inr brewing - basement brewery build

[itsnotrequired]

6/11/2016 update

i was out all last week for business so no progress. i was supposed to be home on friday night but weather got me a bonus stay, sort of hosed my saturday but progress continues. started with more stuff in the mail:

rotating cip sprayball for my keg/carboy cleaner:

and some new magnets for my stir plate build:

i really wanted to get a starter going so i tackled the stir plate project. similar to others, computer fans with magnets in a case of some type. started by removing the protective grills from the fans:

grills and speed adjustment removed:

idea is to glue a steel washer to the fan and attach magnets to the washer:

next comes the 'case' for the fan. i didn't have any boxes or similar lying around but i have scrap wood. plan is for a plywood 'top' on 2x4 'feet'. cutting the plywood to size:

center of board marked for drilling:

hole drilled:

mounting holes for the fan drilled and countersunk:

fan installed (with magnets):

a view from below. due to the thickness of the plywood, the bolts that held the protective grills on there are not long enough to pass through both sets of mounting holes at each corner of the fan. so i just nutted them through one mounting hole. this stir plate won't be seeing daily use so it should be fine:

scrap 2x4 cut up for the 'feet'. these are to raise the plywood off the surface it will rest on and keep space around the fan for air movement. the fan is one inch think so a 2x4 allows for a half inch of free air space under the fan:

mounting the feet to the corners:

and the plate in action:

time to start some real brewing activities. boiling up some light dme for a starter. it has been about 12 years since the last time i boiled up some dme, the smell took me back to our tiny apartment in chicago:

wort cooled, poured into sanitized flask, yeast pitched and stir plate in operation:

since i had my wood tools out, i figured i would make a small frame for my keg/carboy cleaner, for the carboy drying rack to rest on for stability. cutting scrap 1x1 to length:

and the completed frame, with stand attached. notice the fancy spray ball as well. alas, i cannot use it to the fullest, the carboy opening is too narrow to slide over the ball! damn! oh well, it still works with kegs. i'll just need to thread it on-off each time:

since i had the washer setup, i took the opportunity to wash all my carboys (four).

 

[itsnotrequired]

6/12/2016 update

my starter hadn't shown too much activity when i went to bed the previous night but was looking good in the morning:

and pitched into sanitized mason jars. the two in the front will be used for my upcoming brew day (one jar for each carboy) and the one in the back is overbuilt yeast for a future starter. after this pic it was off to the fridge:

more general cleanup ahead of the first brew day. washing out grain storage buckets and cleaning keg lids:

i also got some other misc tasks performed:

• installed the new sight glass protectors on my kettle sight glasses
• stripped down all eight kegs and put keg lube on all the o-rings
• ran 20 gallons of hot pbw through all three kettles to get manufacturing oils off
• tightened up a few nagging leaks on kettle fittings

first brew day is targeted for this coming saturday. i am out for work again starting this afternoon but friday it is off to the lhbs to grab grain, hops and some miscellaneous parts (e.g. airlocks, stoppers, racking canes, etc.) a little area cleanup, milling grain and turning on the ro/di system to fill my hlt on friday night and i should be able to hit the ground running on saturday morning.

 

[itsnotrequired]

well, the day has finally come! it has been a nine month process but the inaugural brew day is here. strike water heating as i type, getting ready to mill the grain.

wish me luck!

 

[Braufessor]

Wow.... looks like a lot of work and prep to get to this day. Of course, the one down side to doing such a great job on your system and set up, is if your beer does not turn out great, there is nothing to blame it on

Hope you have a great brew day man - looks like you deserve it with all the time and effort

 

[jcav]

Hey that's great! Good luck with the first brew!

John

 

[BrunDog]

No way!! Good luck!

 

[Stillraining]

well, the day has finally come! it has been a nine month process but the inaugural brew day is here. strike water heating as i type, getting ready to mill the grain.

wish me luck!

Congrats! you have more patients then I that's for sure. Enjoy and have fun!

 

[cod3ck]

Sweet! Get a chance -- let's see some action photos!

 

[chessking]

Why the big rush?

 

[lschiavo]

He milled the grain, heated some water and realized he completely forgot how to brew

 

[itsnotrequired]

good news, i'm alive! lots of photos but those will have to wait but wanted to give an update. some things went good, some not so good...

problems started almost immediately, not a good sign. i'm using ro water so in an effort to keep it simple, i was going to treat all my hlt water with salts. started transferring strike water to the mash tun and realized i forgot to add any of the salts. i hadn't added the grain yet so rather than recalculate how much to add to just the mash, i decided to pump the water back into the hlt. not that big a deal but while screwing around with it, i turned off the recirc in the hlt. the rtd cooled and the system thought it was too cold so was firing the heating element constantly. by the time i realized what had happened and started circulating again, hlt temp had shot up to 172. well, guess i'm waiting for that to cool off...

so i move on to milling the grain. i set the gaps but then when i checked the first run of grain, it was hardly broken at all. most of the kernels didn't even look touched. look down at the rollers, looks like one of the set screws came loose leaving a huge gap on one side. reset the screw and the same thing happened again. wtf. finally realize that there is a nut on the screw preventing the screw from setting tight against the roller guide. loosen that, re-tighten and everything looks good. but now no grain goes through, everything just spins. grrr. finally discovered that a piece of grain had gotten stuck along the edge of the non-driven roller, preventing it from spinning. got that fixed and ran everything through. something was still wrong though, my crush was finer than i wanted. whatever, time to move on. good thing i had to wait for the hlt to cool down because it took about a half hour to mill about 12 lbs of grain.

okay, water cooled down and time to dough in. this went well as did the mash. pid controllers and temps worked awesome. my ph was a little low but i had a decent amount of roasted malts so i wasn't worried about it. no need for any lactic acid.

fly sparge went well but i might have gone too fast, only took 45 minutes. still, i was super-stoked to hit my pre-boil gravity numbers, 1.030 measured vs 1.031 calculated. i was a little nervous with that since i went all in on an assumed 95% efficiency. boil went excellent as well. heated up quick, pid kept a nice, rolling boil.

chilling was an issue. i have a stainless counterflow chiller so i was expecting a few extra minutes to chill compared to copper but damn, it took almost an hour to cool off the 12 gallons. i did the job but seemed very slow. no issues at all with the hopstopper but to be fair, i only had two ounces of hops in the whole batch.

trouble at the gravity reading before pitching the yeast. read only 1.032. huh? that's only 2 points higher than pre-boil. i boiled off damn near two gallons of liquid so either my pre-boil measurement was off or my post-boiled reading was off. right now calculating at 82% efficiency with a 2.7 expected abv. it is a mild but that's a little too mild, should have been closer to 1.037 og. i guess i'll see what shakes out after fermentation.

anyway, pitched the yeast and it is rolling along at 67 in my fermentation keezer. including clean up, it was a nine hour day. i consider that not bad for a first try. the milling/salt addition time alone should shorten the brew day but at least 45 minutes.

i'll try and post photos tomorrow.

 

[kal]

chilling was an issue. i have a stainless counterflow chiller so i was expecting a few extra minutes to chill compared to copper but damn, it took almost an hour to cool off the 12 gallons. i did the job but seemed very slow.

You're probably doing this, but make sure to flow wort and water in opposite directions through the CFC (it's a common mistake).

trouble at the gravity reading before pitching the yeast. read only 1.032. huh? that's only 2 points higher than pre-boil.

What did you use to measure gravity? Did you compensate for temperature?

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

You're probably doing this, but make sure to flow wort and water in opposite directions through the CFC (it's a common mistake).


What did you use to measure gravity? Did you compensate for temperature?

Kal

yep, definitely flowing in the opposite direction. how long should it normally take to cool 12 gallons? i'm in central wisconsin, groundwater temps are in the upper 50s (f).

measured gravity with a refractometer. i calibrated it that morning with distilled water and it has atc. once the drops are placed on the viewing plate, they go to room temp pretty darn quick. i check pre and post boil measurements twice each and still have the same numbers. i'll probably end up getting a hydrometer for comparison.

goods news is, 18 hours after pitch and i have a nice, frothy krausen with good airlock activity.

 

[jcav]

Well, you definitely are getting the kinks out! Congrats on the first brew day! No one's first brew day on their new systems goes off without any hitches. It's a new process and your system will do some things that are unique to your system. Keep a note of your boil off rate, a lot of people seem to miscalculate that, plus you do loose some wort in your hoses, chiller, etc. This way you can better estimate the total volume you need in the boil kettle next time, for the batch size you want to go into the fermenter. If you use BeerSmith or other software it will help you with that.

All in all you did well. Happy Father's Day! You made some beer!

John

 

[kal]

yep, definitely flowing in the opposite direction. how long should it normally take to cool 12 gallons? i'm in central wisconsin, groundwater temps are in the upper 50s (f).

Depends on the target temp you're trying to achieve. I usually aim for a fast chill to get the wort to 70F or below and with ground water in the 50's it's only about 20 mins, maybe even less.

measured gravity with a refractometer. i calibrated it that morning with distilled water and it has atc. once the drops are placed on the viewing plate, they go to room temp pretty darn quick. i check pre and post boil measurements twice each and still have the same numbers. i'll probably end up getting a hydrometer for comparison.

Probably not a bad idea. Not sure what went wrong, but I find that 99% of the time when people have issues with gravity measurements, a refractometer's involved.

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

just checked my tap water, it is at 64 degrees. i'm going to try some experiments with hot water to see if i can find a good compromise between speed and temperature. maybe try to chill down to 80 or so and then finish it off in the fermentation keezer before pitching yeast. i've read about others doing that who have high groundwater temps. i'm starting to suspect the inner tubing isn't convoluted.

 

[crusader1612]

just checked my tap water, it is at 64 degrees. i'm going to try some experiments with hot water to see if i can find a good compromise between speed and temperature. maybe try to chill down to 80 or so and then finish it off in the fermentation keezer before pitching yeast. i've read about others doing that who have high groundwater temps. i'm starting to suspect the inner tubing isn't convoluted.

Are you trying to get the whole body of waterto the appropriate temp? or are you chilling, and transferring after 15-20 mins to your carboy/bucket?

I wonder if this is your issue. I chill with a CFC, and after 10-15 mins i move the wort out hose to the fermenter - as its at temp already, then chill and transfer from there.?

 

[stratslinger]

Are you trying to get the whole body of waterto the appropriate temp? or are you chilling, and transferring after 15-20 mins to your carboy/bucket?



I wonder if this is your issue. I chill with a CFC, and after 10-15 mins i move the wort out hose to the fermenter - as its at temp already, then chill and transfer from there.?

This is the same thing I do - recirculate for a short time, then throttle back the output on the CFC and go straight to the fermenter(s) at whatever my desired temp is...

 

[milldoggy]

just checked my tap water, it is at 64 degrees. i'm going to try some experiments with hot water to see if i can find a good compromise between speed and temperature. maybe try to chill down to 80 or so and then finish it off in the fermentation keezer before pitching yeast. i've read about others doing that who have high groundwater temps. i'm starting to suspect the inner tubing isn't convoluted.

Stainless or copper. When I used my copper CFC, I could get to 70. My stainless I been around 80 or higher. I actually run a shell and tube and my stainless CFC in series to get better cooling efficiency.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Are you trying to get the whole body of waterto the appropriate temp? or are you chilling, and transferring after 15-20 mins to your carboy/bucket?

I wonder if this is your issue. I chill with a CFC, and after 10-15 mins i move the wort out hose to the fermenter - as its at temp already, then chill and transfer from there.?

i'm presently using a hopstopper and i've read the recirculating can cause clogging problems with cold break material. it is a stainless cfc. yeah, yeah, copper is a radically better heat conductor compared to stainless but at the metal thicknesses in play, it shouldn't make that big a difference.

 

[crusader1612]

i'm presently using a hopstopper and i've read the recirculating can cause clogging problems with cold break material. it is a stainless cfc. yeah, yeah, copper is a radically better heat conductor compared to stainless but at the metal thicknesses in play, it shouldn't make that big a difference.

You've confused me.

I'm asking about how your chilling - are you trying to chill down the complete body of wort before transfer? Or are you chilling, and transferring essentially at the same time?
I would recirculate, ad you can get a whirlpool going possibly, and if you use your chiller to re-circulate you can get your wort temps down quickly and transfer while still chilling if that makes sense.

My CFC the wort going in is still 70 odd degrees Cels, but when it comes out and into fermenter is a clean 20 degrees Cels

 

[milldoggy]

I use a hop stopper also. I do not chill to 80, I recirc and chill to 120-140 typically and then go to fermentors as at that temp, I can run pretty fast.

Recently I started using a large hop spider and hop stopper. It really helps with flow. You be amazed how much hot break and hop residue is on the hop stopper even with a stainless 300 micron hoo spider

 

[itsnotrequired]

i've modeled my system after kal's, no recirc of wort. one-pass from the boil kettle to the fermenter. but if others have good experiences with a recirc before chilling to fermenter, i'll give it a whirl. maybe a once-through wide-open recirc to drop it a hundred degrees or so and then finish with a slower chill into the fermenter.

 

[kal]

i've modeled my system after kal's, no recirc of wort. one-pass from the boil kettle to the fermenter. but if others have good experiences with a recirc before chilling to fermenter, i'll give it a whirl. maybe a once-through wide-open recirc to drop it a hundred degrees or so and then finish with a slower chill into the fermenter.

FWIW I do a one pass fast chill (~15 mins for 12 gallons) to go from boiling to 70F or under, then use my fermenting fridges to take it the rest of the way. My goal is to lock in the hop freshness as fast as possible by taking the temp down to reasonable levels quickly. I find it works well, but then I have pretty cold ground water for most of the year living up here in the great northern tundra.

If I only have a 60 min addition then I'll sometimes go slower and get the temp down lower as I'm not concerned about how long the wort steeps.

YMMV!

Kal

 

[milldoggy]

When I used my copper CFC, I could do what Kal suggest. I modeled my system after his and his process worked for 5 years. But I have been in a remove copper kick recently. Do not want to debate the copper thing, so don't start.

 

[Pantherjon]

So, if I understand correctly, the proper use for a CFC is to throttle back the wort output from the pump so it would take approx 30 minutes to transfer 5 gallons to the fermenter to get the temp down to pitchable-or close to- temp?

 

[BrunDog]

I adjust the output of my chillers (primary and secondary inline, primary cooled by ground water and the secondary by ice water) to go as fast as it will allow to hit the temperature into my fermenter. I can cool ~5.5 gals to lager pitching temp in about 8-10 mins in one pass depending on groundwater temp.

 

[lschiavo]

I use a therminator. I always ran my my chiller pump at max (not a huge pump) and tweaked the cooling water valve to give me the temp into the fermenter I was shooting for. One pass straight from the BK. I haven't brewed for a while and don't remember exactly how long chilling took but it always seemed quite fast. My tap water is at 56 right now (I guess there are advantages to living up north). Not too far from yours. I guess I would recommend a plate chiller. Works for me

 

[cod3ck]

I got the Hydra (http://jadedbrewing.com/products/the-hydra) and never looked back. I can drop a full keggle of wort down to pitching temps in 13 minutes or less. Plus, cleanup is a breeze with a quick hose down

 

[pretzelb]

trouble at the gravity reading before pitching the yeast. read only 1.032. huh? that's only 2 points higher than pre-boil. i boiled off damn near two gallons of liquid so either my pre-boil measurement was off or my post-boiled reading was off.

I'm interested to hear if you figure out this problem because I have seen something similar. I recently switched to a new electric single vessel system and I've seen similar results after my boil. I'm not sure how a refractometer could suddenly not work correctly but I can't see any other reason.

 

[itsnotrequired]

I'm interested to hear if you figure out this problem because I have seen something similar. I recently switched to a new electric single vessel system and I've seen similar results after my boil. I'm not sure how a refractometer could suddenly not work correctly but I can't see any other reason.

i busted out my old hydrometer this morning, checked accuracy in distilled water (accounting for temperature) and by golly, it is dead on. i'm going to be brewing on sunday and will measure gravity readings with both the refractometer and hydrometer.

 

[kal]

Measure at higher (non 1.0000) as well just to make sure things are ok there as well. While less likely, it's possible that the paper inside the hydrometer isn't linear/to scale.

Good that you accounted for temp too - not everyone knows that hydrometers are calibrated to one specific temp (usually 60F or 68F).

Kal

 

[BrewingChemist]

ok I have spent the last week or two reading through this thread wondering when you finally brewed - GLAD YOU DID!!! Awesome build thread, minor tweeks and you will have a superb brewday!

Dont let anyone dissuade you from your CFC. I use mine and have 10gallons of wort chilled to pitching temps in about 20mins. I do recirculate mine until it gets down to 120F (getting the whole wort down below DMS production temp), and then from there I just single pass it to the fermenters (and adjust the flow of the output with a ball valve to adjust the temp of the wort going into the fermenters). Everybody has their own preferred method of chilling, and they all work. Dont feel the need to drop a couple hundred bucks more into a different chilling method. Work with the one you have, it will work great just might need practice. Make sure you have the hot wort going in on the same side as the water is coming out, and the wort exit is the same side as the water entrance (so you get the counter flow effect). Do you have a ball valve on the outlet of the CFC?

 

[itsnotrequired]

ok I have spent the last week or two reading through this thread wondering when you finally brewed - GLAD YOU DID!!! Awesome build thread, minor tweeks and you will have a superb brewday!

Dont let anyone dissuade you from your CFC. I use mine and have 10gallons of wort chilled to pitching temps in about 20mins. I do recirculate mine until it gets down to 120F (getting the whole wort down below DMS production temp), and then from there I just single pass it to the fermenters (and adjust the flow of the output with a ball valve to adjust the temp of the wort going into the fermenters). Everybody has their own preferred method of chilling, and they all work. Dont feel the need to drop a couple hundred bucks more into a different chilling method. Work with the one you have, it will work great just might need practice. Make sure you have the hot wort going in on the same side as the water is coming out, and the wort exit is the same side as the water entrance (so you get the counter flow effect). Do you have a ball valve on the outlet of the CFC?

brewed again today, same issues. i'm starting to wonder if the inner tubing is even convoluted. everything is definitely setup correctly so i'm running out of ideas as to what the issue could be. i meant to try recirculating today but decided to go for one pass again. i do have a copper immersion chiller from my old extract kit, im thinking of setting that in a bucket of ice water and running the chilled water through that first before hitting the cfc. an extra 25 degrees or so worth of cooling has to count for something...

i do not have a ball valve on the wort outlet of the cfc but i do on the outlet of the wort pump running into the cfc, same effect. or maybe not?

 

[schematix]

i'm presently using a hopstopper and i've read the recirculating can cause clogging problems with cold break material. it is a stainless cfc. yeah, yeah, copper is a radically better heat conductor compared to stainless but at the metal thicknesses in play, it shouldn't make that big a difference.

Hop stopper in recirc loop is a guaranteed plug. Ask me how I know.

I added a second dip tube to get around this issue. I recirc with it, then switch to the one with the hop stopper to filter into ferm. And just in case of a plug-up, i've got another unfiltered port.

 

[crusader1612]

brewed again today, same issues. i'm starting to wonder if the inner tubing is even convoluted. everything is definitely setup correctly so i'm running out of ideas as to what the issue could be. i meant to try recirculating today but decided to go for one pass again. i do have a copper immersion chiller from my old extract kit, im thinking of setting that in a bucket of ice water and running the chilled water through that first before hitting the cfc. an extra 25 degrees or so worth of cooling has to count for something...

i do not have a ball valve on the wort outlet of the cfc but i do on the outlet of the wort pump running into the cfc, same effect. or maybe not?

Yeah - If your doing a 1 pass with your CFC, you may have issue, particularly is your running wort and waterfull tilt - I'd suggest throttling the wort flow for more contacttime with the col/cool water.

The additional Ice chiller could be a good idea, but I'd slow it down first, then make an informed decision from there.

What is your groundwater temp?
What temp are your getting from your single pass?

I assume you dont have a whirlpool fitting? If you did you could do as someone else mentioned and recirc into there for 10 mins or so.

 

[Carlscan26]

brewed again today, same issues. i'm starting to wonder if the inner tubing is even convoluted. everything is definitely setup correctly so i'm running out of ideas as to what the issue could be. i meant to try recirculating today but decided to go for one pass again. i do have a copper immersion chiller from my old extract kit, im thinking of setting that in a bucket of ice water and running the chilled water through that first before hitting the cfc. an extra 25 degrees or so worth of cooling has to count for something...



i do not have a ball valve on the wort outlet of the cfc but i do on the outlet of the wort pump running into the cfc, same effect. or maybe not?

You need a valve at the output of the CFC to develop back pressure to keep the CFC full to maximize the cooling effect by having wort in contact with all sides of the inner tube - put a T fitting with a thermometer at the output between the CFC and the valve and then adjust flow rate to get the temp you're aiming for.

 

[jerryk]

I agree with slowing the Wort down. Try just heating a smaller amount of water and test different speeds and or recirc.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Hop stopper in recirc loop is a guaranteed plug. Ask me how I know.

that is my understanding as well, hence my reluctance to recirc. i like the concept of the hopstopper and it has worked well for me so far. last brew was a two hearted clone with 8.75 oz of hops in the boil kettle (10 gallon batch). hopstopper worked like a charm. i didn't really need to slow it down near the end of cooling since i was already going so slow anyway.

You need a valve at the output of the CFC to develop back pressure to keep the CFC full to maximize the cooling effect by having wort in contact with all sides of the inner tube - put a T fitting with a thermometer at the output between the CFC and the valve and then adjust flow rate to get the temp you're aiming for.

the wort is solid in the tubing going into and coming out of the chiller (i.e. the tubing is completely full). i would assume that means the wort tubing inside the cfc is full as well. or maybe not? it seems very unlikely that it would not be full inside the cfc if it is full in the in/out tubing.

i think i'm also being too aggressive on the cooling, getting it into the 65-70 range. i think if i target, say, 80 degrees and finish it off in my fermentation freezer, it will cut probably 20 minutes out of the routine. throw in pre-chilled water through my old immersion chiller and i should be getting some pretty good times.

 

[itsnotrequired]

6/17/2016 update

all the grain/material laid out for tomorrow, the first brew day!

also filled the hlt with 20 gal of water from the ro/di system. i didn't want to fill it up too early and have the water sitting for a long time so i started it at 6:30 pm. ended up finishing around 1:15 in the morning!