Home Brewer V.S. Snobby food Critic.....we won

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As a homebrewer I like it but as a person who worked in restaurants and was always taught that, within reason, the customer is always right, I dunno. But if the tone/demeanor was OK (hard for some people to pull off, easy for others) then maybe. Working in restaurants means you sometimes have to kiss some ass and with a food critic that may be even more true. But having said that, I'd prob have done what you did but in a poor tone.

RE: IPA's
When we make/drink IPAs they are strong and hoppy but I've read that the beer that was shipped to India was diluted upon arrival. So it wouldn't have been as strong or hoppy. These IPAs we make/drink; are they 'cask strength'? Is that 'historically correct'?
 
My buddies laughed at me when I ordered a Framboise. They told me men drink Gueze!

Mmmmm, Gueze. Getting that style in the US is next to impossible, and when you do find it it's way over priced. I did bring some back from Cantillon's Brewery though. :mug:
 
I totally dig those 6-pack carriers. I wonder why they don't use those in the US?

Also 6 Euros for a 4-pack of Chimay?
:mug:


The reason they don't use those type of 6 pack holders in the US is because they suck. I'm here in germany and most beer is bound together like that, and they are awful to try to carry. I can carry 4 american 6 packs, but only 2 of those.
 
Mmmmm, Gueze. Getting that style in the US is next to impossible, and when you do find it it's way over priced. I did bring some back from Cantillon's Brewery though. :mug:

Everywhere I have lived it was stupid easy to find at least half a dozen Gueze lambics.

Its possible that your statement applies to Pennsylvania because who in their right mind buys gueze by the case.
 
Nice one.
I have a similair story - my aunt has a freind whos husband my uncle can't stand (and he can't stand my uncle). But they tolerate each other, barely.
The guy is a real wine snob - sounds a bit like our freind in your story.
So my uncle gets a really bad wine and pours it into a bottle from a good wine and pours the guy a glass. The guy waxes on about how good it is and the aroma etc etc and then my uncle busts him :mug:
 
Mmmmm, Gueze. Getting that style in the US is next to impossible, and when you do find it it's way over priced. I did bring some back from Cantillon's Brewery though. :mug:

Gueze is all the rage right now--even Whole Foods carries a couple of them. There are only a few stores in the area that carry a decent selection of Cantillons, though. Even then getting some varieties is hard--Lou Pepe...awesome when you find it, though.
 
His meal was actually complimentary since he was a critic....keep in mind this was his suggestion that he gets a complimentary meal, and we let it slide. Maybe I am wrong but, don't real food critic's go into restaurants without them knowing, eat, leave, write it up later..? This guy doesn't even get paid to be a critic, he is a self proclaimed critic who writes a free article for a mag.

Yeah, not a real critic. Professional food critics try to hide the fact that they're critics, so they can see what the usual service is like. They certainly don't advertise it as a way to get comps.
 
Gueze is all the rage right now--even Whole Foods carries a couple of them. There are only a few stores in the area that carry a decent selection of Cantillons, though. Even then getting some varieties is hard--Lou Pepe...awesome when you find it, though.

I wish I got beer at Whole Foods here. :( I'll have to check it out next time I'm in Virginia.

I saw a 12 oz. Cantillon Gueze sell for $20 bucks here, no lie.
 
yea, sounds like this guy was just a ****** and obviously deserved his tongue lashing.

I wish I got beer at Whole Foods here. :( I'll have to check it out next time I'm in Virginia.

I saw a 12 oz. Cantillon Gueze sell for $20 bucks here, no lie.

I know it sounds steep, but think of it this way: That is one of the best beers in the world...for only $20! You can't say that about any wine. It might not be priced for an every day drinker, but its definitely worth it to pick up a bottle on occasion.
 
RE: IPA's
When we make/drink IPAs they are strong and hoppy but I've read that the beer that was shipped to India was diluted upon arrival. So it wouldn't have been as strong or hoppy. These IPAs we make/drink; are they 'cask strength'? Is that 'historically correct'?

I've never heard this and don't remember reading it in any of the contemporary brewing texts I've read though it may not have been included as it was implied knowledge. Generally though brewers would make two different IPAs; one was for export and shipped to India and the other was for domestic consumption. There would be slight variations in the gravity and hopping between the two (with the export being just slightly stronger and hopped more) but they were practically the same same beer. We're talking differences of 1.065 and 1.070 for gravity and 55 and 60 pounds per quarter of hops. Presumably the export version were hopped more to deal with the degradation they would face on the trip.
 
Last year while in Belgium, I had a Jupiler in a can, that I got from a vending machine on the side of the street, and then drank it in a little park with some lunch we had picked up. I was not too good, but I just could not pass up the experience of a beer vending machine and drinking in public. Later I had a proper draft Jupiler in a small bar. The bartender even did the level the foam off, like in the Stella commercials. This was much better. Not great, but better.

We saw lots of bars with Leffe on tap. We were only in one smallish town though. My wife's relatives had at home, Chimay, Mort Subite and Bush (not the American stuff)


What fine dining establishment in S.C. is byob?

And to some of the reply posters, I believe the OP when referring to the customer as a "food critic" was merely referring to his demeanor, not that he was an actual professional food critic. This is podunk nowhere. There are no official food critics in town, just lots of amatuers.......
 
Great story. It still always amazes me that people have this image of home brewers just being a bunch of drunks making cheap swill.
 
My approach is far from the desire to flex my beer knowledge muscles. Instead it is to spread the love of beer to people who are interested.

That's what you claim, but your original story says otherwise.

"Surely then you know how India Pale Ales got the name then right?" He and his wife gave their normally snobby look and said of course!" "Well then maybe you should tell me, I said?"

Sorry, but that's just being a complete and total jackass. I only see flexing of beer knowledge muscles here on your part.

I personally think questioning him about the Belgians was a legitimate inquiry to further your knowledge of the subject. That he didn't know why the beer wasn't regarded highly there doesn't make his assertion wrong. He gave you an interesting tidbit of information that you are now following up on.

I was not privy to the entire conversation so maybe what actually happened isn't how I am interpreting it. But it sounds to me like your feelings were hurt over an assertion that may or may not be true and had no bearing on how the beer tasted or paired with the dish, and you lashed out over it by trying to one-up the guy at every opportunity.
 
Great story. It still always amazes me that people have this image of home brewers just being a bunch of drunks making cheap swill.

You know? A friend of mine tried one of my beers for the first time and said "Dude! This tastes like beer!". No ****! Did you expect pumpkin pie? People expect homebrew to be bad.
 
I find it entertaining when people who disagree with the OP's approach of punking out the jackass food critic fail to follow their own advice about ignoring people whose demeanor they dislike. :ban:

Isn't there a famous saying about "glass houses" that I've heard before? :)
 
I'm not opposed to grounding somebody every once in a while. I think the OP did it sufficiently and as politely as you can with the Belgian thing. Hell, he did the guy a favor, every one needs to eat some crow now and then, keeps you honest and humble. Maybe a little too far with the IPA thing...

I served some guy a beer at a party of mine who claimed to be a German beer enthusiast because he went to Germany once. As he was sipping the Ayinger Celebrator I poured him, he goes on to say that "it's ok, just not as good as the beer brewed in Germany." He watched me take the goat off the bottle neck and pour it for him. Didn't even recognize the beer. I just nodded my head and walked away. I went easy on him.

I guess for me it comes down to not appreciating people who assume they are more knowledgeable about a subject than everyone else in the room.
 
Not pretending to be an expert here, but I lived with several different families in BE and was exposed to individuals from all across the board: high school students sneaking off to get drunk, college partiers, classy family dinners, holidays, up to high class events.

The Belgians I knew would drink their share of fizzy yellow beer, but when it came time for beer knowledge....man did they know their stuff. Most of the fancy beers there (that are even more fancy for us here) have very specific glassware and pouring techniques, which all households I lived in had. They really went all out when it came to beer.

Maybe some breweries in Belgium are looked at the same way we view BMC here. I definitely am curious to learn this as well.

Not really, as others have said since your post, Jupiler, Maes, and Stella Artois as the mass marketed, big "name" beers. The Belgians (in my experience) that also enjoy good beer have a respect for these beers in their place- when out doing physical things, they'll have one. When they want a beer "for the road" they'll have one. When they've just finished excercise, they'll have one. When university students want to get hammered, they'll have 15.

also I've heard that Heineken is hardly sold in the Netherlands and is made pretty much only for export.

(I dont want to pretend to be a know it all, cause I'm really not, but in my experience) it is sold in the Netherlands, and is quite popular, especially in the cities in the same a fore mentioned ways the Belgians enjoy their lagers.

Jupiler is the top selling beer in Belgium, by far. Not sure what beer snobs like, availability of craft beers there is more regional than here. Jupiler is a international mass market lager or whatever you want to call it. Stella isn't that popular in Belgium but is in the UK and in the US obviously.

Agreed, Maes and Jupiler are HUGE with Stella Artois taking up the rear with a performance akin to Miller (popular but not top of the market.)

I was in Brussels last year and really there was no single beer that was preferred by the locals. Jupiler was here and there and the "big" Belgian beers (Hoegaarden, Chimay, Duvel, Leffe and Delirium Tremens) were out in full force too. Here's a picture I took at a gas station in Belgium:

4938_523237855628_64700226_31121140.jpg


Also, 4 pack of Chimay for 6 Euros..... I'm living in the wrong country.

From what I find the Belgians enjoy all types of beer, with no particular preference to one. They drink each one in its own separate situation, meal pairings, apperatif, after dinner, etc.

Also, the sangria is usually a Euro fifty or two euro's for a bottle, kids buy it to get drunk but usually end up getting sick because its so sweet before they get drunk.

In my experience in Beligum it seems like most beer connoisseurs really liked their local beer in the locality I was in, so saying "Belgians like X beer" is pretty stupid.

Agreed on the first part. In my experience they all support local as much as possible. But they also enjoy the trappist or rarer brews, in their time and place.

When I lived in Belgium the most popular beers from daily consumption are Jupiler and Leffe. Jupiler was even on tap at McDonalds in the Grand Place in Mons. For fancy dinners my girlfriend would buy St. Feuillien Blond, which she considered to be the best Belgian Beer, but she was French so I am not sure it that counts. I will confess that only during the beer festival did I see people drinking the really unique beers. On a daily basis it was Jupiler. My buddies laughed at me when I ordered a Framboise. They told me men drink Gueze!

Seriously? What do the French know about beer? :D Having a beer at McD's was pretty awesome though, huh? Did you ever get frites at night at the place up the street? (the name escapes me) Supposedly they were the second best in the country.
All festival's I attended were college parties, so those dont count, but in family homes they would often pair a beer with a meal.
 
Oh, and as to how OP handled the situation? I think you did just fine. Some people are **** heads cause they think they know it all, and need to be put in their place.
 
PWNED!! :rockin:

I'm wondering if the "what Belgians think of their own beer" is similar to what Australians think of Fosters.
I remember chatting with a guy in my World of Warcraft guild whose wife is an Aussie (and they're planning a move there soon) who told me that Fosters "isn't just that popular" (respected) in Australia.

I spent a week or so in Freemantle, Western Australia while in the Marine Corps. Me and a buddy walked in to a liquor store and grabbed some Foster's. The owner of the store stopped us and said " Fosters? That's piss beer Yanks. Why do you think we send it all to your country?" We ended up drinking a lot of local brew at the many brew pubs and a bunch of Dogbolter from Matilda Bay Brewery in Freo.
 
That's what you claim, but your original story says otherwise.



Sorry, but that's just being a complete and total jackass. I only see flexing of beer knowledge muscles here on your part.

I personally think questioning him about the Belgians was a legitimate inquiry to further your knowledge of the subject. That he didn't know why the beer wasn't regarded highly there doesn't make his assertion wrong. He gave you an interesting tidbit of information that you are now following up on.

I was not privy to the entire conversation so maybe what actually happened isn't how I am interpreting it. But it sounds to me like your feelings were hurt over an assertion that may or may not be true and had no bearing on how the beer tasted or paired with the dish, and you lashed out over it by trying to one-up the guy at every opportunity.

+1 total jackass, the customer is never a jackass, you think that and show it, you're in the wrong business.
You can think he's a jackass but you tried and succeeded at beating him at his own game, cept, you lost.

I'd have fired your ass.
 
+1 total jackass, the customer is never a jackass, you think that and show it, you're in the wrong business.
You can think he's a jackass but you tried and succeeded at beating him at his own game, cept, you lost.

I'd have fired your ass.

Except if you had read the thread, the food critic was enjoying a complimentary meal. He was not a customer. I've worked my fair share in customer oriented business and the customers that account for 90% of my headaches only give me 15% of my business. I ditch bad customers as soon as I can.
 
Except if you had read the thread, the food critic was enjoying a complimentary meal. He was not a customer. I've worked my fair share in customer oriented business and the customers that account for 90% of my headaches only give me 15% of my business. I ditch bad customers as soon as I can.


Customer is customer, that's a crappy attitude to have to be honest.
 
I hate getting in beer conversations because I always end up saying stuff which is over people's heads and I'm sure I sound like a jackass.

I especially hate the "ohh you homebrew, how exactly do you make beer?" Then you're stuck giving a filibuster to someone who was just being polite.
 
I hate getting in beer conversations because I always end up saying stuff which is over people's heads and I'm sure I sound like a jackass.

I especially hate the "ohh you homebrew, how exactly do you make beer?" Then you're stuck giving a filibuster to someone who was just being polite.

So true (and well stated).
 
I hate getting in beer conversations because I always end up saying stuff which is over people's heads and I'm sure I sound like a jackass.

I especially hate the "ohh you homebrew, how exactly do you make beer?" Then you're stuck giving a filibuster to someone who was just being polite.

So true. My sister is mechanically/electronically/everything disabled and she once asked me to explain how I made beer. So after getting past mashing, enzymes and temperatures I'm thinking to myself, "Stop... what are you doing, she has no idea what you're talking about. She probably forgot everything you said already. You are full of suck!" but now it's on to the boil.....
 
I would really have to ask how many of you have actually worked the food service industry and know what it is actually like to deal with same said people night after night. Yes the customer is always right but at some point event the most level headed person will lose their cool once in a while.

And it is really hard to judge what is written on the internet and what happens in a conversation. You don't get all nuances and tones that are used in a conversation that happens.
 
I would really have to ask how many of you have actually worked the food service industry and know what it is actually like to deal with same said people night after night. Yes the customer is always right but at some point event the most level headed person will lose their cool once in a while.

And it is really hard to judge what is written on the internet and what happens in a conversation. You don't get all nuances and tones that are used in a conversation that happens.
I did for many years and you're right that there are some people that are just impossible to deal with. And with some, as soon as you give an inch they smell blood and want the world. But most aren't 'impossible' and the 'food critic' in the OP certainly never even came close to that. Even with the vast majority of 'difficult' customers the best thing to do is to just grin and bear it.

For me (a little bit of a temper, not too bad); the easiest way was to keep thinking; "You don't have what it takes to piss me off." Then no matter what they do they can't piss you off.
 
I would really have to ask how many of you have actually worked the food service industry and know what it is actually like to deal with same said people night after night. Yes the customer is always right but at some point event the most level headed person will lose their cool once in a while.

And it is really hard to judge what is written on the internet and what happens in a conversation. You don't get all nuances and tones that are used in a conversation that happens.
I did for several years and still work in the service industry.
 
I hate getting in beer conversations because I always end up saying stuff which is over people's heads and I'm sure I sound like a jackass.

I especially hate the "ohh you homebrew, how exactly do you make beer?" Then you're stuck giving a filibuster to someone who was just being polite.

My 5 cent answer:

"You steep grain to get out the sugar, you boil what you get from that, add hops, cool it down, add yeast and wait."

Anyone who wants to know more can ask. Anyone who was being polite gets a sentence. And really, I like talking about brewing so much that I don't always mind the glazed over eyes when I'm rambling. I do this to my girlfriend a lot.
 
you say you were nice to him the entire time? I know that i can talk crap to people with a smile on my face and though i think im being nice they can see through my bs. I've done the whole customer service thing and delt with alot of rude customers and tried to control myself but if i was in your shoes i would have done the same thing. Some people just need to be shut down every once in a while when they get to high and mighty.
 
A real food critic would not be asking for a free meal. I photograph food at restaurants 1-2 times a week for the paper I work for, and I've never taken a free meal even when the restauranteurs offer. It's just unprofessional.
 
I would really have to ask how many of you have actually worked the food service industry and know what it is actually like to deal with same said people night after night. Yes the customer is always right but at some point event the most level headed person will lose their cool once in a while.

And it is really hard to judge what is written on the internet and what happens in a conversation. You don't get all nuances and tones that are used in a conversation that happens.


15 years.....Bars, kitchen and serving......the OP said all we need to know, spent time trying to show up someone elses knowledge and acting the jackass, he said it all in the thread title...nuances my butt.


I never lost the cool like that with a customer and the difficult ones were the challenges to get a high tip off of, that was how I worked it.
 
If one chooses to express himself by exhibiting what he considers to be a high level of professionalism and maximize the extent to which he curries favor with the customer, regardless, that's fine. OP chose to express himself differently. Probably knew that if he pushed it too far there might be employment consequences, and heeded that risk. It appears that his willingness to sacrifice the customer's comfort to a bit of pride makes the service professionals uncomfortable. Too bad. YOU choose to live to your standards. Others aren't obligated to... even other service "professionals", so long as they are prepared to manage and live with the consequences of their actions. OP apparently was and is. And don't tell me that anyone unwilling to accept and live up to some higher standard of performance shouldn't be serving. He accepts the job, the customer, the challenges on HIS terms, and is free to deal with them as HE chooses, regardless of what choices you may make for yourself.
 
If one chooses to express himself by exhibiting what he considers to be a high level of professionalism and maximize the extent to which he curries favor with the customer, regardless, that's fine. OP chose to express himself differently. Probably knew that if he pushed it too far there might be employment consequences, and heeded that risk. It appears that his willingness to sacrifice the customer's comfort to a bit of pride makes the service professionals uncomfortable. Too bad. YOU choose to live to your standards. Others aren't obligated to... even other service "professionals", so long as they are prepared to manage and live with the consequences of their actions. OP apparently was and is. And don't tell me that anyone unwilling to accept and live up to some higher standard of performance shouldn't be serving. He accepts the job, the customer, the challenges on HIS terms, and is free to deal with them as HE chooses, regardless of what choices you may make for yourself.

Very good point. And a lot of the time it depends on where you go for your service and, thus, what you expect to receive. Here's a nice contrast:

A) SWMBO manages one of the nicer and busier restaurants downtown; the food is stellar and well thought out and there's a great beer selection. But I always hear of all the horrible, self-centered, uppity, WASP, Eurotrash, etc etc etc people she has to deal with... and she has to keep a smile on her face the whole time. I can think of one time in the three years she has worked there that they ever threw someone out.

B) Anybody ever been to a Dick's Last Resort? I believe they started in San Diego but there's one in Vegas now. I love this place!!! Essentially the hosts/servers/bar-tenders are either rude or treat you like an inconvenience to their day and the fun is being a jerk back. Food is basic but pretty good but the "service" is just awesome. Not for everybody (watch out for the fat guy who'll give girls dances for their birthdays) but if you have an open sense of humor you'll appreciate it.
 
I was in Brussels last year and really there was no single beer that was preferred by the locals. Jupiler was here and there and the "big" Belgian beers (Hoegaarden, Chimay, Duvel, Leffe and Delirium Tremens) were out in full force too. Here's a picture I took at a gas station in Belgium:

4938_523237855628_64700226_31121140.jpg


Also, 4 pack of Chimay for 6 Euros..... I'm living in the wrong country.

Things you don't see in the US: Chimay on the bottom shelf.
 
If one chooses to express himself by exhibiting what he considers to be a high level of professionalism and maximize the extent to which he curries favor with the customer, regardless, that's fine. OP chose to express himself differently. Probably knew that if he pushed it too far there might be employment consequences, and heeded that risk. It appears that his willingness to sacrifice the customer's comfort to a bit of pride makes the service professionals uncomfortable. Too bad. YOU choose to live to your standards. Others aren't obligated to... even other service "professionals", so long as they are prepared to manage and live with the consequences of their actions. OP apparently was and is. And don't tell me that anyone unwilling to accept and live up to some higher standard of performance shouldn't be serving. He accepts the job, the customer, the challenges on HIS terms, and is free to deal with them as HE chooses, regardless of what choices you may make for yourself.


OP chose to be an asshat, end of. If I expected a professional and got that crap I'd not be back again.
I appreciate that the brewer in you possibly thinks what he did was cool, it wasn't...anyway you dice it, when someone goes into his place for service they don't choose to listen to that crap, even if they are boorish, he want's to be an ass he should go to their place of work and pay them for the privilege, not the other way around.

I see you think it's about opinions......
 
...he want's to be an ass he should go to their place of work and pay them for the privilege, not the other way around.

Perhaps you missed the fact that the guy was a free-loader; he wasn't paying for his meal.

If I expected a professional and got that crap I'd not be back again.

Hmmm... non-paying, make-believe "food critic" fails to return to cadge another free meal?

Sounds like a win for the restaurant.
 

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