Help with Mash Recirculation

[DANNERx0]

@schiersteinbrewing: I'd like to make a part like this. I assume the end piece it just an off-the-shelf piece of copper tubing with some holes drilled in.

Where can I find a piece of copper tubing with a blunt end like that? What do you call that kind of tubing?

 

[VWBug5000]

Danner - That is a stub-out. You can find it at home depot or lowes pretty easily.

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

@schiersteinbrewing: I'd like to make a part like this. I assume the end piece it just an off-the-shelf piece of copper tubing with some holes drilled in.

Where can I find a piece of copper tubing with a blunt end like that? What do you call that kind of tubing?

You should be able to find them at a hardware store. It is a PEX wall stub out.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBit...Barb-Stub-Out-90-Degree-Elbow-23070/202300097

I just cut the elbow part off.

 

[nutty_gnome]

I run something very similar but I chose to use slots cut using a dremel cut-off wheel (even a hacksaw could do it). It works pretty well without having to drill all those fiddly holes. I'll post a pic later.

 

[markgalli]

I don't use the COFI system, but I had the same recirculation problem with just a bag in the basket. I solved it by installing a "false bottom" in the basket, hanging a round barbeque grill about an inch above the bottom of the basket. Although I generally recirculate at a moderate flow, I can run this at full flow and not worry about overflow. The problem is that the bags are made to drain quickly, but the basket simply doesn't have enough holes to allow that to happen.

As I said, this doesn't help people with a COFI system, but for the rest of us, I'd highly recommend it.

Actually, I'm modified my system: I attached another grill to the the first grill, to create cross hatching and strengthen it. I can show pictures if anyone is interested.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I may be way off base with this idea but had to throw it out here.

I was directed to this thread by "newnick", a member on this site. I'm in the final stages of making my E-kettle and doing my first BIAB. I've have been asking questions about circulating also and he told me to read this thread. Now I only got to page 6 when the light turned on.

Last fall I installed a used wood boiler in our fifth wheel trailer to help heat it in the fall and early winter while we camp and bow hunt. The circulating pump I used for circulating the hot water through the lines to the coil in the trailer is just a little larger GPM then what everyone here is using. It's a 3 speed 1/25 HP with an output of 0-17 GPM.

What I read in the installation sheet worried me a bit but this is what I think could be the relationship between the directions and the problem many are having. Now I could be wrong but this is what it said and I learned from reading about this.

I copied and pasted this from the installation sheet.

3. Inlet Pressure Requirements
The amount of pressure required at the inlet of the pump is a function
of the temperature of the water as shown in Table 2B.

Table 2B – Inlet Pressure Requirements
Water (°F) 190, 165, 140
Required Inlet Pressure (ft.) 5, 4.5, 3
(psi) 2.2, 1.9, 1.3

In a pressurized system, the required inlet pressure is the
minimum allowable system pressure.

In a system open to the atmosphere, the required inlet
pressure is the minimum distance the pump must be
located below the lowest possible water level of the
water source (tank, pool, etc.).

Ok, now the system that everyone is using is the "Open" type. I know the pump size differs but the design and use is the same. When I read about and asked an engineer that designs boiler systems about this he said what happens is pump cavitation causing air pockets at the impeller/pump when there is insufficient head pressure at the pump.

I'm not sure of design people have in the location of the pump to the kettles but the pump will need to be below that low level line. Now I don't feel it needs to be the dimensions given but I thin there will be a required distance for the water capacities in our kettles.

Just throwing this out here. Maybe something to consider. I think when My pump comes I will pay attention to this.

Good luck everyone.

 

[TexasWine]

I may be way off base with this idea but had to throw it out here.

I was directed to this thread by "newnick", a member on this site. I'm in the final stages of making my E-kettle and doing my first BIAB. I've have been asking questions about circulating also and he told me to read this thread. Now I only got to page 6 when the light turned on.

Last fall I installed a used wood boiler in our fifth wheel trailer to help heat it in the fall and early winter while we camp and bow hunt. The circulating pump I used for circulating the hot water through the lines to the coil in the trailer is just a little larger GPM then what everyone here is using. It's a 3 speed 1/25 HP with an output of 0-17 GPM.

What I read in the installation sheet worried me a bit but this is what I think could be the relationship between the directions and the problem many are having. Now I could be wrong but this is what it said and I learned from reading about this.

I copied and pasted this from the installation sheet.

3. Inlet Pressure Requirements
The amount of pressure required at the inlet of the pump is a function
of the temperature of the water as shown in Table 2B.

Table 2B – Inlet Pressure Requirements
Water (°F) 190, 165, 140
Required Inlet Pressure (ft.) 5, 4.5, 3
(psi) 2.2, 1.9, 1.3

In a pressurized system, the required inlet pressure is the
minimum allowable system pressure.

In a system open to the atmosphere, the required inlet
pressure is the minimum distance the pump must be
located below the lowest possible water level of the
water source (tank, pool, etc.).

Ok, now the system that everyone is using is the "Open" type. I know the pump size differs but the design and use is the same. When I read about and asked an engineer that designs boiler systems about this he said what happens is pump cavitation causing air pockets at the impeller/pump when there is insufficient head pressure at the pump.

I'm not sure of design people have in the location of the pump to the kettles but the pump will need to be below that low level line. Now I don't feel it needs to be the dimensions given but I thin there will be a required distance for the water capacities in our kettles.

Just throwing this out here. Maybe something to consider. I think when My pump comes I will pay attention to this.

Good luck everyone.

Happy new year!

What you're describing there is called Net Positive Suction Head (NPSH). NPSHr is the amount of suction head required by a specific pump, and NPSHa is the amount of available suction head of the system you're pumping.

NPSHr is different for each and every pump design. It's impacted by the speed the pump rotates, the impeller geometry (for centrifugal pumps), and I'm sure a whole slew of other things I know nothing about.

NPSHa is a function of the vapor pressure of the fluid being pumped and other things like atmospheric pressure and the elevation between the fluid and the pump impeller centerline. The higher the temp, the higher the vapor pressure and the lower the NPSHa, which is exactly what those instructions you copied/pasted indicate.

Cavitation may cause pump damage if it is severe enough. It should sound kind of like you're pumping rocks because the vapor pockets that are formed in the pump suction are collapsing on the face of the impeller.

Now, with all that, I can say cavitation is not the source of my recirculation woes, and most likely is not the source of the problem for other folks either. The reason I know this is that my pump is still happily pumping away, the liquid level above my grain bed increases (sometimes to the point of overflowing the kettle), and the sight glass attached to the liquid level below the grain bed goes to almost nothing. It's a flow restriction issue. The wort simply isn't flowing thorough the grain bed and bag fast enough to replenish the pump suction.

I'm not saying cavitation isn't something you should be aware of and on the lookout for. It just isn't causing the recirculation issue.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Happy new year!

What you're describing there is called Net Positive Suction Head (NPSH). NPSHr is the amount of suction head required by a specific pump, and NPSHa is the amount of available suction head of the system you're pumping.

NPSHr is different for each and every pump design. It's impacted by the speed the pump rotates, the impeller geometry (for centrifugal pumps), and I'm sure a whole slew of other things I know nothing about.

NPSHa is a function of the vapor pressure of the fluid being pumped and other things like atmospheric pressure and the elevation between the fluid and the pump impeller centerline. The higher the temp, the higher the vapor pressure and the lower the NPSHa, which is exactly what those instructions you copied/pasted indicate.

Cavitation may cause pump damage if it is severe enough. It should sound kind of like you're pumping rocks because the vapor pockets that are formed in the pump suction are collapsing on the face of the impeller.

Now, with all that, I can say cavitation is not the source of my recirculation woes, and most likely is not the source of the problem for other folks either. The reason I know this is that my pump is still happily pumping away, the liquid level above my grain bed increases (sometimes to the point of overflowing the kettle), and the sight glass attached to the liquid level below the grain bed goes to almost nothing. It's a flow restriction issue. The wort simply isn't flowing thorough the grain bed and bag fast enough to replenish the pump suction.

I'm not saying cavitation isn't something you should be aware of and on the lookout for. It just isn't causing the recirculation issue.

Well I thought I might have solved the worlds problem with that idea. Guess as my wife would say, "That was a wasted breath".

Oh well I'll continue reading. Just a short time before I test out my new build. I'll have to see what happens with mine.

Good brewing.

 

[TexasWine]

Update for me. Just wrapped up my brew day. A dunkel. I loosened my mill to 0.040. I also let the mash rest for 10 minutes before turning on the pump. Success on all fronts.

89% brewhouse efficiency. Did a 60 minute rest at 142F, ramped up to 158F for 30 minutes. 30 minute boil. Good day.

Edit: rechecked my volumes, efficiency was actually 86%. But what's 3% between friends?

 

[newnick]

Good deal.

 

[wilserbrewer]

0.040 mill set and 89%...who'd a thought

Maybe crushing to dust ain't where it's at but just moving the liquor over the grist.

Always liked stirring the mash. Seems intuitive to a good washin of the grain.

Interesting data for sure.

 

[pennengr]

I ran my first water batch test this afternoon using the Loc-Line Sparge Ring in a COFI configuration. Everything looks like it will work well. I'll post results in a few weeks when I do my next brew (the parts came in just after I finished my first BIAB RIMS batch, on which I got about 89% mash efficiency). The first batch was done using a 240V RIMS Rocket, Brau Supply controller, and a standard Loc-Line feed to the top of the mash).

Sorry the images are coming in sideways - couldn't figure out how to fix...

 

[krock21]

I just finished my fourth batch with my eBIAB system yesterday. I am using a 15 gallon Spike kettle v2, a NorCal false bottom, a bag from brewinabag.com, a chugger pump, and a bunch of little locline nozzles for the recirculation return. My first batch went perfectly. It was a low ABV dark mild, so the grain bill was quite low and a brown sugar addition made it even lower. Every other brew have had 12+ pounds of grain and they have all had recirculation issues. After my 2nd batch I purchased a ball valve to put on the output of my pump because the butterfly valve was not able to reduce the flow like I wanted it to. The ball valve works much better but I'm having to reduce the flow to pretty much a trickle to avoid cavitation.

After the first couple of brews with this issue I found this thread and with my fourth brew I opened up my grain mill to .049" in hope that it would reduce the problem. Yesterday I brewed a belgian quad with a grain bill of 19 pounds and while it wasn't completely stuck I again had to reduce the flow to a trickle.

If anyone could offer some tips on troubleshooting this problem I'd appreciate it. The first thing that comes to mind would be increasing the hole size of my false bottom.

But if there are options I can try out before modifying it(I'd like to possibly use it without a bag in the future) then I would love to hear them.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

I just finished my fourth batch with my eBIAB system yesterday. I am using a 15 gallon Spike kettle v2, a NorCal false bottom, a bag from brewinabag.com, a chugger pump, and a bunch of little locline nozzles for the recirculation return. My first batch went perfectly. It was a low ABV dark mild, so the grain bill was quite low and a brown sugar addition made it even lower. Every other brew have had 12+ pounds of grain and they have all had recirculation issues. After my 2nd batch I purchased a ball valve to put on the output of my pump because the butterfly valve was not able to reduce the flow like I wanted it to. The ball valve works much better but I'm having to reduce the flow to pretty much a trickle to avoid cavitation.



After the first couple of brews with this issue I found this thread and with my fourth brew I opened up my grain mill to .049" in hope that it would reduce the problem. Yesterday I brewed a belgian quad with a grain bill of 19 pounds and while it wasn't completely stuck I again had to reduce the flow to a trickle.



If anyone could offer some tips on troubleshooting this problem I'd appreciate it. The first thing that comes to mind would be increasing the hole size of my false bottom.



But if there are options I can try out before modifying it(I'd like to possibly use it without a bag in the future) then I would love to hear them.



Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Do you by chance have a pick up tube in your kettle?

 

[krock21]

Do you by chance have a pick up tube in your kettle?

Yes, I am using one from NorCal. http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.c...1.5-Inch-Tri-Clover-Jaybird-False-Bottom.html

 

[hafmpty]

...if there are options I can try out before modifying it(I'd like to possibly use it without a bag in the future) then I would love to hear them.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Here's something to try to see where the issue might be:

FIRST
Keep everything the same (crush/recipe (or at least amount of grain)/etc.) except don't use the bag next time. Use your kettle like a traditional mash tun with the false bottom in place. When your mash is finished, drain into a bucket, dump your grain, give your pot a quick rinse and then proceed to your boil.

If you can recirculate at a quicker pace, then the bag is causing part/all of the restriction. If the recirculation rate is nearly the same, forcing you to trickle, then my suspicion is that the small ID diptube could be the culprit.

When I was doing traditional 3V brewing I had 3/4" sanitary fittings throughout my rig. This meant 5/8" ID piping & fittings that let wort recirculate like a BEAST. I had the option of opening the flow up 100% but I didn't always need/want to do that. But I only had that option because the piping was big enough to facilitate that.

But it wasn't always that way. At first I had the same 1/2" OD sanitary piping you have on yours. It CONSTANTLY got stuck sparges/ slow recirculation rates/cavitation/etc. because the pipe just couldn't suck enough wort through to keep up.

It wasn't my false bottom, it wasn't my crush, it was the ID of the piping. Changing that (along with the looser crush) literally fixed my recirculation issues.

Just something to think about/consider. I feel your pain though...it's so frustrating to have to constantly be tinkering/thinking/wondering...is this going to fix the problem? No? Ok...well how about this. Keep going though. Cheers mate!

EDIT: Found this...http://www.brewershardware.com/1-Tri-Clover-Tri-Clamp-Style-Pickup-Tube.html might be of assistance if you figure it's the diptube.

 

[TexasWine]

Yesterday I brewed a belgian quad with a grain bill of 19 pounds and while it wasn't completely stuck I again had to reduce the flow to a trickle.

My experience has been that I always have to pinch back the flow, even with my little 24v DC pump. As long as you're moving the water and your temp is holding steady at that flow rate, I guess I don't see an issue with this.

But, if you want to try some things, did you let the mash rest for 10 or more minutes before starting the pump? Did you ease into the flow, gradually increasing it over the course if several minutes?

 

[krock21]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I haven't tried any of them yet, but I'll hopefully be doing another brew in the next couple of weeks to test them out. I'll report back here with my findings.

 

[blizz81]

Just to update the ledger re: recirc back into the BIAB bag + conditioning grain, I did widen from 0.028" to 0.0385" on the last brew. I had adjusted down to 75% brewhouse efficiency over the last handful of batches. Switched BKs, burner, and had to get a new 6.5gal ferm recently, so not 100% on volume quite yet (eyeball between 5gal & 6gal notches), but seemed to be at 76% on this first batch.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

My experience has been that I always have to pinch back the flow, even with my little 24v DC pump. As long as you're moving the water and your temp is holding steady at that flow rate, I guess I don't see an issue with this.

But, if you want to try some things, did you let the mash rest for 10 or more minutes before starting the pump? Did you ease into the flow, gradually increasing it over the course if several minutes?

I was directed to this thread but got off track with pumps and head pressure. I continued to read posts to get caght up on this issue. Well a week ago I did my first batch in my E-BIAB system. I took your advice and tried the .04 mill setting and ran my grains through twice. I waited 10 minutes to circulate and all was fine. I use a homemade spray tree out of copper tubing above the bag. See picture. I had my numbers run by pricelessbrewing and I got an 88% conversion efficiency which he thought was a little low. This weekend I did my second batch and did a .03 grind run through twice. This time I used just a tube spraying into the mash. See picture. I also skipped the 10 minute wait. At about the twenty minute mark had the same problem being discussed. After stirring twice over the next 10 minutes the problem was over and circulated for the rest of the mash time with no problens. Maybe too many changes but was trying to get a better efficiency first and deal with cir problems later. Maybe another batch this weekend. Will post results.

 

[TexasWine]

I was directed to this thread but got off track with pumps and head pressure. I continued to read posts to get caght up on this issue. Well a week ago I did my first batch in my E-BIAB system. I took your advice and tried the .04 mill setting and ran my grains through twice. I waited 10 minutes to circulate and all was fine. I use a homemade spray tree out of copper tubing above the bag. See picture. I had my numbers run by pricelessbrewing and I got an 88% conversion efficiency which he thought was a little low. This weekend I did my second batch and did a .03 grind run through twice. This time I used just a tube spraying into the mash. See picture. I also skipped the 10 minute wait. At about the twenty minute mark had the same problem being discussed. After stirring twice over the next 10 minutes the problem was over and circulated for the rest of the mash time with no problens. Maybe too many changes but was trying to get a better efficiency first and deal with cir problems later. Maybe another batch this weekend. Will post results.

Yup, 88% is low. How long did you mash? Do you know what your pH was (measured or predicted)?

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Yup, 88% is low. How long did you mash? Do you know what your pH was (measured or predicted)?

I mashed for 60 minutes. Being this was my first all grain and doing it BIAB went from the recipe for all grain. Had read earlier post on BIAB were they mashed for 90. Was about ready to ask this but so much reading of recent guys are trying to cut this down so I'm not sure what is right or best. Like I said started with a .04 mill rate.

I did not test the pH. Wasn't sure I needed to at this time. I'm in the country with a well so I know I'm not dealing with treated water from the city. Is thissomething that I should test once to know what my water is or does this change with water and type of grains/mash?

Thanks for your input. A lot I need to get down.

 

[doug293cz]

I mashed for 60 minutes. Being this was my first all grain and doing it BIAB went from the recipe for all grain. Had read earlier post on BIAB were they mashed for 90. Was about ready to ask this but so much reading of recent guys are trying to cut this down so I'm not sure what is right or best. Like I said started with a .04 mill rate.

I did not test the pH. Wasn't sure I needed to at this time. I'm in the country with a well so I know I'm not dealing with treated water from the city. Is thissomething that I should test once to know what my water is or does this change with water and type of grains/mash?

Thanks for your input. A lot I need to get down.

Well water typically has higher mineral content than surface run off water. So, you should probably get your water tested so that you know what's in it, and can compensate where necessary. Since BIABers tend you use more mash water than traditional brewers, the effects of water alkalinity can be magnified, thus increasing the importance of modifying the water.

I suspect your well should have fairly consistent mineral content vs. time. To be sure, you could have a sample tested at the end of your rainy season, and a second sample tested at the end of your dry season.

Brew on

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Well water typically has higher mineral content than surface run off water. So, you should probably get your water tested so that you know what's in it, and can compensate where necessary. Since BIABers tend you use more mash water than traditional brewers, the effects of water alkalinity can be magnified, thus increasing the importance of modifying the water.

I suspect your well should have fairly consistent mineral content vs. time. To be sure, you could have a sample tested at the end of your rainy season, and a second sample tested at the end of your dry season.

Brew on

Seeing the depth of the well is over 200' I would feel it's fairly consistent. What will I be looking for in the water test and the range it should be within? I have test strips for our hot tub that shows Ph, alkalinity and TDS. Would that tell me?

 

[doug293cz]

Seeing the depth of the well is over 200' I would feel it's fairly consistent. What will I be looking for in the water test and the range it should be within? I have test strips for our hot tub that shows Ph, alkalinity and TDS. Would that tell me?

The test strips aren't going to be much help. pH of the mash is important, but counter intuitively the pH of the water matters little. It's the alkalinity of the water that has the biggest affect on mash pH. Most folks get a brewing water report from Ward Labs. Besides hardness and alkalinity it gives concentrations of minerals of interest for brewers:

Calcium
Magnesium
Sodium
Iron (should be less than 0.1 ppm)
Bicarbonate
Sulfate (often reported as sulfur)
Chloride (not Chlorine)
​

When you have the water report, you can plug the numbers into Bru'nWater (or another water calculator) along with your grain bill to estimate your mash pH, and calculate adjustments when necessary. Many brewers find the predictions of Bru'nWater to be very accurate, but if you want to be really sure about mash pH, you need to get a GOOD pH meter and actually measure the pH. Lots more information in the Brew Science area of HBT.

Brew on

 

[gotbags-10]

May have been talked about already but if I have a stuck mash can I just stir it to break it up as long as I'm using the bag? Or would it release to much sediment?

 

[wilserbrewer]

May have been talked about already but if I have a stuck mash can I just stir it to break it up as long as I'm using the bag? Or would it release to much sediment?

Yes, stirring is likely the best way to free a stuck flow. I wouldn't be concerned with sediment passing the bag.

 

[gotbags-10]

Ha that's funny! I was literally opening a bag from Brian that I just got in as he was replying to my question.

 

[TexasWine]

May have been talked about already but if I have a stuck mash can I just stir it to break it up as long as I'm using the bag? Or would it release to much sediment?

As @wilserbrewer said, it'll work. But for me it was always a temporary fix. It'd eventually stick again.

The worse brew day I ever had was an oatmeal stout. I was almost in the fetal position, crying in the corner, by the end of the mash.

 

[The_Bishop]

Ok, question for you all:

I'm building an eBIAB kettle/controller. It will be replacing the kettle and induction burner I'm currently using.

My chiller is mounted underneath the stand. It's a copper convoluted Zchiller.

When you guys recirculate, are you going through the chiller, as well? Or do you connect the chiller afterwards? I'm concerned with the heat loss of the chiller causing a large temperature difference between the kettle outlet (where I'm planning to install my probe) and the return, which will be in the kettle lid. Would I be better served by having a hose to run right back to the kettle return, then swapping to the chiller at the end?

Currently, the only time I use the pump is at the end of the boil, for recirculating the wort through the chiller at the end of the boil.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

you don't connect to the chiller until your ready to cool down

 

[TexasWine]

you don't connect to the chiller until your ready to cool down

Actually, I'd recommend circulating boiling wort through it for the last 10 minutes of the boil. Get everything good and sanitized.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

correct

 

[The_Bishop]

I'll usually circulate through the chiller and all associated tubing for a few minutes after flameout without the chill water running to sanitize everything. I was just curious as to weather anyone left the chiller in the loop while mashing. I didn't think so, was just curious.

 

[rzwahr]

I wanted to give you guys an update on this. I finally did what I intended to do with this which was 1) to create a home-made COFI system out of Loc-Line and b) switch from BIABag to BIABasket. I picked up a #400 mesh screen basket from Chad at ArborFab - fantastic product and couldn't recommend more. I've been through one brew session so far with it as well as my homemade COFI/BrewBoss setup and I have to say, it's literally set it and forget it. Fully open flow from Chugger, zero recirc issues. Probably the best beer I've brewed yet.

Note: I did modify the orange sections by drilling 3 holes in addition to the single nozzle that comes stock on each segment. The additional holes I drilled in each section at 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock. I used the default hole as my guide to drill straight through to the 6 o'clock position and eyeballed the 3 o'clock - 9 o'clock holes.

Figure 1: Camlock attached to my kettle lid to allow attachment of recirc from Chugger to Loc-Line inside kettle

Figure 2: Shows what the COFI looks like underneath the kettle lid

VIDEO Strike water recirculating through the LocLine COFI

VIDEO Mash recirculating through the LocLine COFI

I am using the Bayou Classic 62qt with steamer basket also. I recirc straight into the top of the mash using a chugger pump.

I have had what you describe happen on occasion, although i can catch it pretty fast due to the fact that I have a sight glass on the side of my kettle. When I see the liquid level dropping I can usually solve the issue by either stirring the mash or by backing off on the flow rate using the ball valve I have mounted on the outflow of the pump. When stirring, I have noticed that if I brush along the sides of the bag/basket as I am stirring that seems to have a pretty rapid impact, vs just stirring in the middle and scraping the bottom of the bag. I'm pretty sure my bag is just getting clogged with particulate.

I was doing some googling on it last night and came across this blog post, which sounds almost exactly like the problem I had been having.

I have reached out to Chad at arborfab.com as he recommended for a quote on a mod to the strainer basket. Same idea as what @schiersteinbrewing was referring to above, just using the upper "collar" of the strainer basket if you will. Here's a pic of what I am referring to, although this one looks quite a bit shorter than mine since the blogger was using the 10 gallon BC with steamer basket.

Depending on the cost, I may just elect to have a basket made without use of the collar of the existing steamer basket, as that may prove cost ineffective due to having to ship the steamer basket to him to modify. Might be cheaper to just have him make the basket from scratch.

Looks like Utah Biodiesel Supply does pretty much the same stuff, but since I am in NC it is cheaper to ship from Michigan (ArborFab) than from Utah.

My goal here is to increase flow rate through the grainbed to minimize stratification and to also be able to walk away from the thing without it ending up in disaster.

Currently, I use LocLine as a "sparge arm" to recirculate on top of the mash using just their standard kit and regular nozzles as seen in the first photo of my post. However, I just picked up their flow nozzle kit, which most folks are using as a circular pattern on top of the mash, as in this photo:

After thinking about it though, I believe what I am going to try is to make a COFI-type solution out of this, by straightening it and twisting the nozzles all the way down the length of it so I am getting a radial pattern all the way down. I would bulkhead the top of the line to the top of the kettle through the lid. Nice part about LocLine is you can add or remove segments as needed so if you had a lower liquid level on a given batch, you could simply modify the height of the spray portion so it stays under liquid, then use standard locline links to make up the difference between there and the exit from the kettle. Kind of like this:

I plan to play around with this on my next brew day and will report back the results. If that doesn't do anything or makes no difference, I can always adjust it back into the loop orientation as above and go from there.

**EDIT** - if you are interested in LocLine and want to learn more about it go to their website and check it out - most of these items can be found on Amazon. Here is a link to the spec page for the materials it is manufactured from (Standard Hose and Fittings), at the bottom it states that it is FDA food safe. Had someone PM me about that.

 

[pennengr]

Looks great. Thanks for the follow-up. I drilled out my Loc-Line for yesterday's brew after seeing this.

 

[rzwahr]

Awesome, let me know how it works out

 

[jackyl]

I wanted to give you guys an update on this. I finally did what I intended to do with this which was 1) to create a home-made COFI system out of Loc-Line and b) switch from BIABag to BIABasket. I picked up a #400 mesh screen basket from Chad at ArborFab - fantastic product and couldn't recommend more. I've been through one brew session so far with it as well as my homemade COFI/BrewBoss setup and I have to say, it's literally set it and forget it. Fully open flow from Chugger, zero recirc issues. Probably the best beer I've brewed yet.

Note: I did modify the orange sections by drilling 3 holes in addition to the single nozzle that comes stock on each segment. The additional holes I drilled in each section at 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock. I used the default hole as my guide to drill straight through to the 6 o'clock position and eyeballed the 3 o'clock - 9 o'clock holes.

Figure 1: Camlock attached to my kettle lid to allow attachment of recirc from Chugger to Loc-Line inside kettle

Figure 2: Shows what the COFI looks like underneath the kettle lid

VIDEO Strike water recirculating through the LocLine COFI

VIDEO Mash recirculating through the LocLine COFI

That's fantastic. I have been using a 400 micron basket from Arbor Fab for a year or so and have been really happy with it, but have been thinking about some way to recirculate the mash, especially with automation / a PID likely in my future. I'm pretty sure I am going to copy this exactly.

Are you still happy with it? Anything you would change in retrospect?

E: I am using 25 gallon pots to do 10 or 15 gallon batches although 15 is a tight fit - I'm debating adding a second 25 gallon pot to maybe be able to do up to 1bbl batches, in which case recirculation would be essential.

 

[ReverseMonk]

I'm working through the final design and build of my new eBIAB recirc system and I have learned a lot from this thread. I've been full volume mashing for 2-3 years now, I love it, and I'd never go back to a traditional 3 vessel system. So, from that aspect, I feel much more comfortable (and somewhat know what to expect) ditching the second vessel and going straight BIAB.

Sounds like a relatively coarse crush (.040 - .050) along with keeping the mash moving are the two main keys to good efficiency in this type of system. Any parting shots from you guys using the "COFI" type center recirc manifolds? I'm headed in that direction (either center inlet or whirlpool arm that can pull double duty, but leaning toward center inlet) and just curious if anyone would do anything different at this point.

 

[pennengr]

The main thing that I'm changing is my crush (after using a very fine crush with BIAB for a couple of years). I just bought a grain mill and will being doing my first coarse crush batch tomorrow. Aside from that, I've been very happy with my system.