I hate #!@#&*( Contractors

[DrunkleJon]

2. Hire 1 general contractor. Let them collect bids from their subcontractors and give you a firm price. Do not do a cost + agreement. If they insist on a cost + agreement, move on to a new general contractor.
3. The general contractor should be responsible for making sure the subs come to the site, not you. They are also responsible for keeping the job on schedule, not you.
4. Never pay upfront, unless materials have delivered. Contractors have credit, lines of credit, and often payment terms with their suppliers. There should never be a time you have to give a contractor money and trust that they are going to go out and spend it on material.

All of this will probably lead to getting a final price that is more expensive than subbing it out all yourself, but you'll have a finished project in a reasonable amount of time, without all the headaches. Anyone who tells you the above advice doesn't apply to residential construction doesn't know what they are talking about.

#2) I used to work for a commerical GC, hard bid will definitely save you from contract price creep. Though contractors hate hard bidding jobs.
#3/4) YES! Good God Yes!

And a higher price is worth it when the job gets done on time and budget.

BTW - how does a roofer forget a roof jack and leave it on a roof? This is still bugging me.

Its a donation to you for him being a d*ck and jerking you around

Well, I've officially been screwed over by my flooring guy. He was supposed to refinish my hardwoods on Friday. He says there was a death in the family. He's going out of town, and has no idea when he'll be returning. He won't give me an estimate of when he can do the work. He's given me so many excuses so far, I don't believe a word of it. He'd already canceled several times. I told him that this weekend had to happen because I'm moving in on the 21st. We held off moving, because we wanted to get these floors finished prior to moving in. I've been chasing this guy for 2 months.

I have to move in this weekend. None of the floors are done. I have put all my furniture somewhere until I can get another guy in to do the work. The house has to be empty. I'll probably end up renting a few pods. Looks like I'll be sleeping on a mattress on the floor for a month or so.

I found another guy, but he can't do the job until the end of September. He's a younger guy with his own business. He only restores floors and woodwork in old homes. He seems to know what he's talking about. He knew wood species, and construction specifics about the house based on it's age.

I got a kick out of talking to him. His first words were "I want to let you know that I'm not a ********* contractor". Apparently he used to work for a guy who would line up work for the month, knowing he couldn't do it. The guy needed to make x dollars per month. His goal was making x dollars in the fewest number of days. He'd work until he hit that number, then he'd just stop. Anyone still in the queue got screwed over. The whole process would start over the next month. Since there were always new calls, he always had work. If he got stuck, he'd call the people he screwed over, apologize, and try to talk them into letting him do the work.

He also told me a story about his own home. He hired a roofer who showed up, tore the old roof off, and left for 3 days - no tarp. There was a huge rainstorm and his ceiling caved on. Real nice!

Ask for your money back.

And early in this thread you asked about why some bids were so much higher than others. The really high bids are what they throw out when they have more work than they need. If they are fully committed and throw out a balls to the wall ridiculous bid and someone agrees to pay it, sure. Otherwise its not them turning you down.
I am sorry you have been having such a fun time of it all.

 

[b-boy]

Friggin' guy showed up, put 1 section of gutter up, slapped some shingles on the bay windows, slopped some caulk around my chimney and left. He was probably there for an hour.

He's still not done. The bay windows look like crap. The shingles covering the hip rafters are flapping in the breeze. I can see the exposed nails from the ground. There is another section of gutter missing, and still no downspouts. I can guarantee my roof still leaks around the flashing.

Oh - and there's a roof jack in the middle of my roof. Looks like someone forgot it.

I'm guessing this will buy him another week, while I continue to chase him to finish the job.

Wow - can I pick em, or what?

Yup - I called it. My gutters and roof are still not done. It's been 3-weeks now. Tracked the roofer down yesterday. Claims he can't finish the gutters because he is out of gutter end-caps. They are on back order. I reminded him that this was the same excuse he gave me 3 weeks ago, and that I find it hard to believe he can't get 1 gutter end cap in 3 weeks. He got a little porky with me. He still won't give me a date though.

 

[DrunkleJon]

No gutter endcaps? I would take a drive down to home depot or Lowes and buy him a few. Excuses, excuses...

 

[Kharnynb]

yeah, All the contractors around here know that I am on first name basis with the teachers and examiners and will have their grades and work evaluations at hand.

If someone screws me over, they can explain to the city architect why they should be allowed to keep their license.

 

[Grannyknot]

yeah, All the contractors around here know that I am on first name basis with the teachers and examiners and will have their grades and work evaluations at hand.

If someone screws me over, they can explain to the city architect why they should be allowed to keep their license.

Interesting to hear that Finland doesn't employ the good ole boy network. It is working so well for us here in the US.

*end sarcasm*

Honestly, construction, contracting, & the building industry in the united states is completely screwed up. It has the most F-ed up laws of any industry in my opinion. On the large scale commercial side of things, you have the exact opposite of the home construction and remodeling side of the business. On large commercial projects (& especially govt) owners can get away with highway robbery. Liquidated damages for projects that fell behind at no fault of any of the contractors or subs, demands to meet specifications that just cant be met, endless & needless paper trails for anything you can think of, ridiculously long payment terms (90 days is pretty common), the list goes on and on. The issue is that it costs so much money (& time) to fight for your rights that most people don't do it, which has lead to a generally accepted practice of the owner taking advantage of the GCs & Subs because they know they can't or won't fight it. Subcontractors have it the worst, because when the poop starts rolling downhill, the GCs just pass it on down, and the small subs are always at the bottom with nobody but their own employees to pass it on to.

The government wants to create jobs, so they pump all sorts of money into infrastructure & building projects, but refuse to address the reasons why commercial subcontractors keep going out of business and creating more unemployment.

 

[Kharnynb]

Helsinki or another big town is different, there you see a lot of sketchy contractors, often with estonian labour, who will take the piss with you if you let them..

Over here, you screw people over, you won't be in business for long, the gossip network will kill you off faster than you can imagine...

 

[b-boy]

Still waiting for my roofer to show up. It's almost 4 weeks now and the gutters are still 1/2 done and the roof jack is still on the roof. Looks like it might be small claims court time.

I just left him a voicemail. I gave him until EOD tomorrow, or I'm calling my lawyer. We'll see if that does anything. I'm guessing not.

Any advice? I took pictures. I will get an estimate to complete the job and make any repairs to the roof that are not correct. Anything else?

 

[kombat]

On a related note, does anybody watch "Catch a Contractor," on Spike? Love that show.

I can't believe how unprofessional some of those guys are.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I always liked Holmes on Homes. The crap(work) some contractors pull is amazing.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I always liked Holmes on Homes. The crap(work) some contractors pull is amazing.

I liked it more for;

"Because the show is a television series, costs for the homeowners, who are likely to be strapped for cash due to the previous contractors' mistakes and/or frauds, are kept to a minimum (10% to 20% of the cost of repair). Some contractors hired on the show have even donated time, materials, and labor to help homeowners in need. The remainder of the work is funded by the TV production company (and indirectly, through the Canadian government, by tax credits), but in some cases, Mike Holmes personally contributes funds towards the repairs."

 

[kombat]

My wife and I love Mike Holmes. We occasionally use his catchphrases in our household.

"Sweetie, can you get me the packet of paprika from the cupboard?"

"There's a bunch of pasta and other spices in the way. F--- it, it's all coming down!"

 

[Punity]

Feel sorry for you plight, luckily my FIL is my contractor on most jobs, I cant believe that people in business conduct themselves that way after watching my FIL deal with customers over the years and sometimes bending over backwards to make them happy when they are dissatisfied and even referring them to other people who might do the job better then he can. Id be following those contractors of yours all over the town until they did their damn job.

Hope it works out for you man and you can always return that jack of his through his windshield, he might have forgotten he left it there and would appreciate you bringing it back.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

In the future you could likely call the local building inspector instead of just the BBB. I know many people skirt permit requirements, but they would know the guys that actually get jobs done and inspected soon after pulling the permits. They'd also be in daily contact with them to know who actually works and who just tries to collect a check.
When I had my driveway concrete poured the first 2 guys wanted 50% down. The 3rd guy looked at me when I asked about a down payment. "I've got credit all over town. You pay me when you're happy." Needless to say, when their own money is on the line they get the job done quick and correct so they can get the check. They should easily be able to float $5k for a week between material delivery and installation.
For any larger project find a GC. It will cost more in construction costs, but save you in Xanax and blood pressure meds and hotel stays when your house is unlivable.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

In the future you could likely call the local building inspector instead of just the BBB.

I would not expect a response to this.

1.) Most are far too busy making the inspections.
2.) I would expect there to be a policy against making any recommendations. Both from a potential liability standpoint (well you told us to use them) and/or from a parity standpoint.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

I would not expect a response to this.

1.) Most are far too busy making the inspections.
2.) I would expect there to be a policy against making any recommendations. Both from a potential liability standpoint (well you told us to use them) and/or from a parity standpoint.

I could see that. I guess it depends on the size of the city. We're only around 14k and he schedules inspections for mornings and is in the office every afternoon reviewing submittals and handling permits. They love to see me walk in with a set of actual prints (instead of a stack of random scratch paper) so they might be a little more forthcoming with me.

 

[Grannyknot]

I would personally stay as far away from the local building inspector as possible.

 

[b-boy]

I would personally stay as far away from the local building inspector as possible.

I feel the same way. I don't like them in my house. They like to poke around while they are there. Some things are best left un-poked.

 

[b-boy]

In the future you could likely call the local building inspector instead of just the BBB. I know many people skirt permit requirements, but they would know the guys that actually get jobs done and inspected soon after pulling the permits. They'd also be in daily contact with them to know who actually works and who just tries to collect a check.

I'm pretty sure this guy didn't get a permit for the work he did.

In fact, someone pulled up to my house in a pickup while he was working. The roofer went nuts. Ran up to the guy apologizing about how he didn't know he needed a permit, and that he'd get one first thing Monday morning.

The guy who stopped looked a little confused. He wasn't even an inspector. He was a neighbor who just wanted to introduce himself. It was pretty funny to watch.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm pretty sure this guy didn't get a permit for the work he did.

In fact, someone pulled up to my house in a pickup while he was working. The roofer went nuts. Ran up to the guy apologizing about how he didn't know he needed a permit, and that he'd get one first thing Monday morning.

The guy who stopped looked a little confused. He wasn't even an inspector. He was a neighbor who just wanted to introduce himself. It was pretty funny to watch.

Ha. Reminds me of my early days working for some small GC's. Inspector pulls onto the jobsite, you hear a faint call of "La Migra" and suddenly lots of contractors are hurridly off to lunch or something.

 

[Brewenstein]

Soooo....how's it going?

 

[watermelon83]

1.) Never pay a contractor up front. You can break off a chunk when materials deliver, but never pay up front.
2.) Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Call their cell, office, and even their grandmother if you can find her.
3.) For the ones who do have your money, look into the lien process.
4.) Whatever the bid, assume it will take twice as long and cost 3 times as much. Write early completion bonuses into contracts or liquidated damages for not meeting an agreed upon deadline.

#1 = win never pay a contractor for anything besides materials(with a receipt) until job completion. Even then hold back 5% for a few weeks.

 

[b-boy]

Soooo....how's it going?

No change. It's been 5 weeks. My roof is still not finished, my gutters still stop half way, and there is still a large roof jack on my roof.

I haven't heard from the roofer in several weeks. I'm trying to locate someone else to do the work, then I'm headed to small claims court.

I did file a formal BBB complaint, left a few reviews on some contractor websites, and blasted the guy on FaceBook.

I have an appointment to get my hardwood floors redone in 2 weeks. The last guy bailed on me. Unfortunately, I had to move into the house last week. I wanted to get the work done prior to that. In order to re-finish the floors, I now have to empty the entire house again.

I'm also re-doing the kitchen. I'm doing that myself. I ordered all my cabinets. They arrive on September 24th. If this new flooring guy bails on me, I'm totally screwed. I will have all my stuff plus 30-40 boxes of new stuff, plus unfinished floors. It will be a nightmare.

So, yeah - things are about the same.

 

[b-boy]

Hallelujah! I finally have some progress.

I hired a new flooring guy. He's pretty young, but he seems to really like refinishing wood. He only does old house restorations. He showed up Saturday. So far his work looks excellent. He sanded all my floors, patched up some rough areas, and even got the thinset off my tiled-over foyer. Today he's staining and adding the first coat of poly. I'm living in a hotel room until Thursday so everything can cure properly before I move all the furniture back in place.

I'm still stuck with my incomplete roof/gutter job. I sent a registered letter of demand to the guy that stiffed me. He never responded, but I know he signed for the letter. I found another guy to complete the gutters, but he's booked 10 weeks out. As long as I get the work done before the snow flies, I'll be OK. Now I have to take the roofer to court. Looks like the guy's been having a bad month. There have been 2 more BBB postings since August.

I started using Angie's List to screen some of these guys. It was $6.99 for a year. So far it's worked out. It's a lot easier to tell who the better contractors are. They do conflict resolution as well. I opened a case with them concerning my roofer.

 

[Rhumbline]

Thanks a lot for keeping us updated. I'm sorry that you had to go through this but there's something for all of us to learn.

And thanks for the info on Angie's list. I'd wondered if it was a good resource.

 

[Hoppity]

Glad to hear things are looking up. Eventually it can't be all bad news...things even out over time.

 

[SharonaZamboni]

I joined Angie's List, and really only looked at reviews, etc. That was good, but AL kept calling me to ask whether I'd used companies, and to review them. For that reason, I stopped looking. They never stopped calling until my subscription ran out.

 

[b-boy]

I joined Angie's List, and really only looked at reviews, etc. That was good, but AL kept calling me to ask whether I'd used companies, and to review them. For that reason, I stopped looking. They never stopped calling until my subscription ran out.

I have been getting emails from them. Mostly junk and daily deals, but so far nothing too annoying.

 

[b-boy]

In case anyone cares, I'm just posting a update to my contractor woes. It makes me feel better. Kind of like therapy. My yearly HBT membership fee is a hell of a lot cheaper than a real therapist. (Next week I'm going to post about some weird dreams I've been having involving lime Jello, Big Bird, and Flo from those Progressive commercials on TV. )

I finally got my roof and gutters fixed by another contractor. It cost me $600 to finish the job. I'm going to court with the first roofer in a few weeks. The BBB closed out my complaint and basically said the guy was a dirt bag (in somewhat nicer words). He has 9 unresolved complaints and an F rating. He's obviously a wonderful human being. He ignored my Angie's List complaint, so they black-listed him. At this point I have no trouble saying the guy's name. His company is Tony's Independent Contracting in Buffalo NY. Run away if this guy ever shows up at your home.

My floors got finished - sort of. The sanding/staining part went really well. The guys I hired did a nice job. They were supposed to come back and put down some new hardwood a few weeks back, but they disappeared. Luckily it didn't cost me anything. I gave up and just finished it myself.

My kitchen is moving along nicely (because I'm doing it myself). Countertops show up next week. After that I'm living the life. No more contractors on the horizon - Yippee!

 

[brettwasbtd]

Run away if this guy ever shows up at your home.

But we know that will never happen LMFAO

Glad things are headed in the right direction

 

[westo2]

Getting closer I suppose. We're three months into renovations here (just up the road from you I think). So far - the contractors I've used have been good. I sent you my flooring guy's info. I've got an HVAC guy and a drywall guy who I can recommend highly.

 

[b-boy]

I'm in Pendleton now. Good luck with your work. I'm doing it all myself now. No more contractors in the house unless it's something I absolutely cannot do.

 

[MaxStout]

In case anyone cares, I'm just posting a update to my contractor woes. It makes me feel better. Kind of like therapy. My yearly HBT membership fee is a hell of a lot cheaper than a real therapist. (Next week I'm going to post about some weird dreams I've been having involving lime Jello, Big Bird, and Flo from those Progressive commercials on TV. )

I finally got my roof and gutters fixed by another contractor. It cost me $600 to finish the job. I'm going to court with the first roofer in a few weeks. The BBB closed out my complaint and basically said the guy was a dirt bag (in somewhat nicer words). He has 9 unresolved complaints and an F rating. He's obviously a wonderful human being. He ignored my Angie's List complaint, so they black-listed him. At this point I have no trouble saying the guy's name. His company is Tony's Independent Contracting in Buffalo NY. Run away if this guy ever shows up at your home.

My floors got finished - sort of. The sanding/staining part went really well. The guys I hired did a nice job. They were supposed to come back and put down some new hardwood a few weeks back, but they disappeared. Luckily it didn't cost me anything. I gave up and just finished it myself.

My kitchen is moving along nicely (because I'm doing it myself). Countertops show up next week. After that I'm living the life. No more contractors on the horizon - Yippee!

After your small claims action is adjudicated (and he's paid your claim), do a nice little write up of the guy on Ripoff Report. That site is awesome. The review will rocket to near the top of Google search results in a day or two. I did a review of a roofer a few years ago. When I Googled the company's name shortly after, the Ripoff Review was second--right below the contractor's website listing.

Don't get mad. Get even.

 

[b-boy]

After your small claims action is adjudicated (and he's paid your claim), do a nice little write up of the guy on Ripoff Report. That site is awesome. The review will rocket to near the top of Google search results in a day or two. I did a review of a roofer a few years ago. When I Googled the company's name shortly after, the Ripoff Review was second--right below the contractor's website listing.

Don't get mad. Get even.

Thanks. I've been busy spreading the word wherever I can. I'll win the case, but collecting the $$ will be a problem. I'm assuming I won't get paid. I'll probably have to put a lien on his home/business.

 

[DrunkleJon]

In case anyone cares, I'm just posting a update to my contractor woes. It makes me feel better. Kind of like therapy. My yearly HBT membership fee is a hell of a lot cheaper than a real therapist. (Next week I'm going to post about some weird dreams I've been having involving lime Jello, Big Bird, and Flo from those Progressive commercials on TV. )

I finally got my roof and gutters fixed by another contractor. It cost me $600 to finish the job. I'm going to court with the first roofer in a few weeks. The BBB closed out my complaint and basically said the guy was a dirt bag (in somewhat nicer words). He has 9 unresolved complaints and an F rating. He's obviously a wonderful human being. He ignored my Angie's List complaint, so they black-listed him. At this point I have no trouble saying the guy's name. His company is Tony's Independent Contracting in Buffalo NY. Run away if this guy ever shows up at your home.

My floors got finished - sort of. The sanding/staining part went really well. The guys I hired did a nice job. They were supposed to come back and put down some new hardwood a few weeks back, but they disappeared. Luckily it didn't cost me anything. I gave up and just finished it myself.

My kitchen is moving along nicely (because I'm doing it myself). Countertops show up next week. After that I'm living the life. No more contractors on the horizon - Yippee!

There is already a thread for that. I made it a while back but it has fun dream stuff in it. Here ya go
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508243

Glad that you finally got out of the mess.

 

[Hophunter]

Reviving but exactly the way I feel.

Had 2 companies bid an air sealing/blow in insulation for under 1000 sq ft of attic. Both initially quoted for fiberglass. I decided that cellulose would be better and emailed both for revised quotes. Only one got back to me. He was also more expensive by several hundred. Advised against cellulose but said they could do it.

Guys showed up on time but with fiberglass. I told them to do the prep but no insulating. Insulating rescheduled for next week b/c they never ordered the cellulose. Cut to the real problem. They finished prep work. I went up to check it out and found numerous penetrations that were not sealed. I mean obvious ones. Others were poorly done. Called the guys and they came back but asked for me to mark the problem areas. I did and even went up with them to point out the areas.

Even then, not done well upon further inspection. Before they left, they said if I found any other issues to mark them and they'd get them before they insulated. Wtf? Not my job. So I fired off a nice email to the owner with pics. I also fixed the remaining problems b/c fool me once...just glad they didn't insulate before I had a chance to check it out.

 

[MeatyPortion]

I've been fortunate that I've had good luck with contractors so far (knock on wood) and have a couple go-to companies. One of which didn't even bother to collect the 50% up front, he just said "it's okay, you can just send me a check when we're done." I think it was because it was a smaller job but I was still surprised. They did good work too. Angie's List and word of mouth from neighbors are the only ways I consider hiring someone. If they stop by my house and cold call me they can take a flying leap.

 

[b-boy]

I've been using Angie's list for referrals. I only contact A-rated contractors with 10+ reviews. Things have gone much smoother since then.

Although, I did call to get an estimate on getting some land graded. I called 2 contractors from Angie's List. Nobody showed up.

I don't chase them anymore. If they stiff me for an estimate, they're off the list permanently.

 

[MeatyPortion]

I've been using Angie's list for referrals. I only contact A-rated contractors with 10+ reviews. Things have gone much smoother since then.

Although, I did call to get an estimate on getting some land graded. I called 2 contractors from Angie's List. Nobody showed up.

I don't chase them anymore. If they stiff me for an estimate, they're off the list permanently.

I've had that happen a couple of times too, where I contact them after finding their listing on Angie's and then they never respond back. I guess they don't like money.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

As a contractor celebrating out 20th year in business I can say there is a large swing between good and bad contractors. Word of mouth is by far the best way.
I can say all contractors are not bad:

We still have out original license number
We've never had a single complaint against us
We've never taken a single penny for a deposit
We only get paid after a walkthrough with the homeowner and there happy with everything
The owner (me) is on every job start to finish
There are plenty of good contractors out there.You don't need to spend top dollar to get one and the way to cheap to be true usually ends In a nightmare

 

[Hophunter]

We've had good and bad. I have a great appreciation for the good. The ones we've previously used didn't do insulation. The company we chose had good reviews but I'm sure most people wouldn't check on the work before the insulation got blown on top.

Then again, it may have been a bad day for the guy who screwed up. Was a monday morning so perhaps he was hungover. Not an excuse but the owner seems pretty pissed so I would hope it wouldn't happen again.

I won't write a crappy review but I will steer friends away.