inr brewing - basement brewery build

[skybwnd]

I painted mine before I started wiring. Have a few scratches in the paint already, but nothing that can't be fixed after I finish it....I'll just tape off all the lights, PID's, so forth.....and rattle can it again. The box looks a lot better in black (imho).

Scott

 

[kal]

I agree with Brundog, I'm such a perfectionist on stuff like this. Your spending a ton on this build as it is, and you want it done right, since you will have it basically forever. Every time you look at your control box and see the marks you will say to yourself, "I should have got it powder coated", or "I should have just went ahead and painted it".

+1. If you think the above applies to you, definitely paint it. Brewing's supposed to be fun and a hobby. Last thing you want is to walk up to your panel and be depressed because it doesn't look as "good" as you hoped.

The rustoleum primer and paint I recommend in my panel build instructions is great stuff. My panel's been through a lot and it's still every bit as perfect as the day I painted it.

Like any painting job, prep work and primer is everything. Make sure to give the primer and paint a good clean surface to adhere to.

Primed:

Painted:

FWIW, that polyester epoxy resin textured grey paint (RAL-7032) it came with is durable, but it's so friggin' boring.

Good luck!

Kal

 

[WI_Wino]

I would probably leave it but my basement is dusty to begin with. If the slight brown marks are visually concerning, could you cover them up with strategic labels?

 

[itsnotrequired]

eh, who am i kidding, i just know i would be annoyed with those scorch marks later on. for sanding down the enclosure, what does anyone recommend for grit? i'm thinking roughing it up with 120 and then finishing with 320. or is just the 120 good enough?

 

[stratslinger]

Question on the topic of painting: how have people's results been with the Rustoleum spraypaint/primer combo stuff? I tried using it with the first version of my control box (long story, but rev2 is only about a week or two behind rev1), and the finish didn't seem to stand up to much in the way of scuffing... How much different is the durability of the finish using the primer Kal lists, then using the Rustoleum hammered metal finish?

Also: awesome build so far - keep it up! I'm pretty jealous of anyone who has an area they can dedicate to this sort of thing; I'm more or less forced to use my workshop/woodshop area and try to keep the area as multi-purpose as possible.

 

[itsnotrequired]

1/30/2016 update

after weighing the cost options for powder coating, i opted to go with my own paint job. menards has their 11% off sale right now so i stopped by on my friday lunch hour to grab some supplies (paint and sandpaper). first step was to remove the door and strip down all the hardware:

not all the metal pieces in the upper left corner of the panel, remains from my filing work on the openings.

and a pile of door hardware:

no photos of the sanding process. i mean, it is just rubbing paper all over the box. i had some concerns with how to get the paper into all the nooks and crannies but noticed this product at menards:

that stuff is incredible. it doesn't tear, can be rolled up, really nice product. after sanding everything, i vacuumed the surfaces the best i could and then washed the box/door. some more dust came off with a water rinse and even more came off with some soapy water:

another rinse and ready to be dried off:

it is obviously chilly here in central wisconsin, needed a plan for painting. i debated setting up a 'booth' of sorts in the basement with some painter's plastic but opted to re-purpose the garage. it isn't heated but certainly warmer than being directly outside. i set a dehumidifier in there for a few hours to dry things out and warm it up a little bit:

painting time! i got everything setup so i could quickly bring the pieces out into the garage, spray them and then quickly move them to the basement for drying. yeah, it is below 50 degrees but for the short duration the pieces were in the cold, shouldn't be a big deal. i set the box on a narrow cardboard box so i could pick it up without having to touch the wet surfaces:

i used the same gray primer that kal used. i also primed the plastic parts for the door, on some fancy scrap wood holders:

the inside of the box and door primed and drying in the basement:

i waited a few hours and then moved the pieces back in the garage to paint the exterior portions. drying in the basement:

so glad i choice to paint the enclosure, it looks way better already. i'm going to let the primer fully dry before applying the finish coat. targeting monday night to finish up the painting.

 

[TylerAI]

Great start. You are going to have a blast putting the kit together. I just finished the same box, BCS controlled. The photos are in my build thread which is still in progress. When you start wiring, triple check every circuit. That book is great, but some diagrams are a little dated. You can print the complete schematics from the website.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Great start. You are going to have a blast putting the kit together. I just finished the same box, BCS controlled. The photos are in my build thread which is still in progress. When you start wiring, triple check every circuit. That book is great, but some diagrams are a little dated. You can print the complete schematics from the website.

yep, stumbled across your thread this morning and thought 'say, that panel looks familiar!'

i've already noticed several errors in the wiring book as well. the guide is set up for hlt-mlt-bk, from left to right when facing the panel. my setup is the opposite so i'll need to tweak the diagrams a bit anyway. i'm also bouncing back and forth on the safety circuit. the ebrew panel has the wiring setup to lockout power only to the element and pump contactors. the pids, timer, etc. would still be functional. kal's panel is setup so the circuit cuts out the main contactor, blocking power to everything. still debating which way i want to go...

 

[jcav]

I'm glad you decided to paint your box. It's coming out great already and you will love it when it's done!

John

 

[TylerAI]

I thought about the same changes to the estop. I decided that because of the BCS, if I hit the stop then I wanted to be able to check for process errors on my part. I would not be able to do that with the whole panel dead. I also added a 120v outlet on the side for wall wort chargers or whatever.

 

[BrunDog]

You should not have painted the gasket. The paint on the gasket will bond to the paint on the box and get all peeled off.

-BD

 

[kal]

i've already noticed several errors in the wiring book as well.

Is that my book you're referring to?

Kal

 

[CadiBrewer]

Is that my book you're referring to?

Kal

Nope, they are referring to the book they received with their kits from Electric Brewing Supply.

I just finished building a clone of your panel, Kal. I used the book that I purchased from your website. I didn't find any errors and I'm a bit OCD, so I'd have pointed them out to you if I found them.

 

[TylerAI]

Nope, they are referring to the book they received with their kits from Electric Brewing Supply.

I just finished building a clone of your brewery, Kal. I used the book that I purchased from your website. I didn't find any errors and I'm a bit OCD, so I'd have pointed them out to you if I found them.

That would be correct. No reference to your book Kal. Your site and posts were a valuable reference for me.

 

[itsnotrequired]

kal, +1 to what others have said, no worries on your writeup. the ebrew instruction errors are minor but for someone not familiar with electrical circuits/logic, it could be tricky to figure out.

 

[itsnotrequired]

You should not have painted the gasket. The paint on the gasket will bond to the paint on the box and get all peeled off.

-BD

even if everything is all dry/cured? i am only priming the interior but the primed gasket would touch the finished lip on the main enclosure.

 

[BrunDog]

My experience shows that paint on paint, unless cured for many months, will stick together.

 

[itsnotrequired]

My experience shows that paint on paint, unless cured for many months, will stick together.

it will definitely be several weeks before the materials touch each other. my thought was primer-on-finish wouldn't be as bad as finish-on-finish. i'm also thinking that the give in the foam will help. time will tell...

 

[BrunDog]

Cooler/drier air may help. Keep us informed.

 

[BlueHemlock]

1/15/2016 update

photo of the pickup tube hole, very little dead space underneath:

and a shot with the pickup tube inserted:

closeup of the pickup tube inserted:

Sorry to interrupt, I'm curious on the ease of installing and removing the pickup tube and false bottom from these kettles. Any concerns on removing the tube for cleaning purposes after each brew? Or is that a non issue?

 

[itsnotrequired]

Sorry to interrupt, I'm curious on the ease of installing and removing the pickup tube and false bottom from these kettles. Any concerns on removing the tube for cleaning purposes after each brew? Or is that a non issue?

i haven't used it in practice yet but it did take a little work to get the tube in and out. there is some 'play' in the false bottom in that it is narrower than the stepped bottom. so to insert the tube, i push the bottom as far away from the outlet fitting as possible, to give the greatest horizontal distance between the dip tube opening in the false bottom and the outlet fitting. the tube just barely fits with this arrangement. then i 'slide' the tube and false bottom toward the outlet to set the tube into the outlet. it is a friction fitting (i.e. not threaded).

 

[kal]

Nope, they are referring to the book they received with their kits from Electric Brewing Supply.

I just finished building a clone of your panel, Kal. I used the book that I purchased from your website. I didn't find any errors and I'm a bit OCD, so I'd have pointed them out to you if I found them.

Thanks for that! I'm OCD as well and have gone through that documentation front and back to make sure it's as 100% accurate as can be!

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

2/1/2016 update

primer has had a couple days to dry, time for some finish paint! first step is to prep the panel. clean work areas are ideal:

starting to blank off the various openings. i used the 'extra delicate' painter's tape:

time for the main enclosure:

i wanted to paint the lip of the enclosure but leave the rest of the interior simply primed, so some additional masking was in order:

masking the box in this fashion allowed me to paint the lip without getting paint on the interior but also let me 'flip' the box during painting, so i could paint the outside of the enclosure at the same time as the lip, without the need to touch any wet paint:

grabbed the sides and flipped it over:

i didn't need to flip the door so actually painted that first and moved it into the basement. after coating the exterior of the box, i picked up the cardboard box it rested on and moved the whole thing into the basement to dry. never touched any wet paint:

after a couple hours, i moved the pieces into the finished part of the basement to dry better:

i took a look this morning, i'm going to need to make another pass on the enclosure. i still have a little paint left, should work out perfectly. so glad i went with the painting route...

 

[itsnotrequired]

2/2/2016 update

well, BrunDog was right about that painted gasket. it wasn't an issue of the paint sticking to other paint but that the paint didn't stick to the gasket at all! i placed a couple pieces of tape on the hinges and some of it touched the gasket. when i pulled it off, the portion of tape on the gasket came right off. i dabbed the tape in a couple other areas on the gasket and it came right off:

closeup of the damage:

it came off so smoothly that i grabbed some fresh tape and started dabbing other areas:

and 20 minutes later, it looked as if i never painted it:

the only parts on the gasket with some paint left are where ebrew supply nicked the gasket with their grinder, cleaning up some of the slag from the cuts on the door. gasket seals totally fine but scuffing the surface was enought to make the primer stick to it.

 

[BrunDog]

Consider this a blessing! That paint would have ended up stuck to the edge of the enclosure.

 

[itsnotrequired]

2/3/2016

panel door has had a few days to cure so i decided to tackle some component mounting. i put a towel down on the bar to help protect the panel face and put a few lights in:

coming along:

the e-stop needs a couple extra contact blocks. they shipped loose and i had to install myself. first block addition:

and screwed into place. note the threading in the screw body, for stacking additional contact blocks:

second block ready to be mounted:

everything mounted except the pids and timer:

mounting the pids. there are these plastic 'wings' that mount to channels in the side of the devices:

an impossibly small nut is placed into the groove on the wings:

and a bolt threads through the nut and presses against the panel back, holding the pid in place:

two of the pids installed:

the timer had a different mounting method, a collar. the nuts/bolts cam pre-installed, an easier installation:

all the components mounted. i also re-installed the door latch:

and the front:

have i mentioned how glad i am i decided to paint it?

i also put another coat on the box itself, to cover the small pinholes and areas of weak coverage. same deal as before, set it up in the garage and carry it into the basement. should be able to start fooling around with that in a couple days.

 

[BrunDog]

Excellent. I'll hold back on a "told ya so".... Whoops!

Looks good so far. Gonna be sweet. Can you keep working on it and post up new pictures every 15 minutes?

 

[itsnotrequired]

Can you keep working on it and post up new pictures every 15 minutes?

well, i can't promise a post every 15 minutes but i can certainly take frequent photos and summarize progress. a bit of a chore to document all this but i like to progress photos of my various projects anyway. i've learned so much from the photo-heavy threads and would like to return the favor.

 

[AkBrew907]

Excellent. I'll hold back on a "told ya so".... Whoops!

Looks good so far. Gonna be sweet. Can you keep working on it and post up new pictures every 15 minutes?

This. I need to live through other peoples build threads till I have the funds and time to work on my own.

 

[jcav]

Looking great, and I knew you would love it painted! Gonna be another beauty on this forum!

John

 

[Butchhe]

this. I need to live through other peoples build threads till i have the funds and time to work on my own.

+1

 

[TylerAI]

well, i can't promise a post every 15 minutes but i can certainly take frequent photos and summarize progress. a bit of a chore to document all this but i like to progress photos of my various projects anyway. i've learned so much from the photo-heavy threads and would like to return the favor.

Your doing great on the photos. I would start working and not stop until I was done for the evening. Wouldn't even think about taking pictures of every step.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Your doing great on the photos. I would start working and not stop until I was done for the evening. Wouldn't even think about taking pictures of every step.

i hear ya, i get in the zone and have to remind myself to take a break. sometimes i'll work late on something and once i start dropping stuff, hurting myself, etc., i know it is time to stop.

and now to a new topic: spade lugs, yea or nay? i see almost everyone uses them in their builds but in my profession, almost every industrial control panel i come across does not use them. it seems more common with equipment from overseas. my thoughts are the lug is just one more spot for a potential failure. if the screw terminal is not properly torqued, it won't matter much if there is a lug or not. note that this applies to terminals with pressure plates. if there was simply a screw terminal (like on a wall receptacle), i would be going the lug route, especially with stranded wire. all my terminals have pressure plates so i'm leaning toward skipping the terminals, unless convinced otherwise.

 

[jcav]

I know what you mean, like when you wire the receptacle plugs, you would never use a lug, it has a pressure plate attached to the screw. Maybe cause it's stranded wire and not solid......

John

 

[paledragon]

I've always just put stranded wire into anything with a pressure plate. Anytime you daisy chain stuff together, I can see a benefit to spades over trying to secure two wires into a single terminal. It can be a PITA if you've got a lot of them. I've just always preferred skipping spades unless completely necessary. I ran my original control panel for 7-8 years without a single issue. Plus if you skip spades, you avoid having to match wire gauge with spade size, which gets annoying, at least to me.

 

[itsnotrequired]

2/4/2016 update

nothing fancy tonight, just pulling off the paper/tape masking on the panel. paper pulled off the back:

and all the paper out:

tape removed from bottom openings:

from the outside:

goal was to get a nice sharp edge on the 'lip' of the enclosure:

and sitting next to the door:

 

[itsnotrequired]

2/6/2016 update - part 1

today i decided to tackle wiring the panel, or at least a decent chunk of it. got rolling about 8:30 in the morning. shot of first wire landed:

i opted to skip the lugs. it is more work and one more source of potential failure. first circuit complete:

above circuit is the reset for the alarm. the ebrewsupply kits use a lot of different colored wire for different types of circuits. the tan wires are for the reset. as i went along, i highlighted the circuits i wired in:

starting to wire up the neutral circuits, starting with the power to the pids:

neutral circuit continued on to lights/switches. i kept the pid wiring 'up high' (i.e. not down to the door surface) but ran the lights/switch wiring against the back of the door, with the plan of using adhesive cable anchors to make everything nice and clean:

wire lengths were carefully measured, accounting for bends up and down to reach the door surface:

for stacked contact blocks, i removed the top block to wire up the bottom block. the screw terminals are accessible even with an additional contact block on top of it but the screwdriver needs to be at an angle. to get a better grab on the screw, i wanted the screwdriver in the best position possible. the black conductor is a 'jumper' on the illuminated pump on-off switch, to illuminate the switch when it is in the 'on' position. there is still neutral work to do but i wanted to take care of these lower blocks right away:

and with the top contact block re-installed:

i finished up all the neutral wiring on the door and then moved on to the safe-start interlock. a good chunk of this circuit uses pink wires. below is the selector switch for the hlt or boil element. like on the pump switches, top level of blocks removed for better torquing:

and the top block reinstalled:

wires are bent into shape before terminating:

there is one pink jumper on the safe-start relay on the back panel and since i had the pink wire out, i quick threw that one on:

on to some 110v wiring. i started with a jumper at the e-stop pushbutton and its associated indicating light:

110v power for the pids:

more wiring on the door. this area was becoming my main 'highway' for wires:

note that nothing is cable-tied or anchored down yet. i want to get all the wires in place first and then start fine-tuning. below is more color-coded wires, this for the element indicating lights. orange is associated with the hlt, yellow with the boil:

one spot where i needed a lug. the red wire is power for the alarm circuit and is #18 awg. it doesn't 'play nice' under the same terminal as a #14 (power for the pid). so i threw a lug on the #18:

more alarm circuit wiring:

and a shot of the door as far as i can take it, before i need to start running wires to the back panel:

with the door complete, time to move to the back panel, starting with some neutral wiring:

and now one leg of the 220v circuits (#10 red):

some of the other leg (#10 black):

some #10 jumpers on the leg of the hater element circuits that do not pass through the ssr:

still marking off progress:

wires for the heating element contactors. again, orange for hlt and yellow for boil. the coil of conductors in the background are for the boil/htl indicating lights:

 

[BrunDog]

Nice work. Lots or work documenting/posting. Certainly will help someone.

 

[cod3ck]

Definitely like the idea of highlighting the diagram. I'll keep that one in mind.

Not sure if this helps on determining wire lengths (or it's worth it in your case), but FWIW I saw on another post someone used pipe cleaners to lay out their wiring before cutting cables and connecting the dots

 

[itsnotrequired]

2/6/2016 update - part 2

so the more i looked at it, the more i realized how difficult it was going to be to get some nice, neat, straight wiring installation. and i noticed how i was running wires down some 'highways' anyway. i had snagged some wire duct from work with the thoughts of using it in my build but after taking a look at it, i thought it would look weird and didn't have a great way to attach the duct to the door/back panel. i made a game-time decision to start using it. first step was how to attach the duct so i wandered down to menards to see what might be available. and then i saw it:

this stuff would work perfectly. i don't have to hold any weight but i want something that was tough and wouldn't fall out. i decided to start with the back panel and cut some duct to length:

unfortunately, i was going to have to undo some wiring. a 'before' shot, with some wires disconnected:

tape applied to the back of the duct:

a progress shot:

all the wires in:

and with the cover on:

looks great! so i moved on to the door. i used a different type of duct for the door:

this stuff was a little annoying in that none of the ribs were cut so i had to bust out the scissors:

same as before, disconnecting some wiring to accommodate the wire duct:

duct installed, some wire in place:

all wires in place:

and with the lid on. even for this small bit of wiring, the look is much cleaner:

next place for duct was the other 'highway' on the door:

some of the wiring in place:

cover on, plus some duct in place for the temp probes and ssr wires:

with the back panel wired up, time to mount it in the enclosure. studs re-installed for mounting the back panel:

back panel installed, time to move on to the outlets at the bottom of the enclosure. started with one for the pump, noticed a problem when i lined up the holes on the receptacle with the taps on the enclosure:

d'oh, the receptacle body hits the mounting posts for the back panel:

a little trimming with a utility knife and i was back in business. i also terminated the wires in the receptacle before mounting it, no way to get to all the terminal screws otherwise. green is ground, white is neutral and the purple is the line conductor for the wort pump (more color coding):

wiring from the receptacles to terminal blocks (water and wort pump):

temp probe connector mounted. mounting holes were tapped, just had to thread a screw in (included), no need for a nut:

all three mounted. each connector comes with about six feet of cable and has lug terminals on the end for each wire, very easy to hook up to the pids:

wiring up an element receptacle. it was easier to wire it without mounting and eyeball the connections to the terminal blocks through the hole in the bottom of the enclosure:

finished shot from the inside:

all the receptacles in place:

i also threw the hinges on:

had some breaks here and there but all told, a good eight hours of work today. i'm very glad i decided to wire this myself, have a much greater understanding of what everything is and how it is put together.