be done carefully and skillfully, without mixing air into the beer. Adding a little sugar to promote a renewed fermentation can help purge that headspace, or use CO2 from a tank.
As @sibelman said, kegs make good secondary fermenters/vessels, as transfers can be done without incorporating air (oxygen being the bandit).
There are many threads on the pros and cons of using a secondary, especially for bigger (higher gravity/alcohol) beers.
Beer can sit on a yeast cake for at least 4-8 weeks (in the "primary") without any negative effects. For most routine beers, there's no hurry to move it or getting it off the yeast cake.
For bigger beers (higher gravity, not volume), a "secondary" to bulk age can be beneficial, as long as precautions are taken to prevent oxidation and infection.
For most routine, "lower gravity" beers, secondaries should be avoided, as there are little to no benefits to be gained. Even if your kit instructions suggest "racking to a secondary after a 2-3 weeks," just ignore those, it's old hat, and mostly rebunked.
If using a secondary vessel, it should be small enough to leave only an inch of headspace under the bung. Racking should be done carefully and skillfully, without mixing air into the beer. Adding a little sugar to promote a renewed fermentation can help purge that headspace, or use CO2 from a tank.
As @sibelman said, kegs make good secondary fermenters/vessels, as transfers can be done without incorporating air (oxygen being the bandit).
There are many threads on the pros and cons of using a secondary, especially for bigger (higher gravity/alcohol) beers.
I've brewed exactly two heavy beers, so I don't think about this much. I don't know much about it.
What I wonder is how a secondary is significantly different from racking from a fermenter to a clean serving keg.
What I wonder is how a secondary is significantly different from racking from a fermenter to a clean serving keg.
"Secondaries" will be left at cellar (or lowish room) temps), so the beer can condition out, and in some cases even shave a few points off the FG.
A serving keg typically contains finished, carbonated beer, kept chilled in a cold room or kegerator/keezer. Any leftover yeast will settle out with time in cold storage, similar to lagering.
It sounds like the difference is the temperature more than the process. I can rack off the yeast cake, keep a serving keg at a relatively warm temperature for a while, and then chill it later. Doesn't that qualify as a secondary?
My experience suggests to me that yeast will keep working if there is anything for it to eat, even if a keg is chilled. I used to think yeast in chilled beer gave up trying, but I don't think that's true. I think people confuse optimal fermentation temperatures with necessary temperatures.
I don't remember the rationale for using a glass carboy. I know I threw two out.
My experience suggests to me that yeast will keep working if there is anything for it to eat, even if a keg is chilled. I used to think yeast in chilled beer gave up trying, but I don't think that's true. I think people confuse optimal fermentation temperatures with necessary temperatures.
I don't remember the rationale for using a glass carboy. I know I threw two out.
Let's see. Bakers and brewers use the same yeast species. Dough will rise in a cold refrigerator. Seems like yeast would also keep going in a keezer.
Yes, that would technically be a secondary. Until you chill it, then it becomes "lagering."
Yeast remains quite active, cleaning up after herself after the big bubbling event has completed. None of the 3 stages of fermentation are hard lined, there are wide transition periods from one "stage" to the next.
Yes, but much slower at lower temps.
I'm not sure at what temps a yeast's metabolism stops. At that point she'd become "inactive."
Glass is very impermeable, and has a small opening, that can be well sealed. Back in the days that's all we homebrewers had, glass fermenters. Decades before PET or (affordable) stainless fermenters came around.
They can be very dangerous when handled and they break...
In a word, yes.
It kind of sounds to me like any time the yeast has food, it's a secondary, even if it's cold. Maybe the purpose is the distinction.
My fridge is in the mid-30's, about like my keezer. Sometimes grape tomatoes freeze on me.
I remember using these things. I had to buy handles. What a pain. I don't see why anyone would use one now. No pressure fermenting. No transfer under pressure. Hard to clean. Fragile. Dangerous. Keeping O2 out during transfers must be fun. Back when I started brewing, people thought a lot less about O2. I believe I just used a racking cane with an open carboy and an open keg. Not sure. I don't think I ever did a closed transfer until this year. I fermented in buckets all the time, and before I quit doing secondaries, I moved beer to carboys. I don't recall setting a bucket or carboy up for closed transfers.
Oddly, the beer was okay with regard to O2. I had some infections, but I can't recall any obvious oxidation. I think I may have had infections because the buckets got scratched from improper cleaning methods. This is one reason I quit. I don't know why O2 didn't cause big problems. It may be that I purged serving kegs.
Stainless kegs are really nice. They seal up well. They ferment and transfer under pressure. I can have beer mostly carbonated as soon as it goes into the serving keg. Taking samples is painless. No glass to break. They also transfer heat very quickly when I fill them with warm wort and toss them in the pool.
There must be some reason why a person would use a carboy in 2023, but I don't know what it is. I would guess price, but if you can afford grain, you can afford a fermenting keg.
Since getting a stainless fermenter, I've only used glass once -- I just had to get another beer into a primary for some reason. Closed transfers were annoying and somewhat scary. I've given away some of my glass fermenters, and I'm wondering if there's a better use for the garage shelf that holds the remaining ones.
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Nothing about the three stages of fermentation requires that they be done in a different container do they?
Or I guess what I'm getting at is except for style specific reasons, the primary and secondary stages can complete in the same FV and once that secondary stage cleaning up the residual fermentable sugars is over, then one can assume conditioning is going on for the time it's still in the same FV that was used for the primary and secondary stages.
Yay? Nay? Sort of?
Reasons to move beer out of the primary fermenter:
- If a long fermentation is needed/desired, there's possible off flavors from extended contract with trub and yeast that undergo autolysis;
- The primary fermenter may not fit in your kegerator;
- You may need the primary for your next beer; and/or
- To drink the beer (i.e. serve from the primary).
bellhp
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I like my carboys ... i can tell when the beer is done by looking at it ... I gave my kegs away years ago and went back to bottles . The only downsides I hear are they are dangerous if broken . Okay , I can accept those terms.
I secondary my RIS in a barrel for 6-8 months and then bottle condition. I also have a solera barrel for lambics. So when I rack into the solera is that secondary? and what about the year it spends in a glass carboy on fruit after that? 3 years G to G and 2 secondary's or is one tertiary?
i dunno but the resulting beer is amazing!
Everything else gose from the primary to keg and awaits it's turn in the lagerator,mostly 2 weeks ambient and 3-4 weeks lagering.
i dunno but the resulting beer is amazing!
Everything else gose from the primary to keg and awaits it's turn in the lagerator,mostly 2 weeks ambient and 3-4 weeks lagering.
Instead of secondary, breweries call it a bright tank or a settling tank. The difference is you are using a different container to let yeast settle out and let the beer clear before moving it to your serving keg. If you transfer directly to your serving keg you have not allowed for this extra settling or clearing and you are taking all the “stuff” with you into the serving keg. The first couple pints will have more of the settled sludge.
If you’re bottling it makes no difference since you’re going to add sugar and make more sediment in the bottles. Unless you keg and counter pressure fill bottles after carbonation.
This is the one I’m going to go with. And not just that I want or need the fermenter - I want to re-use the yeast thats in it to make my next beer.
