Got my first infection - why?

[bbriscoe]

I did my first all grain and probably my 7th or 8th batch overall about 3 months ago - it was a cream ale. I kept it for several weeks in the ale pail, then 2 more in the better bottle carboy. It came out really clear, just tastes sour. The LHBS guy tasted it and confirmed it was infected. So why did it get infected?

Its not my bottles since every one of them tastes the same. And I seem to recall the same off-taste when in the primary fermentor when I snuck a taste. So hopefully not the better bottle. It would have to be post boil, right? Because anything left over in the mash tun would get killed in the boil?

Or could it be because my fermentation got too warm? The LHBS guy mentioned that as a possibility. With outside temps 110 degrees all month, I'm not sure I can keep my fermentor under 75 all the time.

Anyway I got a new siphon hose and some cleaner with iodine.

 

[phenry]

I can't tell you why your batch got infected, but you're right infection can only occur post boil.

If I was in your position I would go ahead and replace all plastic/rubber equipment that touches your wort/beer. No reason in chancing another infection on your next batch.

 

[Wakadaka]

Did you crush your grain at home? That can cause lacto bacillus or something to get into the air, and then in your fermenter and infect it.

Did you add any non boiled water to the fermenter? I think that is the reason for my recent infections.

 

[Shaneoco1981]

How can crushing your grain at home cause lacto to get into your wort?

 

[bbriscoe]

I can't tell you why your batch got infected, but you're right infection can only occur post boil.

If I was in your position I would go ahead and replace all plastic/rubber equipment that touches your wort/beer. No reason in chancing another infection on your next batch.

You would actually throw away your better bottle and ale pail after 1 infection? Those are expensive. Can't they just be cleaned?

 

[ryan0914]

Is it noticeably sour. If so I may not be lacto. In my experience lacto does take a little while before you actually start to notice it. It could be a wild yeast of some kind and you could of picked it up when you transferred to your better bottle.
One way to avoid any extra contamination is just not to transfer. I almost never transfer into secondary and my beers all come out pretty clear. On your next one you might want to try fermenting in your better bottle rather than transfer and take the extra chance of getting something in it. Also if you sanitize well infections shouldn't transfer over in better bottles just change out your soft plastics if that's for sure you know what you have, but even then you might still be ok.

 

[Wakadaka]

How can crushing your grain at home cause lacto to get into your wort?

Don't know if that is true or not, I get my grains shipped already crushed, but I have read it on here several times. some people say to crush in a different room, or even a day or two before you plan to brew.

And is it true that better bottles won't carry infections? Or at least not as much of a risk as plastic buckets?

 

[ryan0914]

well yes it is true that your grain does carry lacto because one way to make your own lacto starter is to throw some grain into some warm wort. Even then he shouldn't still have the dust in the air a couple weeks after he brewed it, or even if he brewed that day he it wouldn't really be a problem if he sanitized the better bottle. Like I said before it should of taken a lot longer for the lacto to take hold and be noticeable.

 

[phenry]

You would actually throw away your better bottle and ale pail after 1 infection? Those are expensive. Can't they just be cleaned?

Ale pail? Yes. That's about $15 tops. A typical 5 gallon batch that I brew costs more than that. I don't have any better bottles, so I can't say for sure if I'd cross that bridge when I came to it.

I mean you could nuke everything with pretty highly concentrated bleach, but I'd still replace your siphon tubing regardless.

 

[VegasBrew]

Bleach your plastics and check your fermenter bucket for scratches, if none your fine. I don`t know why but every cream ale I make tastes HORRIBLE, sour taste nasty smell but I lager it for 2 weeks and it is great....just my 2 cents

 

[bbriscoe]

No, I didn't crush my own grain. Could high fermentation temps cause the infection?

 

[phenry]

No, I didn't crush my own grain. Could high fermentation temps cause the infection?

High temperatures shouldn't cause infection on their own, but they will cause certain off flavors.

 

[COLObrewer]

It sounds like you were not using an iodine based sanitizer, this is one possible cause.

 

[Hang Glider]

And...while this does not answer your specific infection problem, do try to control your temps. 65F is a better target for most ales than 75F.

Higher temps certainly do contribute off flavors.

 

[Germelli1]

Honestly I am not convinced it is actually an infection. Young beer can give off a sour apple/cidery flavor that will disappear with time/conditioning. This flavor is dependant of A LOT of things: yeast strains, beer style (more flavorered styles can mask it more effectively), yeast stress, etc...but the most important variable is fermentation temps. I would give it some time in bottles/kegs and see what happens!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Honestly I am not convinced it is actually an infection. Young beer can give off a sour apple/cidery flavor that will disappear with time/conditioning. This flavor is dependant of A LOT of things: yeast strains, beer style (more flavorered styles can mask it more effectively), yeast stress, etc...but the most important variable is fermentation temps. I would give it some time in bottles/kegs and see what happens!

Agreed. The flavors you describe sound more like beer that was fermented too warm. Those can be sour, cider-y, have warm alcohol flavors, etc.
Do you have visible signs of infection? Something odd floating in the bottles? Was there anything strange on top of the BB before bottling? If not, it's more likely just off flavor from warm temps.
Try aging them for a bit. If it's an infection, it'll get worse. If it isn't, the off flavors will mellow with time.

 

[JoePro]

Did you by any chance overnight mash?

 

[bbriscoe]

No, didn't overnight mash. No there wasn't anything nasty on top that I can recall, but the guy at the LHBS smelled it and said it was an infection. Then he tasted it and said it definitely was so. I have an Imperial IPA kit ready to brew, but its still 110 degrees here for another month and I can only get my house so cool. What should I do with it?

 

[timm747]

No, didn't overnight mash. No there wasn't anything nasty on top that I can recall, but the guy at the LHBS smelled it and said it was an infection. Then he tasted it and said it definitely was so. I have an Imperial IPA kit ready to brew, but its still 110 degrees here for another month and I can only get my house so cool. What should I do with it?

Send it to me!!!

 

[Germelli1]

The fact that your local home brew store employee said it might be infected since "fermentation temps were too warm" make me lose all faith in his advice.

Let it sit in bottles and age. I honestly think you just fermented it too warm and the yeast threw off a lot of off flavors

 

[dwarven_stout]

The fact that your local home brew store employee said it might be infected since "fermentation temps were too warm" make me lose all faith in his advice.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about.

How can crushing your grain at home cause lacto to get into your wort?

Have you ever left your mash tun overnight before cleaning it? There's a load of lacto and other bugs on malted grain, and if you aren't careful crushing you'll get airborne dust everywhere.

 

[JoePro]

The fact that your local home brew store employee said it might be infected since "fermentation temps were too warm" make me lose all faith in his advice.

Let it sit in bottles and age. I honestly think you just fermented it too warm and the yeast threw off a lot of off flavors

This a million times +1

 

[eastoak]

You would actually throw away your better bottle and ale pail after 1 infection? Those are expensive. Can't they just be cleaned?

i wouldn't throw away the better bottle or pail, a thorough washing with hot water and oxy clean, dry them, then hit it with a sanitizer. do it twice if you want. the hoses i would probably throw away.

 

[passedpawn]

Karma. You know what you did.

 

[jonmohno]

What was your conditioning temp in the bottle?

 

[flabyboy]

I agree that you should let it sit. It probably just needs to age. You will probably get some off flavors with the high temps during fermentation. What yeast did you use? I would recommend making a Saison or farmhouse ale while it's that warm out. Many of the yeast used for these beers do their best work at 75-80 degrees

 

[jonmohno]

if you use a regular ale yeast not belgian, you should keep under 70, thats your problem.give them time they will mellow but stick to a mid 60 temp for ale .

yeast.
You fermented too high, sounds like you dont even really know how high it got. Pay attention, use a swamp cooler or stick it in a basement in a swamp coolor or make amends.Temps during fermentation are critical to the outcome of your beer. period.Stay within range and learn what effects you get at certain temps.Otherwise learn the hard way, research is as important as experience. your not infected and you have been misinformed by your lhbs

 

[GoHawks]

Can you put all your tubing in the oven at 160*? Or do you guys think that would be too hot for the plastic tubing? You would have to get creative because you could not put the tubing directly on a metal oven rack.

I think this would work. Mashing is in that temperature range. This would clean the tubing. I'm not sure I would do this with a bucket though.

...or am I just crazy?

microwaving the tubing may work too. Especially if you got it a little wet first.