Limiting O2 Pickup when brewing NEIPA

[troglodytes]

I've posted on the main forums before that I have an issue with my hoppy pale ales and I'm stating to wonder if its all oxygenation issues. I bottle condition and have actually enjoyed bottle conditioning for 7 years (although I'm certain I'll keg sometime in the future). But now after reading several posts and starting initial research I've resigned myself to the fact that my IPAs will always be below my world class expectations with my current setup.

So here's the deal, I'll be brewing an IPA this evening. Its a "Dialed In" clone so it involves whirpooling hops, two dry hop additions and a wine addition. On top of bottling I'm just thinking now of all the ways the O2 can make this brew go south. Below I'll list my goals for mitigating risk factors and I'd love any feedback as to how (without any further purchases, process change only) I can mitigate them further if possible.

1) I don't plan on preboiling mash water (I will not have the time)
2) I always build from tap water (we have soft water) and add campden tablets.
3) I'll mill my grains right before mashing
4) I will employ a covered, infusion mash and stir way more gently than usual (my tun is a cooler and I use a brew bag instead of a manifold). Contemplating a no sparge schedule, but would rather not as it will really hurt my efficiency
5) My mash pH is will be around 5.4 through lactic acid addition
6) I don't vorlauf, I just use gravity to transfer to kettle (aluminum unfortunately) through valve (brass) and silicone tubing
7) I always FWH
8) Bring to boil (propane burner) and reduce to a partially covered simmer for an hour
9) With 10 minutes left, I add my IC (copper unfortunately) to sanitize.
10) Add FO hops and whipool (much more gently than I'm used to) until beer is pitching temp (65F) probably will take about 15 minutes
11) Transfer through tubing to Speidel fermentor, and pitch active yeast starter immediately
12) On 3rd day of fermentation add all dry hops and wine so that active yeast scavenge O2 ingress
13) Take gravity readings and bottle through Speidel spigot and bottling wand (SS, yay!) directly from fermentor when beer is about 3 points away from FG. No priming sugar added
14) Drink fast

Are there any other tricks or tips I can employ to give this beer a better shot of retaining freshness, and do my processes look to be fairly sound? I've probably got 50 brews under my belt and I'd like to think my belgians, saisons, and porters are top notch. Now its just trying to figure out pale ales, and I hope this may be a step in the right direction for me.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Big Monk]

I've posted on the main forums before that I have an issue with my hoppy pale ales and I'm stating to wonder if its all oxygenation issues. I bottle condition and have actually enjoyed bottle conditioning for 7 years (although I'm certain I'll keg sometime in the future). But now after reading several posts and starting initial research I've resigned myself to the fact that my IPAs will always be below my world class expectations with my current setup.

So here's the deal, I'll be brewing an IPA this evening. Its a "Dialed In" clone so it involves whirpooling hops, two dry hop additions and a wine addition. On top of bottling I'm just thinking now of all the ways the O2 can make this brew go south. Below I'll list my goals for mitigating risk factors and I'd love any feedback as to how (without any further purchases, process change only) I can mitigate them further if possible.

1) I don't plan on preboiling mash water (I will not have the time)
2) I always build from tap water (we have soft water) and add campden tablets.
3) I'll mill my grains right before mashing
4) I will employ a covered, infusion mash and stir way more gently than usual (my tun is a cooler and I use a brew bag instead of a manifold). Contemplating a no sparge schedule, but would rather not as it will really hurt my efficiency
5) My mash pH is will be around 5.4 through lactic acid addition
6) I don't vorlauf, I just use gravity to transfer to kettle (aluminum unfortunately) through valve (brass) and silicone tubing
7) I always FWH
8) Bring to boil (propane burner) and reduce to a partially covered simmer for an hour
9) With 10 minutes left, I add my IC (copper unfortunately) to sanitize.
10) Add FO hops and whipool (much more gently than I'm used to) until beer is pitching temp (65F) probably will take about 15 minutes
11) Transfer through tubing to Speidel fermentor, and pitch active yeast starter immediately
12) On 3rd day of fermentation add all dry hops and wine so that active yeast scavenge O2 ingress
13) Take gravity readings and bottle through Speidel spigot and bottling wand (SS, yay!) directly from fermentor when beer is about 3 points away from FG. No priming sugar added
14) Drink fast

Are there any other tricks or tips I can employ to give this beer a better shot of retaining freshness, and do my processes look to be fairly sound? I've probably got 50 brews under my belt and I'd like to think my belgians, saisons, and porters are top notch. Now its just trying to figure out pale ales, and I hope this may be a step in the right direction for me.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds like you should target the cold side stuff for what you are after right now. When you are ready to go full on with the hot side we can certainly walk you through it.

BE VERY CAREFUL bottling with extract. You need to do an FFT, calibrate your testing equipment, and calculate the transfer gravity correctly. Also make sure your bottles can handle the pressure.

For every gravity point of remaining extract, you generate 0.51 volumes of CO2. Therefore:

CO2 from Extract = Desired CO2 - Residual CO2

Assuming 2.5 volumes desired and 0.798 volumes residual (use a calculator to find residual) we see we need 1.702 volumes from remaining extract.

So:

1.702 volumes/0.51 volumes/S.G. Point = ~3.3 points

Transfer Gravity = FFT Gravity Points + Remaining Extract S.G. Points

Assuming FFT of 1.009, you’d see that your guess, assuming conditions like the ones we used here, of 3 gravity points wasn’t far off:

Transfer Gravity = 9+3.3 = 12.3 = 1.0123 S.G.

Be sure to calculate it every time and practice conservatism unless using higher rated vessels.

 

[troglodytes]

I've bottled with extract before, as well as bottled through the krausening method. In the three times I've used krausen, I've over carbed. In this case I was going to go for 2.2 vols so I was planning conservatism from the beginning.

As far as cold side aeration goes, if I transfer through siphon to bottle bucket with priming sugar, then to bottle, the amount of o2 exposure is going to be far greater than bottling with extract, correct? Or should I pay it safe fully ferment and bottle as usual? I know either way will have active yeast but which will scrub the oxygen better and which will be the lowest chance of oxidizing all those dry hops?

 

[Big Monk]

As far as cold side aeration goes, if I transfer through siphon to bottle bucket with priming sugar, then to bottle, the amount of o2 exposure is going to be far greater than bottling with extract, correct?

Yes, but as much as I like bottling with extract, there are downsides, mainly the amount of yeast biomass that makes it into the final product.

One way to counter this is to calculate a small portion of the required carbonation to come from remaining extract (strictly for scavenging) and then supplement the rest with priming sugar. This can effectively cut down the sediment while keeping the pros of the method, which are fast carbonation and oxygen scavenging.

Or should I pay it safe fully ferment and bottle as usual? I know either way will have active yeast but which will scrub the oxygen better and which will be the lowest chance of oxidizing all those dry hops?

The yeast left after fermentation has completed are not sufficient enough to scavenge the oxygen introduced from packaging. If you plan on letting the beer finish, I would bottle ASAP with fresh, active yeast and sugar.

In order of reducing power, i'd say:

1.) Bottling with remaining extract;
2.) Bottling with partial remaining extract and supplemental sugar;
3.) Letting beer finish and dosing with fresh yeast and sugar;
4.) Traditional bottle conditioning

 

[troglodytes]

Thanks that's great info

 

[JJ900]

troglodytes, let us know how it turns out!