inr brewing - basement brewery build

[itsnotrequired]

10/04/2015 update

awoke this morning and checked my phone to discover the infamous 'menards 11% off sale' was a go for this week. finally! i've been holding off on a bunch of building stuff to save the 11%. one big item i had been holding off on is the 30 amp gfci breaker to serve the control panel. this would normally be $108.67 (with tax) but i got it for $97.34 after the rebate. this isn't available at the store so i had to order it. still cheaper than what i was finding online.

ran to the store and grabbed electrical parts for stuff 'upstream' of the control panel, as well as some ductwork pieces for my makeup air system as well as parts to finish off my vent hood. i have some scrap frp and plywood lying around so decided to steal deprecated's design:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=371453

i eventually plan on having a keezer and fermentation chamber so i wanted to get some additional receptacles in the brewery area. like everything else i seem to do, first step was to get stuff out of the way. you can see the subpanel for my circuits in the background. before:

and after:

the cleaned up area would be the perfect spot for a keezer, with a fermentation chamber to the side. there is already a receptacle on the wall but it is part of the general basement utility area circuit which serves lights, the water heater (gas) and a chest freezer. i wanted a dedicated circuit for brewery stuff. rather than hack the drywall up and fish wires, i decided to simply take the drywall down. it is only two panels and they aren't even full size. first panel removed:

two new boxes installed, with wiring between them. a 20 amp circuit might be overkill but with the effort i was putting in, might as well get the extra capacity for a minimal additional cost:

upper piece of drywall removed:

openings for the receptacles cut into the lower drywall piece:

and the lower piece of drywall reinstalled. i don't have a drywall gun so simply cranked back the torque on the drill to prevent overdriving the screws:

receptacles wired up, installed and wall plates added. i purposely chose a wonky color to help distinguish them from the old receptacle. they will likely be covered with equipment anyway:

and the upper piece of drywall re-attached:

took a 'break' to get the frp attached to my plywood. the plywood is actually a nice piece of oak plywood leftover from my bar build. i've held onto it for a couple years thinking i would eventually find a use and lo, here we are! the piece is only 15" wide though so when i go to install the main frp on the half circles, i'll have to trim about an inch off of the 4' side of the frp sheet. shouldn't be a problem:

next step was the receptacle for the vent fan cord as well as the control switch. single gang box mounted up in the joists, you can see the distance to the fan:

and a shot of the box fro the control switch. i added a second box to control some future lighting. not sure what the scheme will be but i'm getting the switch in there now. the switches are mounted to a 2x4 which is glued to the concrete wall. it was the perfect size gap between the vent stack piping and the adjacent shelf:

and with the wires installed from the switch boxes up to the receptacle. there is also a dedicated 15 amp circuit wired back to my subpanel:

by this time, the packer game was on so i called it a day. my fan controller should show up today so i can get that all finalized. looking at the photos, i'm debating rotating the fan 90 degrees or so such that the fan junction box is on the back side, will make for a cleaner look.

 

[pretzelb]

Clever idea to color code the wall plates.

 

[Calfj60]

Keep up th great work!

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/06/2015 update

my variable controller for the exhaust fan showed up today. on a business trip right now so won't be able to get it installed until friday at the earliest.

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/10/2015 update

menards 11% off sale is still on so i grabbed some more supplies. picked up some track lighting and associated parts. i don't want to install it until i get my hood up but might as well get it on sale! today was a day to work on some more premise wiring. mounting the box for the 30 amp receptacle:

coming in the bottom of the box works best for wiring up the receptacle but i need to come in from the 'back' to avoid the 10/3 cable from getting in th eway of the cord to the control panel. so i mounted the box high up on a joist. my joists are engineered wood i-beams so they are a little thin for mounting a box. i put a small piece of scrap 2x6 on the 'other' side of the joist, to get some meat for the mounting screws. then i wired up the receptacle:

i hadn't stapled down the cable yet so i pulled some slack through the receptacle box to give some space to work. all kinds of pipes in the way and working at heights. ugh. wired up and installed in the box:

next up was landing the cables in my sub-panel. cables draped and ready for termination. the yellow cable is a 20 amp circuit for my keezer/fermentation/whatever receptacles, the white is a 15 amp circuit for lights/vent fan and the orange is the 30 amp circuit for the control panel:

panel face removed with the 20 amp breaker and circuit terminated. the 15 amp circuit is dressed:

everything wired up. i don't have the 30 amp gfci breaker yet but the conductors are all trimmed and ready for landing:

and with the cover back on. the 30 amp breaker will go in the lower left:

the pvc handy boxes i installed previously were way too small for the fan controller and lighting dimmer switch. so i swapped them out with larger boxes and wired up the controller:

and both switches installed:

this is the wad of wires i have in the fan receptacle box up in the ceiling. sort of a mess, taped switch legs galore. and of course, pipes everywhere:

but it turned out just fine. i used a gfci for plugging in the vent fan, figured it wasn't a bad idea with all the moisture passing through there. sorry for the crappy photo, damn pipes!:

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/11/2015 update

great weather today so the perfect time to tackle all the cutting for the vent hood. as mentioned previously, i am stealing deprecated's design. i'd glued some scrap frp onto some 'scrap' oak plywood earlier in the week. time to bust out the jigsaw and cut out the half-circles for the ends of the hood:

the cuts weren't perfect and i had some overhang on the frp anyway so i busted out the belt sander to smooth them up a bit:

vinyl j-channel mitered up for the end pieces. you can see part of the 2x4 frame in the background:

j-channel attached to end piece and screwed into the 2x4 support frame behind it. i used lath screws so the screw heads would sit flat. more j-channel to cut up in the background:

both end pieces attached to the 2x4 frame. i've left one long side of the frame not attached, to facilitate mounting the frp:

frp sheet rolled over the top of the half-circle end pieces. i'm using a flexible tape to mark the locations for the lath screws, to attach the frp sheet to the half-circle end pieces:

and driving in the screws. before driving each screw, i made sure the end piece lined up with the edge of the frp panel:

once both ends were complete, i measured and cut the remaining pice of the frame:

turns out one end piece had a slightly smaller radius than the other. i was left with a little frp overhang on one end, which tapered from one end to the other. a little pull saw work to clean it up (i'm inside now, with the packer game on ):

due to the curvature of the frp, there is a pretty decent 'gap' between the long sides of the 2x4 frame and the frp. shot below is the exterior of the hood. this gap will cause a problem when i screw the j-channel on the long side of the hood interior:

i had some pieces of wood lath left over from siding my sauna so i used those to fill in part of the gap. this will prevent the frp from getting 'squeezed' against the 2x4 frame when i screw in the j-channel:

that darn frp curvature gave me all sorts of fits! after i attached the long pieces of j-channel, i noticed the corners had a pretty good size gap. i suppose i could just caulk it but that will make for a less than desirable gutter system:

i had bought some frp outside corner trim pieces to finish of the area where the frp met the 2x4 frame but once i got things put together, it looked pretty good with out it. i though about scrapping the idea but put a test piece in on the long side and noticed it 'pushed' the j-channel such that it lined up the corners!

and the semi-finished product, a little caulk in the corners and some stain on the wood and this one is good to go:

 

[brettwasbtd]

Nice work on the hood

 

[Todd820]

Awesome work and great job documenting it all. Definitely following this.....

 

[kal]

Just curious: Are you having your electrical work inspected? I notice a few things that seem odd like no loop or slack before the single gang boxes (you're supposed to stable within so many inches and then leave some slack), odd looking romex 12 ga wiring (it looks flat?) and wire harness (looks like plastic?).

Wouldn't want you to get in trouble down the road!

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

Just curious: Are you having your electrical work inspected? I notice a few things that seem odd like no loop or slack before the single gang boxes (you're supposed to stable within so many inches and then leave some slack), odd looking romex 12 ga wiring (it looks flat?) and wire harness (looks like plastic?).

Wouldn't want you to get in trouble down the road!

Kal

no inspection but thanks for the comments. i do have a few more staples to put up but in general, i am taking advantage of the exception to 314.17(C) of the nec, which does not require nm cable to be secured at an outlet box, provided it is a single-gang non-metallic box and is secured within 8" of the box. there is no nec requirement to leave loops or slack at the boxes. the #10 cable for the control panel receptacles needs a clamp at the box but nothing else for staples while it runs through holes in the ceiling joists (334.30(A) of the nec). where cables run parallel to framing members, requirement is a staple every 4.5' but i used way more.

the nm cable (romex) is standard 12/2 (black, white and bare ground, all #12 awg). it comes as a flat cable. the 15 amp circuits use #14 awg of the same construction

not sure what you mean by 'wiring harness'. are you asking about the staples?

 

[kal]

Ok - never mind... you know what you're doing. Just looked a bit "non-standard" to what I see up here (in Canada).

I think I asked similar things in the past too. Carry on, ignore me.

Edit: Yes - I meant staples when I said harness. Cheers!

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/12/2015 update

my 30 amp gfci breaker showed up this morning so i stopped by menards during my lunch hour to pick it up. got home and dinner wouldn't be ready for 15 minutes so i quick threw it in my sub panel. landing the field conductors on the breaker:

breaker installed in the panel:

and the panel front re-installed. no more panel work!

i also lugged the hood downstairs to stain it, had a tiny bit leftover from the table build. i put some painter's tape on the trim to keep things clean:

and with the stain:

so nice to have the vent fan down there to suck out the fumes. tomorrow is a coat of polly and another on wednesday. then i start thinking about how to get that bad boy installed...

 

[RyanDe680]

Did you give any thought to covering the outside of the hood in aluminum/sheet metal?

 

[itsnotrequired]

Did you give any thought to covering the outside of the hood in aluminum/sheet metal?

nah, a bunch of extra cost/effort and i'm not much of a metal working guy. plus the frp matches the finish of my walls.

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/13/2015 update

not much work today, just a coat of poly on the vent hood wood

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/14/2015 update

another easy day. sanded the first coat of poly and threw the second (final) coat on. tomorrow's plan is to caulk the seams/gutters and it will be ready for hanging. but in more interesting news, a large package was waiting on my porch when i got home from work:

actually four boxes taped together:

and the prize:

of course, i won't be able to do anything with these for several months but they were on sale and it was my birthday.

 

[pretzelb]

10/14/2015 update
another easy day.

You and I have VERY different definitions of "easy" day.

I hate to say it but those kegs look great. I've only owned used kegs and thought they were fine but wow they look really good brand new.

 

[itsnotrequired]

I hate to say it but those kegs look great. I've only owned used kegs and thought they were fine but wow they look really good brand new.

price was hard to beat. normally $119 each, on sale for only $75 (33% off).

 

[iijakii]

You and I have VERY different definitions of "easy" day.

I hate to say it but those kegs look great. I've only owned used kegs and thought they were fine but wow they look really good brand new.

Look up the single handle (no rubber) ones! So shiny.

Used kegs work, and you definitely cant argue with the price if you can find 'em on CL and what not. Most of my old used ones gave me blackhands everytime I touched the rubber though. Hated them.

 

[kal]

Most of my old used ones gave me blackhands everytime I touched the rubber though. Hated them.

Weird. I have 19 of them of various ages (all used ball lock) and none of them do this. I've always preferred the exact style shown here because they're easier to lift I find with two thick handles. (More info on why I like'em here).

Kal

 

[pretzelb]

Look up the single handle (no rubber) ones! So shiny.

Used kegs work, and you definitely cant argue with the price if you can find 'em on CL and what not. Most of my old used ones gave me blackhands everytime I touched the rubber though. Hated them.

The only ones I have owned are the rubber handles but none have given me blackhands. Maybe I've been lucky?

My LHBS has a decent supply of them too so it would be really hard for me to justify a brand new one. Especially if I'm feeling really "green" and wanting to recycle. But they sure do look nice when they are new. It's tempting for sure!

As a side note, I must say that it is very annoying having to work through the "secret" issues with used kegs. Most of mine seemed great a first but slowly you see leaks and such. It's not much to fix them but boy it's annoying to realize that a fix is needed.

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/17/2015 update

today is the day to get that vent hood hung. i had originally planned on using some chains to hang it from hooks and thread the hooks in and out as necessary to get any type of leveling or sloping i wanted. i felt like a dummy once i realized long turnbuckles would accomplish the same thing, be easier to install and offered more fine-tuned control. swapped the components and nailed up some 'spanners' for the hooks. the joists didn't line up exactly where i wanted to hang the hood so i screwed in some scrap 2x4 to get a mounting surface:

same old story, working in cramped spaces:

hooks and turnbuckles installed:

now to hoist that hood up there. it isn't that heavy, just bulky as hell. the brew stand proved to be a key ally for the installation:

and now the front suspended:

all looks good but i have a slight problem. i wanted the back of the hood to be flush against the rear wall but due to the location of overhead ductwork, i needed to mount the front hooks further away from the hood than i wanted. the result is 'pulling' the hood away from the wall:

i needed to get those front hooks closer to the wall. thankfully, the offending piece of ductwork is flex duct for the bathroom vent above (bathrooms vent through a common, centralized fan). after shifting that around, i was able to get the hooks where they needed to be:

hood is now flush with the rear wall. this photo is a better shot of the adjusted flex duct. it is more or less in the same spot as before, just shifted ever so slightly for the turnbuckle:

 

[itsnotrequired]

10/18/2015 update

with the hood in place, i had a better feel for how the track lighting should be laid out. too far back and the light will be quite horizontal, leading to shadowing at the brew stand. too close to the hood and the concern is not enough light angles on to the brew stand. the edge of most ceiling electrical boxes are designed to sit a half inch below the bottom of a ceiling joist, to allow for a flush edge after drywall is attached. i'm not finishing the ceiling here so i needed a half inch 'runner' to mount the track to, so it is flush with the electrical box. there is an existing light fixture in the spot i really want to place the lighting so i tried to avoid it:

before i got everything mounted up, i wanted to test how the lighting look so i temporarily rigged up the branch circuit to the track:

this will pass inspection, right?:cross:

position just didn't work. it was too close to the 5" duct for the central bathroom exhaust. light wasn't too bad on the brew stand but the lights had to point straight down and i couldn't turn them. decided to move the existing light fixture over and slide the track away from the hood:

and installed:

next step was makeup air for the ventilation system. there is a furnace fresh air intake on the wall opposit the brew stand. rather than hack another opening in the house exterior, i decided to tee into this insulated flex duct. the run from the exterior to the furnace is too long so i cut into it at an existing splice. insulation cut back:

and cut loose:

tee fitting attached:

frankenstein monster! insulation around the backside of the tee and rough taped into place:

'cleaned up' with some black poly sheeting and a cap piece. piece will be removed when i want to vent:

my original plan was to have a damper downstream of the tee. this would be open during non-brew situations, so the furnace can draw fresh outside air as required (you can see the damper in the first photo with the tee). i realized that trying to insulate around the damper operator would be a total hassle so i pulled it out. i was guessing that even without the damper, most of the outside air would flow through the tee into the brew area with the vent fan on. a test revealed this not to be the case. i tried to stuff a rag into the downstream section of the tee but that didn't work very well either. then i remembered there is a weighted damper on the fresh air intake right at the furnace. the damper is weighted so it is normally closed and opens on negative pressure. the greater the negative pressure in the house, the more the damper opens. wedging a stick or whatever on the damper operator results in closing of the damper and all the fresh air going into the brew area. confirmed with test:

now it was time to tie the hood into the exhaust fan. test fitting the exhaust duct:

marking the hood for the duct connection, with pilot hole drilled for jigsaw:

i had dreams of cutting the hole with the hood in the suspended position but it was simply too floppy on the turnbuckles. with how easy it was to put the hood up, i simply took it down to cut the hole:

and looking down the exhaust hole toward the exhaust fan. a bit of a shoddy cut in the lower left. upper left had a problem with the screw for attaching the frp punching into the opening about an eighth of an inch:

cleaned up the opening with some foil tape. duct is sloped toward the hood so this tape will direct any condensation from the duct into the hood gutters below:

exhaust duct in place:

and a shot with the track lighting. you can see the exhaust opening inside the hood (and i cleaned the place up a bit):

i need to caulk a few seams in the hood but then that's about it for 'infrastructure' work. everything else is brew equipment/keezer/fermentation related. that frp is slightly translucent so a little light makes its way into the hood area. i still think a rope light or similar along the rear wall under the hood will brighten everything up.

 

[itsnotrequired]

12/8/15 update

long time, no post but yes, my project is still moving forward! a new baby and funds have slowed things down a bit. quite a few items on order, just wiating on shipping. some stuff did show up today:

last time i got kegs, it was shipped as the individual boxes taped together. this time, they came in a larger box that was perfectly sized:

 

[jcav]

Congrats on the new baby! I bought some of those kegs also when they went on sale. Man are they nice! Keep us posted as you can spare the funds and progress on your build.

John

 

[itsnotrequired]

12/15/2015 update

i picked up the freezer for my keezer build:

kegs are empty but i couldn't help throwing them in there:

it is a frigidaire 15.6 cu ft freezer. i can fit nine ball kegs in it, a #10 co2 tank and a small eva-dry without a collar. i plan on adding a collar for the taps and with that, i can get two more kegs on the compressor hump for a total of eleven kegs.

 

[cod3ck]

That's awesome!!!

 

[itsnotrequired]

12/17/2015 update

after six agonizing weeks, my first 'real' piece of brewing equipment showed up today: one of the new spike v3 kettles! specifically, my hlt. i did a custom order with them to get the necessary fittings welded on. wow, this thing is incredible. it doesn't make the beer taste any better but the spike packaging is a nice touch:

opening the box, it is well packaged. not the double-walled sides on the shipping box, with air gap between:

pulling out the tube from the lower left, which i can only assume is the sight glass:

i'm a genius!:

it comes with a brush for cleaning which is alas, too short to clean the glass from one end. no worries, it is long enough to reach over halfway down the tube, to allow cleaning from both ends:

it also comes with an engraved heat shield for the sight glass. this is an electric build so i don't need it but a nice touch with the engraving. no photo but it comes in a ziploc bag:

the assembly comes apart at both ends. it is a friction fit where the glass connects to the fitting:

the lid comes wrapped in plastic:

the handle is seamlessly attached, only some slight buffing on the backside of the lid. the grip is solid and comfortable:

another box inside the kettle, well wrapped:

and well packed:

inside is the dip tube, wrapped in a ziploc bag:

as i understand this is not their standard dip tube. spike had a boo-boo on the elevation for my discharge fitting but offered up a custom dip tube at no charge. a little rough on the intake excellent customer service!:

there is a threaded connection to the kettle but a friction fit for the tube, very easy to remove:

kettle removed to show the thick foam at the bottom of the shipping box. the cardboard is a bit beat up but the double-walled box makes for no shipping damage:

and here she is, in all her plastic-wrapped glory. the weight is incredible, very well constructed:

appears to be a custom tag, not sure if this ships on standard orders. this number was also on the shipping box:

gigantic tattoo:

discharge fitting. beautiful welding, fitting is square and level to the kettle:

2" tri-clamp fitting for my heating element. i will be going with ripple elements and it will be easier to snake into the kettle with a 2" connection vs. a 1.5":

looking through the connection, with the discharge and bottom herms coil fittings on the opposite side:

gallon markings on the interior, with the tri-clamp connection at the bottom and recirc water inlet on the top:

internal weld detail. amazing:

bottom of the kettle. tri-clad bottom, very heavy. good for direct fire or induction:

internal shot of the tri-clamp fitting:

lid hanging on the side handle:

dip tube connection. only about 1/8" off the bottom, maybe less:

sight glass attached to the kettle:

and a test spot on the brew stand. kettle is a monster, those are 750 ml bottles next to it:

the weight of this thing is insane. very solid. hard to balance on the scale but it reads 21 pounds:

 

[stever1000]

Beautiful kettle! Wow!

 

[ccfoo242]

Wow nice! I like that Spike and SsBrewtech have stepped in with quality hardware to compete with Blichmann.

 

[BrunDog]

Hey INR... Are those sight glass fittings a custom design?

 

[kal]

Wow nice! I like that Spike and SsBrewtech have stepped in with quality hardware to compete with Blichmann.

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I see lots of things that I wouldn't want / don't like about these kettles when comparing to Blichmann. Everyone has to make their own choices but when they were first announced all I could see what the downsides if I was to use them on my setup:

- Sight glass cleaning is far more difficult. You have to completely disassemble the sight glass every time (into 3 pieces) in order to pass the brush through. On Blichmanns there's a nut at the top sight glass bracket: Remove the nut with the allen key (included), a quick up/down swipe of the brush (also included), replace the nut, and then push some water through one of the two holes to rinse. It's a quick 30 seconds because the sight glass isn’t removed. Pictures here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview?page=4

- Sight glass has no etching on these kettles. You have to open the lid every time you want to measure. This gets annoying fast.

- Clad bottom is useless other than those looking to do induction. People talk about even heat distribution but that's only relevant if you you're making something like thick spaghetti sauce. For beer brewing (other than induction) all it does is add weight and cost with zero benefit. Wort is not very thick and won’t scorch as the thin nature keeps it moving through natural convection. End result is a heavy kettle, harder to move around. Clad bottoms to avoid scorching make sense when heating thicker liquids like spaghetti sauce that do not move around naturally. Blichmann does not have a clad bottom for this reason.

- 5/8" pick up tube is non-standard sizing. Limits the types of hop filters you can use. Having the dip tube a slightly larger 5/8” won’t help with flow when there’s anywhere between 12-50 feet of ½” tubing or HERMS coil after it. You need a wrench to move it too. On the Blichmann you just pull it out by hand.

- The false bottom has more protrusions on the top than the Blichmann. This makes it harder to stir when mashing in as you’re hitting the stuff on the bottom. Blichmann only has the small dip tube that sits close to the side wall near the ball valve, and nothing else. Pictures: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview?page=6

- I do like the "real" ball valve on the output. I don't like the new Blichmann flow valve, but it can be easily replaced. Wished they offered buyers the choice.

- Their ball valve however sticks out much farther than the Blichmann kettles given the welded fitting and nipple that you use. On my brewery design the HLT and MLT have a Tee and QD after the valve so using your kettles would result in parts that stick out even farther (2”?) making them more difficult to move around/clean/etc. The added weight doesn't help either. You may be able to reduce some of the length by using a close nipple instead of the one in the pictures that Spike Brewing's been showing. (that’s what I recommend on my HLT and MLT between the ball valve and Tee – pictures here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/mash-lauter-tun?page=4 ).


Just some quick thoughts! I don't want to dissuade and am not saying they aren't well made (the welds look great!), but everyone should look at how you brew and choose accordingly as there's more than one way to approach this and what works best for one person may not be best for someone else.

Full disclosure: The owner of Spike Brewing wanted to send me kettles for free and offered to have me feature them on my website in return for a commission on each unit I helped sell. I would have made more money off these than recommending Blichmann but at the end of the day I saw no advantages at all when used on my 3 kettle single tier design so I said no. I'm not going to lie/make up stuff to make a few extra bucks.

Everyone should pick/choose what works for them and their brewing process.

Cheers!

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

- Sight glass cleaning is far more difficult. You have to completely disassemble the sight glass every time (into 3 pieces) in order to pass the brush through.

the brush that came with the sight glass is very flexible. can't i push it in through the top and bottom openings in the kettle and then flush water through the top hole to clean?

- Sight glass has no etching on these kettles. You have to open the lid every time you want to measure. This gets annoying fast.

the sight glass has etching although it is very faint (technically the protective steel tube has the etching, not the glass itself). i have contacted spike about this and they are looking into it. definitely seems like it should be easier to read. the internal gallon markings come standard on the kettle.

- Clad bottom is useless other than those looking to do induction.

correct, i was just mentioning it for those looking to go induction or use on a gas burner (if you have concerns with thin bottoms for gas). same deal with the heat shield for the bottom of the sight glass. useless to me but worthwhile for those on gas.

- 5/8" pick up tube is non-standard sizing. Limits the types of hop filters you can use. Having the dip tube a slightly larger 5/8” won’t help with flow when there’s anywhere between 12-50 feet of ½” tubing or HERMS coil after it. You need a wrench to move it too. On the Blichmann you just pull it out by hand.

yeah, the larger size seems of nebulous benefit but you do not need a tool to remove the dip tube. it has a friction fitting for the tube. true, that fitting is threaded into the coupling but you can easily pull the tube portion off.

- The false bottom has more protrusions on the top than the Blichmann. This makes it harder to stir when mashing in as you’re hitting the stuff on the bottom. Blichmann only has the small dip tube that sits close to the side wall near the ball valve, and nothing else. Pictures: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview?page=6

yep, tube is more in the way. i don't view this as a major issue though since after the initial mash, there isn't much need for stirring. at least i won't have a useless brewing thermometer probe in my way.

- I do like the "real" ball valve on the output. I don't like the new Blichmann flow valve, but it can be easily replaced. Wished they offered buyers the choice.

you nailed it, having a choice. the spike kettles do not come with the valve or with a thermometer. the user has the option of using a quarter-turn or three-piece valve, using a valve they already have, etc. similar with no built in thermometer or sight glass, the user can add if they wish. that was one of the turnoffs for me compared to the blichmann, that you are 'forced' to get a sight glass, outlet valve and thermometer, whether you want them or not.

- Their ball valve however sticks out much farther than the Blichmann kettles given the welded fitting and nipple that you use. On my brewery design the HLT and MLT have a Tee and QD after the valve so using your kettles would result in parts that stick out even farther (2”?) making them more difficult to move around/clean/etc. The added weight doesn't help either. You may be able to reduce some of the length by using a close nipple instead of the one in the pictures that Spike Brewing's been showing. (that’s what I recommend on my HLT and MLT between the ball valve and Tee – pictures here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/mash-lauter-tun?page=4 ).

yep, the valves will stick out a bit further but not an obscene amount, maybe only an inch or so. the added weight doesn't 'help' but speaks to the ruggedness of construction. this thing is bomb-proof!

Just some quick thoughts! I don't want to dissuade and am not saying they aren't well made (the welds look great!), but everyone should look at how you brew and choose accordingly as there's more than one way to approach this and what works best for one person may not be best for someone else.

Everyone should pick/choose what works for them and their brewing process.

Cheers!

Kal

i don't have any skin in the welded vs weldless game. i'm not good with metal work and the cost for spike to add the additional fittings i requested was very reasonable for me i picked spike for a few reasons:

• custom: i was able to have spike add all the couplings i needed for the herms coil, water inlet and heating element. i didn't need to screw around with making my own openings and i'm not much good with metal work anyway.
• features: i like being able to purchase a kettle with the features i want, not what someone else thinks i need. a la carte shopping makes more sense to me.
• price: my custom kettle was about the same as the corresponding blichmann model but with the blichmann i would have had to make all my own holes. did i mention i'm not into metal work?
• customer service: answered e-mail promptly, patiently putting up with all my nagging questions.
• assembled in wisconsin: what can i say, i like to keep money in-state.

you're last statement sums it up perfectly: do what works best for you! i'm not trying to convince people to choice spike over another brand, just doing a little 'product review' in case folks were interested.

 

[kal]

the brush that came with the sight glass is very flexible. can't i push it in through the top and bottom openings in the kettle and then flush water through the top hole to clean?

Wow! That is flexible. If you can do that (turn a 90 degree corner) then by all means do that. That's actually a great feature.

you're last statement sums it up perfectly: do what works best for you! i'm not trying to convince people to choice spike over another brand, just doing a little 'product review' in case folks were interested.

Exactly! In retrospect I feel bad for posting this in your thread as it doesn't really belong here (sorry about that - I don't want to derail). As long as people consider all options to make sure they get what's best for them, that's all that matters! Your kettles should last you a lifetime. Happy brewing!

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

Hey INR... Are those sight glass fittings a custom design?

can't say for sure, i don't have a lot of experience with sigh glasses. looks to be a 3/8" compression fitting on one end of the elbow, like you would see on a blichmann dip tube. this is the end the glass tube inserts into. that fitting is integrally cast with the elbow (i.e. a solid piece). other ended is threaded with a hex nut, hex and thread rotate together. possibly attached with a flare/compression fitting? 'sb' is etched into the side of the elbow. maybe it is a commercially available fitting but spike has certainly customized it with the etching.

Wow! That is flexible. If you can do that (turn a 90 degree corner) then by all means do that. That's actually a great feature.

got home tonight and tried the brush through the 90. yeah, that ain't going to work! the blichmann glass seems pretty cool with that nut. taking mine apart will be a pain but my thoughts are i can make a fitting on the end of a hose to just blast water through the thing. seems like it would work pretty well if i do it right after draining the boil kettle. might need to take it apart for a crazy hopped beer, due to the oils.

In retrospect I feel bad for posting this in your thread as it doesn't really belong here (sorry about that - I don't want to derail). As long as people consider all options to make sure they get what's best for them, that's all that matters! Your kettles should last you a lifetime. Happy brewing!

Kal

oh my gosh, no worries! stumbling across your site is the whole reason i am here now. a homebrewer with an awesome setup AND a sauna enthusiast? what's not to like?

it just seems like blichmann has been the 'cadillac' for many years and there has been a wide gap between them and the competition. this is at a high price, of course. seems like spike has really stepped up the game with their new v3. both manufacturers have a great product, nice to know there are options out there for folks looking to go 'all in'.

 

[ccfoo242]

Don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I see lots of things that I wouldn't want / don't like about these kettles when comparing to Blichmann. Everyone has to make their own choices but when they were first announced all I could see what the downsides if I was to use them on my setup:

No umbrellas needed. I see your points.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

- Sight glass cleaning is far more difficult. You have to completely disassemble the sight glass every time (into 3 pieces) in order to pass the brush through. On Blichmanns there's a nut at the top sight glass bracket: Remove the nut with the allen key (included), a quick up/down swipe of the brush (also included), replace the nut, and then push some water through one of the two holes to rinse. It's a quick 30 seconds because the sight glass isn’t removed. Pictures here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview?page=4

Although it's true you can clean the sight glass when the top nut is taken out you can't clean the gunk inside the 90* bend or around the weld-less nut on the inside unless disassembled. Here's a quick video of how easy it is to take apart our sight glass and throughout clean all parts.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CBtNnaOXB0[/ame]

- Sight glass has no etching on these kettles. You have to open the lid every time you want to measure. This gets annoying fast.

This is incorrect. Our sight glass shields have laser etched volume markings every half and full gallon.

​

- Clad bottom is useless other than those looking to do induction. People talk about even heat distribution but that's only relevant if you you're making something like thick spaghetti sauce. For beer brewing (other than induction) all it does is add weight and cost with zero benefit. Wort is not very thick and won’t scorch as the thin nature keeps it moving through natural convection. End result is a heavy kettle, harder to move around. Clad bottoms to avoid scorching make sense when heating thicker liquids like spaghetti sauce that do not move around naturally. Blichmann does not have a clad bottom for this reason.

We used to think this as well until we realized the following:

1. Many brewers use induction burners to brew with. This is especially popular in northern states during the winter. A single layer kettle will not work with induction.
2. On the larger (20gal+) kettles it is beneficial as they have a diameter up to 2 feet. When a 6" wide burner is placed underneath a large kettle like this all the heat is focus on the center. The tri-clad bottom helps distribute that heat out to the outer edges of the kettle increasing heating time and efficiency of gas burners.
3. The single layer kettles tend to be concave as the bottoms are stamped. This can be exaggerated after gas fired heating cycles. As you can see with our older style v2 kettles they don't sit 100% flat and can rock on a stove or burner.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjKsZRc5N04[/ame]

- 5/8" pick up tube is non-standard sizing. Limits the types of hop filters you can use. Having the dip tube a slightly larger 5/8” won’t help with flow when there’s anywhere between 12-50 feet of ½” tubing or HERMS coil after it.

Our kettles use 1/2"npt fittings which are all standard. The Hop Stopper that Kal sells will screw directly into the ports we weld on.

We agree that for a pump driven system you won't see a huge benefit as there will be other restrictions down the line. However many brewers can't afford a $150 pump and use gravity. We've found the 5/8" tube flows up to 4x faster than the 1/2" size of the Blichmann and SS Brew Tech kettles.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASMKueFxrag[/ame]

You need a wrench to move it too (referring to pick up tube). On the Blichmann you just pull it out by hand.

This is also false. Our 1/2"npt x 5/8" fitting simply hand tightens into the kettle and the pick up tube pushes into that fitting; no tools required.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOjiZzF9uQw[/ame]

- The false bottom has more protrusions on the top than the Blichmann. This makes it harder to stir when mashing in as you’re hitting the stuff on the bottom. Blichmann only has the small dip tube that sits close to the side wall near the ball valve, and nothing else. Pictures: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/kettles-overview?page=6

Our false bottom does not have any protrusions. Our pick up tube is very low profile (about 1.5", see below). We choose to have the pick up tube draw from the center to promote a good flow through the grain bed and reduce the chance of channeling towards the side walls.

​

- Their ball valve however sticks out much farther than the Blichmann kettles given the welded fitting and nipple that you use. On my brewery design the HLT and MLT have a Tee and QD after the valve so using your kettles would result in parts that stick out even farther (2”?) making them more difficult to move around/clean/etc. The added weight doesn't help either. You may be able to reduce some of the length by using a close nipple instead of the one in the pictures that Spike Brewing's been showing. (that’s what I recommend on my HLT and MLT between the ball valve and Tee – pictures here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/mash-lauter-tun?page=4 ).

This isn't something we hear as a complaint. However it might be an issue for some people I guess. Attached is how far the valves stick out for reference.

​

Full disclosure: The owner of Spike Brewing wanted to send me kettles for free and offered to have me feature them on my website in return for a commission on each unit I helped sell. I would have made more money off these than recommending Blichmann but at the end of the day I saw no advantages at all when used on my 3 kettle single tier design so I said no. I'm not going to lie/make up stuff to make a few extra bucks.

itsnotrequired also got a 2" TC fitting welded on for use with a heating element. We get a lot of questions regarding these so I wanted to include an install video as well. It's by far the easiest and safest way to install a heating element!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr68n10_Ex0[/ame]

I spoke with Ben and he did say we reached out to Kal. We offered to make a custom HERMS system based of his design. For the above reason he declined. The commission was not discussed as we do not offer any affiliate selling. We did however offer to make up the difference in monies lost from his normal Blichmann affiliate sales.

In Kal's defense it would be a heck of an undertaking to completely redo his site and design with different kettles. His system is meant more for the DIY type person. Switching to our kettles would lose revenue on all the additional pieces, punches, element housings, etc so we totally understand!

-Tim

 

[SpikeBrewing]

.

Sick setup and build. Glad we stumbled across this thread!

 

[ccfoo242]

This is incorrect. Our sight glass shields have laser etched volume markings every half and full gallon.

​

I like this better than the blichmann because the notches are visible from the front. I have to look at my G2 from the side to see the level.

 

[itsnotrequired]

I like this better than the blichmann because the notches are visible from the front. I have to look at my G2 from the side to see the level.

the shield rotates so you can look at it from whatever angle you like.