Exhaust Duct for Basement Brewery

[A1sportsdad]

I'm trying to plan for converting to electric and moving my brewery into the basement. I have debated whether to go with an exhaust duct or steam condensing setup and decided I want to install an exhaust duct. What I don't understand is where to I penetrate to the outside world. Does this go through the rim joist or do I have to feed it up from the basement to the first floor and go out through the first floor wall. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[sleev-les]

Depends on what you want to spend. Condenser lid will be cheaper if the infrastructure isn't present. You could punch through the CMU and go out the side of the basement. May need some site work to dig and reseal your foundation or go through a window if your basement has one of those small style setups. Then you can infill there. You coule then run a goosenck type end and power inside for a hood. It will end up a lot more though.

 

[tracer bullet]

Don't forget that any air going out of the house via an exhaust has to be made up for.

If it's hot and humid outside when you brew, you are making that hot and humid air come into the house at the same rate your exhaust is blowing things out. Of if it's super cold out, same thing, you'll be making your furnace work a lot harder.

Steam condenser prevents any make-up air being needed. Also usually a lot easier to plumb one vs. many exhaust setups. Be very sure that a new exhaust is the best route.

 

[sleev-les]

Don't forget that any air going out of the house via an exhaust has to be made up for.

If it's hot and humid outside when you brew, you are making that hot and humid air come into the house at the same rate your exhaust is blowing things out. Of if it's super cold out, same thing, you'll be making your furnace work a lot harder.

Steam condenser prevents any make-up air being needed. Also usually a lot easier to plumb one vs. many exhaust setups. Be very sure that a new exhaust is the best route.

Poor mans way: crack open the basement door or window. Most kitchen exhausts aren't using makeup air units so it would just depend how big of a hood and motor he's using.

I do remember the reaction one of my customers had when we installed a brick oven in their restaurant. We had a makeup air unit installed in front of the exhaust to acheive the correct flow. It was done in a Decmember and the cold air hit the woman using the oven, she about ran haha. It was an extremely cold winter though.

 

[tracer bullet]

Poor mans way: crack open the basement door or window.

Definitely agree, there are ways to make things better, if the situation allows. I mostly mean to keep it in mind.

My basement has no doors or windows haha, and if our A/C is really cranking I can sometimes smell a tiny of bit of smoke due to air coming in from the fireplace's chimney on the opposite side of the house from the furnace itself.

 

[Bobby_M]

Most kitchen exhausts aren't using makeup air units so it would just depend how big of a hood and motor he's using.

Well there are no free lunches. If you want air to leave, you either create a vacuum or it gets in through every leak in the rest of the house. Obviously a consumer level blower can't pull a vacuum so it with either be ineffective at venting the steam or outside air is going to affect the conditioned air.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm trying to plan for converting to electric and moving my brewery into the basement. I have debated whether to go with an exhaust duct or steam condensing setup and decided I want to install an exhaust duct. What I don't understand is where to I penetrate to the outside world. Does this go through the rim joist or do I have to feed it up from the basement to the first floor and go out through the first floor wall. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

I think you'll regret this decision. Most people converting to electric don't appreciate how otherwise quiet the brew day is about to become and then you turn the fan on for the first time. Oh crap, that's loud. If you don't think it's annoyingly loud, it's because you undersized the fan and the problem at that point is you'll have condensate dripping back into your boil kettle.

If you must go with a fan, the shortest possible path out of the space will be best. That may be punching a hole directly in the block wall just above the kettle.

If you make a hole in the rim joist sitting on top of your sill plate, you don't want to exceed a diameter more than .66 x the joist height and it has to be centered. For example, if it's a 2 x 10, you can only make a 6" hole. A 2 x 12 isn't quite tall enough to pull off an 8" unless you break the rule a bit.

The other concern is that you will need to crack a window somewhere in the basement for intake air, especially if you have a gas furnace or water heater. You can otherwise create a downdraft and carbon monoxide poisoning stuff...

 

[DuncB]

Let your head tell you get a condenser, ignore your heart saying get an extractor fan.
Condensers are quiet, easy save boil energy and fan energy, plus heating or cooling house energy.
But you'll need some ventilation in your basement whichever route you go down.

 

[A1sportsdad]

I think you'll regret this decision. Most people converting to electric don't appreciate how otherwise quiet the brew day is about to become and then you turn the fan on for the first time. Oh crap, that's loud. If you don't think it's annoyingly loud, it's because you undersized the fan and the problem at that point is you'll have condensate dripping back into your boil kettle.

If you must go with a fan, the shortest possible path out of the space will be best. That may be punching a hole directly in the block wall just above the kettle.

If you make a hole in the rim joist sitting on top of your sill plate, you don't want to exceed a diameter more than .66 x the joist height and it has to be centered. For example, if it's a 2 x 10, you can only make a 6" hole. A 2 x 12 isn't quite tall enough to pull off an 8" unless you break the rule a bit.

The other concern is that you will need to crack a window somewhere in the basement for intake air, especially if you have a gas furnace or water heater. You can otherwise create a downdraft and carbon monoxide poisoning stuff...

Bobby, already re-thought it and will end up going Steam Slayer route. Since I’m in the planning stages I’ll set it up so I can run from a cold tap and drain to the sink. Much easier.

 

[DuncB]

@A1sportsdad
You won't regret the condenser decision. I'm assuming your basement has drainage or a sump pump will be needed in your plans. But every brewery needs sink anyway.

 

[dmbrew48]

FYI - good choice: steam condenser is the answer.
Moved from outside propane to an all-in-one, then to the basement for consolidation of materials.
First couple brews downstairs had water condensing/dripping from the air ducts - windows were open, added fans, added exhaust duct, bigger fans... realized it was either move the whole process, equipment, and material storage to the garage, or (light bulb time): steam condenser.
Am happily brewing with steam condenser & A-I-O in the basement and only going back to the outside propane setup for larger volume.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I have an exhaust fan that ducts through the rim joist to the outside. Works great and it's really loud. I installed some nice speakers in my brewery for music while I brew but can't hear a thing but the exhaust fan.

 

[khannon]

While I totally agree on the SteamSlayer or other steam condensers, keep in mind that one of the things they rely on is creating a "vacuum" of sorts. I built one to work with my keggle style boil kettle that has a 2" TC port on top, and had troubles until I got the lid to seal tight.
I also plumbed in a dedicated cold water supply above the boil kettle, it lets me use the sink water while boiling.

 

[tracer bullet]

I have an Anvil Foundry, and I have the hole for the recirculation open at all times. Seems to work well, I never see steam coming out of it when the condenser is going.

 

[matt_m]

Mine goes through the rim joist. However the only reason I run it anymore is to mitigate what dust I can when measuring out grain and mashing in. I control moisture with a steam condenser.

 

[SFC Rudy]

I spent more money than the cost of a steam slayer dicking around trying to rig something up that never really worked. Finally bought the steam slayer and should have started there.

One thing you need to realize with an exhaust fan is the air you are expelling has to be replaced from somewhere outside the house. I have a wood burning stove. I have to have a window cracked for combustion air, if not it will suck air from somewhere like dryer vents, bathroom vents, kitchen vent. If you have a gas water heater it will suck air through it's vent along with carbon monoxide.

 

[Deadalus]

I think you'll regret this decision. Most people converting to electric don't appreciate how otherwise quiet the brew day is about to become and then you turn the fan on for the first time. Oh crap, that's loud. If you don't think it's annoyingly loud, it's because you undersized the fan and the problem at that point is you'll have condensate dripping back into your boil kettle.

If you must go with a fan, the shortest possible path out of the space will be best. That may be punching a hole directly in the block wall just above the kettle.

If you make a hole in the rim joist sitting on top of your sill plate, you don't want to exceed a diameter more than .66 x the joist height and it has to be centered. For example, if it's a 2 x 10, you can only make a 6" hole. A 2 x 12 isn't quite tall enough to pull off an 8" unless you break the rule a bit.

The other concern is that you will need to crack a window somewhere in the basement for intake air, especially if you have a gas furnace or water heater. You can otherwise create a downdraft and carbon monoxide poisoning stuff...

I think you may be mistaken about the hole sizing on a rim (band) joist. I looked around for rules/codes for that when I did my hood and did not find anything specific on it. Maybe specific situations apply however. The rim joists are meant to keep the floor joists from twisting. The rim joists sit on top of the foundation. I've seen mention to maybe not put the hole under a door or window above and I would think it would be a bad idea to do it above a basement doorway possibly as well. I've also seen it written that they aren't structural. I'm not an engineer however. I'd recommend checking the building code for sure. My exhaust runs straight up to the joist cavity and then out through the rim joist. My rig is in the garage.

The older your house, the leakier it will tend to be air-wise. Not such a big deal sometimes regarding make up air. (Be careful regarding carbon monoxide of course.)

My cloudline 6" is sufficient to exhaust but I do get a little condensation. I wipe it down as I am boiling typically twice if I am paying attention, otherwise. I get a small drip off the front corner. It's pretty minor. I could rig a channel on my hood if I wanted to but it hasn't been worth the effort. I just keep one dry rag handy. Another option might be to center the BK but I would need long hoses to get from the MT to the HLT for the HERMS coil. The 6" cloudline is rated at 34 decibels and the 8" at 42 decibels. That's a lot quieter than most dishwashers for both. CFM on the 6" is listed at 352 and at 724 for the 8". I do run my 6" Cloudline at on 7 or 8 (8 is the highest) during the boil. I doubt you'd need to run the 8" on high. My pumps are louder though, I have a RIptide which is allegedly 66 decibels and a Flow which is allegedly 64.5. The Flow is actually noticeably quieter, part of it is it sounds smoother. It is slightly newer than the Riptide and the Flow is TC whereas the Riptide is NPT with a 90 in it. The pumps are louder than the Cloudline for sure. The pumps don't run during the boil but for a short startup before chilling or during the WP but then the exhaust can be lowered again. During the mash, the exhaust is at most set to 3 and contributes very little to the overall noise of the operation. It's only up around 6-7 that it's noticeable.

My music is highest during the mash and I turn it down entering the boil but I can always here the music fine and the volume is nowhere near full blast.
My March pumps were definitely louder than either the Riptide or the Flow but also a lot older. Well maintained though.

Not trying to convice anyone one way or the other on an exhaust fan vs steam slayer just keeping it fair.